Did Cyberpunk 2077 missed point of cyberpunk genre? (spoilers)

[Wenceslaus]

Why do you think they didnt miss point?

Because I do not think this is meant literally, everytime. More like the scope of things.
It's rather that you can't beat corporations. Not even with a nuke. You can merely make your life better—but nothing is guaranteed. Even if you are good at it.

Six months. At the start, V has two weeks.
Obviously, that is not victory. Not even close to it. But it is not death. Nothing to turn your nose up at in that situation. Regardles whatnever DLC brings*, this is not death**. It is end of the game yes, but not Vs. Not yet.***

And even if it is Vs end.
I do not think that games are "wrong medium" for grim endings. Or Cyberpunk the wrong genre for tragedy.

Also, there are the other things mentioned makes the game Cyberpunk to me even if the 6 months were "miss".

*I actually hope DLC won't alter the endings. Not because the CP but because I think it's wrong thing to do.
** Yes I know—unless you choose so.
*** As mentioned, there are mentions of BioDynes nanites, the printing tech etc.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

It's the wrong journey for a grim ending. You can have grim endings in almost all genres, if the journey supports it.

This is not a question of genre.

 

[Motsie]

It's the wrong journey for a grim ending. You can have grim endings in almost all genres, if the journey supports it.

This is not a question of genre.

This makes no sense at all. How does a journey have to align properly for a "grim" ending?

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

This makes no sense at all. How does a journey have to align properly for a "grim" ending?

It's simple. If a journey centers around saving yourself - especially if it's the only motivation - an ending where the protagonist dies does not fit, because it is anticlimactic.
Imagine cast away ending with the protagonist dying of his infected molar.
The other way around. Imagine a termaminaly ill person with not chance of survival and who is on a quest for revenge surviving.
Imagine falling down ending with foster being arrested.

It does not really fit.

 

[R001c]

There's a lot more to the Cyberpunk genre than Mike Pondsmith. Everyone has and is entitled to their own opinions and ideas of what Cyberpunk(as a genre) is about. I liked Cyberpunk better when it was more of an on going argument than a genre. Also the last thing we need is a bunch of Cyberpunk Purist Divas coming in and telling us what we should all think and what is, or is not, Cyberpunk.

 

[Motsie]

because it is anticlimactic

That is entirely the point of a grim ending. Like, your entire premise for what is and isn't appropriate makes no sense when you explore mediums that explore darker topics: The Descent's EU ending. Or maybe something lighter like Inception where the whole journey is getting back to his family in the states, but the director leaves that feeling of uncertainty when he spins the totem.

 

[CS554]

In addition from video posted by Greski, here's something from Pondsmith himself:
“Cyberpunk was a warning, not an aspiration,” says Cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith.

Game executes that very well.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

That is entirely the point of a grim ending. Like, your entire premise for what is and isn't appropriate makes no sense when you explore mediums that explore darker topics: The Descent's EU ending. Or maybe something lighter like Inception where the whole journey is getting back to his family in the states, but the director leaves that feeling of uncertainty when he spins the totem.

Absolutely not.

A climax can very well be grim. A climax is the hight of the story. The point of resolution, the whole story build up to.

 

[Motsie]

Absolutely not.

A climax can very well be grim. A climax is the hight of the story. The point of resolution, the whole story build up to.

I feel like you would disagree with another person's own account of a dream they had. Your entire stance of the resolution is that it ends on some terrible note with no substance to begin with. I won't attempt to change your mind on this.

 

[HeCatchesWaves]

To me, it felt like a game about the decisions and consequences of suicide.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

I feel like you would disagree with another person's own account of a dream they had. Your entire stance of the resolution is that it ends on some terrible note with no substance to begin with. I won't attempt to change your mind on this.

Nope. I would not.
Stories however follow basic rules since the days we gathered around fires.

It's a classic three act survival story. Just without survival. The climax is when you enter arasaka tower. The hight of the tension is just before you plug into mikoshi or meet Yorinobu.
The resolution is the talk with Johnny and alt or hellman.

The resolution however, does not fit to the survival plot and is highly antickimactic, because of the missing resolution. The player achieved nothing. Remember. The destruction of arasaka or Yorinobu was never the goal - it was about survival. Sure. It is possible to not let V survive but that has to come with a realisation and deeper insight - a payoff. That's simply missing and lots of people feel empty after finishing the main story. That's a huge indication that the story did not work, unless it was the writers intent to make the player feel miserable.
Normally, you want people to replay or reread the story - this one does not do it, because it feels like a waste of time.

I dare say that some plots and twists dont really work in interactive media.

The plot of dragon age origins worked, because it was totally clear that the warden was doomed - sacrifice was the only logical outcome.

 

[CS554]

Stories however follow basic rules since the days we gathered around fires.

It's a classic three act survival story.

Nope.

Even classic fairy tales collected from authors were heavily altered to work in cultural context we know them from. Sleeping Beauty didn't ever woke from her sleep but still had a healthy baby in some versions of original folk story. Many were horror stories of their times but likely served purpose of educating kids from dangers, these from the eras when ability to read and write was uncommon. They were also sources of suspense and humor.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Nope.

Even classic fairy tales collected from authors were heavily altered to work in cultural context we know them from. Sleeping Beauty didn't ever woke from her sleep but still had a healthy baby in some versions of original folk story. Many were horror stories of their times but likely served purpose of educating kids from dangers, these from the eras when ability to read and write was uncommon. They were also sources of suspense and humor.

Emphasis on education.

Stories teaches valuable lessons.
This games lesson can be boiled down to: "don't fight the odds. Just bend over and it will be easier."

 

[CS554]

Emphasis on education.

Stories teaches valuable lessons.
This games lesson can be boiled down to: "don't fight the odds. Just bend over and it will be easier."

You definitely should watch the video linked in this topic.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

You definitely should watch the video linked in this topic.

Because it educates me on storytelling?
I read enough stories. Good and bad ones.

Iirc, it's the same video that states how deep this game really is. I an mkt interested, because this game makes the mistake of asking too many questions, without going deep into them or giving you the chance to question the question and answers.

 

[CS554]

Iirc, it's the same video that states how deep this game really is. I an mkt interested, because this game makes the mistake of asking too many questions, without going deep into them or giving you the chance to question the question and answers.

Look, I got the game I wanted, I wanted a game that goes into subject like this. I frankly didn't believe that game like this will ever be released.

Now you want a different game, but that's not a product that would interest me. Some things are mutually exclusive and amount of debate about that won't change anything.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Look, I got the game I wanted, I wanted a game that goes into subject like this. I frankly didn't believe that game like this will ever be released.

Now you want a different game, but that's not a product that would interest me. Some things are mutually exclusive and amount of debate about that won't change anything.

I don't want a different game. I want a game with a logical conclusion that does not need to break its own story and lore just to end it on a grim note.

Huge difference.

 

[CS554]

I don't want a different game. I want a game with a logical conclusion that does not need to break its own story and lore just to end it on a grim note.

Huge difference.

Yes and no. I'm not a developer. So what's I have to do with that. Nothing.

 

[Motsie]

The resolution however, does not fit to the survival plot and is highly antickimactic, because of the missing resolution. The player achieved nothing. Remember. The destruction of arasaka or Yorinobu was never the goal - it was about survival. Sure. It is possible to not let V survive but that has to come with a realisation and deeper insight - a payoff. That's simply missing and lots of people feel empty after finishing the main story. That's a huge indication that the story did not work, unless it was the writers intent to make the player feel miserable.

The payoff or realization isn't missing. You dismissed it because you don't like it. Which is just a point of different strokes for different folks.

The entire nature of Nightcity is summarized by the whole "most legends of Nightcity are all dead". The survival story arc is a surface level, reductive understanding of the story. V saving themselves can encompass elements that are conceptual to the human self: principles, morals, humanity, etc.

The endings aren't even cemented in their conclusions - but it's completely valid to think that you die anyways. Albeit it's weird to think that considering that against all odds you turned two weeks to live into six months to live. The only thing stopping the player here is a lack of imagination.

Normally, you want people to replay or reread the story - this one does not do it, because it feels like a waste of time.

That's funny, because it didn't stop me from playing the game or starting more playthroughs.

Honest question, since you've said it a million times before that you refunded this game. Did you do it after or before beating the game? This is important, because If the core gameplay loop (you know the main reason for playing most games) isn't inviting enough, then a happy ending to a story (which you dislike top to bottom), isn't going to really redeem it for you.

 

[mr.Boolean]

What is genre generally? I hope everyone understand that its collective term. It have some common recognisable signs, other is just writer imagination, everyone add something new, thats how every genre is evolve and expanding. There is no any some legalized potented book with binding rules. The claims about the CP2077 not fit the genre is most ridiculous on this forum.