Did CDPR really have to dumb-down this game so much?

[Cocadaly]

Did CDPR really have to dumb-down this game so much?

It takes away depth and fun - and for what? Accessibility? Appealing to the lowest common denominator for a larger profit margin? Maybe CDPR couldn't handle balancing their own game (and in many regards still can't)? So many cards have been ruined. One such example is Old Speartip. This and this are his current iterations and this is what he used to be. The mechanics and synergy were more interesting than what we have now; what we have now are two mechanically very dull cards with next to no interaction.

 

[devivre]

The problem of the old version was that - even though the concept was pretty interesting - people rarely played it. Especially because the whole switching back and forth between two cards sometimes was very problematic for the person who played that card. And often it didn't get you many points.

 

[Khreygond]

Especially because the whole switching back and forth between two cards sometimes was very problematic for the person who played that card. And often it didn't get you many points.

Disagree about that bit it was amazing in weather decks as it destroyed enemies that you brought down to 1 Strength, then slept back, boosting your allies again and due to the lack of agility, it could do so many times. Especially since Skellige was all the rage back then. It completely destroyed Queensguard for example However yes, with the change in weather and the agility, people did rarely play it. But I still prefer the old ability by a great margin.

 

[Iuliandrei]

The problem of the old version was that - even though the concept was pretty interesting - people rarely played it. Especially because the whole switching back and forth between two cards sometimes was very problematic for the person who played that card. And often it didn't get you many points.

There are many cards which people "rarely" play them, yet they don't get a complete redesign.
Secondly there are many tweaks that would have made it more playable and user-friendly while also keeping its identity.

But overall i don't think Old Speartip and whatever handful of cards OP can cherrypick are enough to claim the game is "dumbed down", not just a bit but SO MUCH.

 

[nunqmuo]

There are many cards which people "rarely" play them, yet they don't get a complete redesign.
Secondly there are many tweaks that would have made it more playable and user-friendly while also keeping its identity.

But overall i don't think Old Speartip and whatever handful of cards OP can cherrypick are enough to claim the game is "dumbed down", not just a bit but SO MUCH.

Im fully agree with OP in general. Its not about Old Speartip. You need to look back at Closed Beta. Most of the concepts and interactions were cut out.

Right now Gwent is all about proactive points-generating and thats it. Engines and control are useless.

The Gwent is a Checkers but it should be a Chess.

 

[Warrikon]

gwent should be more than chess

 

[Nidmorr]

Disagree about that bit it was amazing in weather decks as it destroyed enemies that you brought down to 1 Strength, then slept back, boosting your allies again and due to the lack of agility, it could do so many times. Especially since Skellige was all the rage back then. It completely destroyed Queensguard for example However yes, with the change in weather and the agility, people did rarely play it. But I still prefer the old ability by a great margin.

What's the point of having an interesting ability if it's rarely played and doesn't fit with the rest of the game (weather changes, agility)

 

[Snake_Foxhounder]

That's exactly why the old Old Speartip was fun. You either risk running it for nothing or get great value out of him, especially with how row stacking seems a thing with some factions. It was a great card.

I agree with the OP that the game should go back to being more tactical. We've gotten more and more away from "two armies clashing". Especially this meta, where the goal is to just plop down as many points as possible, without regards to tactics.

 

[sfruzz]

What's the point of having an interesting ability if it's rarely played and doesn't fit with the rest of the game (weather changes, agility)

Better to have an interesting ability rarely played, than an uninteresting ability no one plays.

Less than 5% of the Unseen Decks use Old Speartip. And Unseen Elder is below 1% of the meta...
So if the purpose of the change was to have the card gain popularity, they failed.
If the purpose of the change was to have the card get an interesting ability, according to many players, they also failed.
They only simplified the design of the card, dumbing it down.

 

[Iuliandrei]

Im fully agree with OP in general. Its not about Old Speartip. You need to look back at Closed Beta. Most of the concepts and interactions were cut out.

Do you really? and can you list those interactions? so we can clearly state that you're objectively wrong about it?

Also you and other here make the same mistake, that of conflating card design with gameplay, to me it's laughable that you think a redeisgn/some tweaks on a few unplayable cards is what defines the meta now and that's the reason the game is less tactical.

 

[sfruzz]

Do you really? and can you list those interactions? so we can clearly state that you're objectively wrong about it?

Dimun Light Longship had back in the days a strengthening effect and the “Regressing” tag. When the card would go to the graveyard it would have it strength set back to its base value. To avoid that you could combo it with Heymaey Herbalist and Adrenaline Rush to have it stick to the board for the next round. That card design contributed in defining a niche archetype.

Trollololo had a growing armor effect to it. The more you would leave it unchecked the more potential value it would gain. Still it would require you to play an additional card, say the Kaedwani Cavalry, to convert armor in points. As an opponent you could plan to leave the round when Trollololo would be heavy armored, counting your opponent to burn an additional card to convert the armor in strength.

Also you and other here make the same mistake, that of conflating card design with gameplay, to me it's laughable that you think a redeisgn/some tweaks on a few unplayable cards is what defines the meta now and that's the reason the game is less tactical.

Having longstanding effects on cards encouraged players to run cards such as Dimeritium Shackles and the old Cleaver. Due to the presence of Trollololo, Dimun Light Longship a mechanics such as lock / unlock was relevant to the game. When compared to Close Beta we lost not only the promote / demote shenanigans (which might have been for the best) but also most of lock / unlock interactions, row uniqueness and many interesting card ability (Drummond Shieldmaid, Morenn, Trollololo,…)

When was the last time you saw someone run Dimeritium Shackles and Adrenaline Rush? Not to mention Quen.
The game feel less, less tactical to me.

 

[twinkiegorilla]

Just in GENERAL it seems at least 80% of the cards have been rendered useless by the U-turn CDPR took. I don't get it. If the point was "fuck everything but the monthly exploit meta" then they succeeded. If the point was literally anything else...they failed horribly.

 

[Iuliandrei]

Having longstanding effects on cards encouraged players to run cards such as Dimeritium Shackles and the old Cleaver. Due to the presence of Trollololo, Dimun Light Longship a mechanics such as lock / unlock was relevant to the game. When compared to Close Beta we lost not only the promote / demote shenanigans (which might have been for the best) but also most of lock / unlock interactions, row uniqueness and many interesting card ability (Drummond Shieldmaid, Morenn, Trollololo,…) When was the last time you saw someone run Dimeritium Shackles and Adrenaline Rush? Not to mention Quen. The game feel less, less tactical to me.

The first part just falls under the handful of cherrypicked examples and DID NOT EVEN DEFINE THE GAME, i was talking about in my first post. Yeah some cards changed and not for the better, i am aware of that, except these changes are NOT the cause for how the game is played today.
Each of you are projecting your personal dissatisfaction with the game as the cause, while talking about different things but agreeing that the game isn't how it used to.

Secondly the reason you don't need to use locks to deal with your Light Longship is because you can instantly kill it with Viper Witchers. Why lock something which you can easily kill? Control pretty much killed the use of engines while defeating itself in the process.

 

[dragoonzen]

I do not like changing muster cards for all factions to play the same way when SK and NR muster cards has no synergy. ST elves muster cards have a movement synergy and the ST dwarves muster card can be pull by dwarve agitator. Same with monster muster card being pull by consume but SK and NR not so much. Bring back the old SK shieldmaiden.

 

[Maerd]

When was the last time you saw someone run Dimeritium Shackles and Adrenaline Rush?

I run Adrenaline Rush on GM level. I put it on Greatswords. Works really well. Admittedly, it's possible to use Adrenaline Rush only in the decks that are able to produce very high tempo plays to compensate for such zero tempo cards.

Trollololo had a growing armor effect to it. The more you would leave it unchecked the more potential value it would gain.

That was way too powerful. But yeah, they should have made it grow every two rounds then it would have been more balanced, instead of making it boring point slap card.

Dimun Light Longship had back in the days a strengthening effect and the “Regressing” tag. When the card would go to the graveyard it would have it strength set back to its base value. To avoid that you could combo it with Heymaey Herbalist and Adrenaline Rush to have it stick to the board for the next round. That card design contributed in defining a niche archetype.

The Light Longships are very strong now. One of the reasons is that can be easily resurrected in combo with Captains and Corsairs. Just put one next to Wild Boar of the Sea and you'll get super-longship for your last round play.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

They really need to redesign some cards in my opinion. The archetype that makes the most sense is spies. It has almost perfect consistency, finishers, removal, you name it. Multiple bronze, silver and gold cards to support it too. They NEED to add more flavor into already existing archetypes if they want the game to live past 2018. I love Gwent but I would be lying if I didn't agree that they're removing too many interesting ideas and mechanics. Like look at Skellige for example, they lost all their interesting archetypes like Discard, Queensguard and Self-Wounding. It's sad really. CDPR needs to realize this.

 

[sfruzz]

I run Adrenaline Rush on GM level. I put it on Greatswords. Works really well. Admittedly, it's possible to use Adrenaline Rush only in the decks that are able to produce very high tempo plays to compensate for such zero tempo cards.

I couldn't make it work, too many scorch effect made me regret investing in that sort of carryover. But I'm happy to hear someone on the ladder still uses Adrenaline Rush!

Secondly the reason you don't need to use locks to deal with your Light Longship is because you can instantly kill it with Viper Witchers. Why lock something which you can easily kill? Control pretty much killed the use of engines while defeating itself in the process.

True. And that's for me is a game-defining aspects: a core mechanic (lock-unlock) is rendered usesless.

 

[Maerd]

I couldn't make it work, too many scorch effect made me regret investing in that sort of carryover. But I'm happy to hear someone on the ladder still uses Adrenaline Rush!

The trick against scorches is to have a Light Longship with higher point value near it (just wait it to become such). The longship boosts faster than the Greatsword, so no matter how strengthened your greatsword is, the longship will eventually overtake it, as soon it happens put AR on the greatsword. If you had a long round, and your greatsword is way too big, and you have to get rid of AR in the round 2, then use a mandrake on your light longship. Use herbalists to guarantee ARs (sometimes they brick in round 3 but not that often, but often you can win even with a brick in hand). If they scorch, they scorch the longship, which can be easily resurrected with captains/corsairs. If they manage 2 scorches, it means that you're safe to resurrect it with Priestess of Freya right away in round 3, there is no way a competitive deck has more of those. And run black blood in your deck too. In case you're out of priestesses, you can just eat then hugely buffed greatsword with a ghoul in round 3.

 

[Hamood-Shinobi]

i mean it was bad anyway