Did The Witcher make you curious about Slavic mythology?

[krakuus]

Did The Witcher make you curious about Slavic mythology?

As Pole I feel kinda ashamed that I never realized how reach culture of my ancestors was before "Christ bringers" came to our lands. I feel it's wrong that nowadays even here in Poland hardly anybody got proper knowledge of slavic culture not to mention that for schools it seems to be taboo topic, I can't recall even one freakin lesson throughout my whole education period about it.


Anyway, how do you feel about it, did Witcher series make you at least a little bit curious of Slavic mythology ?

 

[ivashanko]

I already had a fairly decent grasp of Slavic mythology- truth be told this game doesn't partake in as much Slavic mythology as people think it does (it tends to be taken from a wide variety of different cultures, but is primarily based off of Tolkien). Part of that is inevitable- a great amount of lore was lost, mainly because much of it was never written down.

 

[Riven-Twain]

From my experiences with the series, many of the mythological and folklore references are not especially, nor exclusively Slavic. I recognise many European motifs, and rather a tendency towards Germanic and Celtic themes. (I study mediaeval European folklore and myth.) I attempted to locate some scholarly sources for Slavic lore in English, but came up practically empty-handed, so I'm still curious about that subject in general.

I already had a fairly decent grasp of Slavic mythology- truth be told this game doesn't partake in as much Slavic mythology as people think it does (it tends to be taken from a wide variety of different cultures, but is primarily based off of Tolkien). Part of that is inevitable- a great amount of lore was lost, mainly because much of it was never written down.

I'd be very interested to know where you got your grasp on Slavic mythology, and what myths are contained therein. While I agree that there are many broad cultural borrowings in the Witcher lore, I'm not entirely certain we can trace it all primarily back to Tolkien. (His prominence and influence as a Fantasy writer is indisputable, but he himself did not invent much of his material. He unified many, many small -- often obscure -- legendary and mythic references in mediaeval literature, refined them, and wove them into a coherent and elegant narrative, with an elaborate history. However, it is possible to trace Tolkien's sources, in most cases.) But, because of his unifying work, Tolkien becomes a convenient general citation of inspiration for modern High Fantasy. Sapkowski, to his great credit, seems to be well versed in European folktales and lore, legends, myths, and the Arthurian romances. I would suggest these as more pronounced influences on the series.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Why is that a taboo topic in Polish schools? I thought times of censorship were gone together with USSR collapse.

Anyway, I agree with @RivenII that Witcher combines many sources, not just from Slavic folklore and mythology, though it obviously has that too.

 

[dragonbird]

I'm not sure if "taboo" is the right word. I remember doing Greek and Roman mythology at school, but not a word on Celtic, Germanic, Briton... It just doesn't seem to hit the curriculum in a lot of countries.

Or maybe there's too much sex and gore in it

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

In depth study of folklore is usually not in the curriculum, unless there is some specialization in history and literature. I'd even say that folklore in general in many cases is simply not researched enough, let alone taught in schools.

In USSR and Soviet block, censorship was commonly forbidding many of such studies in schools, because culture was supposed to be "unified". Not only that, even historic research was suppressed, including archeology and field folklore expeditions. Because history and folklore of various peoples was not something the official machine wanted to bring to light as it often went against "the line of the party". That was gone with collapse of USSR, that's why I was surprised about that situation in Polish schools.

 

[Riven-Twain]

I'm not sure if "taboo" is the right word. I remember doing Greek and Roman mythology at school, but not a word on Celtic, Germanic, Briton... It just doesn't seem to hit the curriculum in a lot of countries.

Or maybe there's too much sex and gore in it

It's rather a hard question, as non-classical mythology is very often under-valued. However, in its undiluted form, even Classic Myth is rather rife with rape, murder, incest, cannibalism, and dismemberment. . . .

---------- Updated at 11:28 PM ----------

In depth study of folklore is usually not in the curriculum, unless there is some specialization in history and literature. I'd even say that folklore in general in many cases is simply not researched enough, let alone taught in schools.

Ay, it's usually reserved for University, but sometimes not even there. Here in the States, the programme at my school was laughable, as it was devoted mostly to 'modern' folklore and myth, id est, folklore compilation theories, and comics . . . .The curricula of various countries' education systems often still reflect their political priorities, but, we'll not go into those, here.

 

[gadrael]

In depth study of folklore is usually not in the curriculum, unless there is some specialization in history and literature. I'd even say that folklore in general in many cases is simply not researched enough, let alone taught in schools.

I think it is more the case. There are not so many sources about pre christian history of Poland, so this subject is more suited for academic discussions. In basic and high schools it was just few lessons with general informations. But I wouldn't call it taboo, I was interested in such subject and I could always ask my teacher about this, books were also aviable (I bought huge lexicon about slavic history in secondhand bookshop).

In USSR and Soviet block, censorship was commonly forbidding many of such studies in schools, because culture was supposed to be "unified". Not only that, even historic research was suppressed, including archeology and field folklore expeditions. Because history and folklore of various peoples was not something the official machine wanted to bring to light as it often went against "the line of the party". That was gone with collapse of USSR, that's why I was surprised about that situation in Polish schools.

Well, in Poland it was kinda different. We were the nation-state and history was very important subject (sometimes I think it was more important than it is now). Some things were censored, like Polish–Soviet War in 1920, Soviet invasion in 1939, but except that we were teached whole history of Poland and Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. As for folklor, yes, every kid was teached to speak common polish, and speaking dialect was "passe", but on other hand there were many folk bands, people used regional suits on special occasions etc.

 

[Riven-Twain]

There are not so many sources about pre christian history of Poland, so this subject is more suited for academic discussions. In basic and high schools it was just few lessons with general informations. But I wouldn't call it taboo, I was interested in such subject and I could always ask my teacher about this, books were also aviable (I bought huge lexicon about slavic history in secondhand bookshop).

Given the lack of pre-Christian material -- I assume the Polish monks didn't commit the elder myths to vellum, as the mediaeval Icelanders did -- I wonder if there are any references to the old gods in Polish historical texts, such as condemnations by churchmen, combating heathenism? I'm not in a position to check this myself, so I'm especially curious.

 

[gadrael]

Given the lack of pre-Christian material -- I assume the Polish monks didn't commit the elder myths to vellum, as the mediaeval Icelanders did -- I wonder if there are any references to the old gods in Polish historical texts, such as condemnations by churchmen, combating heathenism? I'm not in a position to check this myself, so I'm especially curious.

Wierzenia te są stosunkowo słabo udokumentowane w dokumentach pisanych, co jest wynikiem nawracania Słowian na chrześcijaństwo. Misjonarze, wspierani zbrojnie przez możnowładców zwalczali wcześniejszą religię, a ich zapiski stanowią większość znanych nam dziś źródeł wiedzy. Religia ta jest jedną z najmniej znanych religii ze względu na brak dokumentów z epoki przedchrześcijańskiej. Najstarszymi źródłami są: źródła ruskie dotyczące Słowian wschodnich (Słowo o wyprawie Igora z XII w.), Kronika biskupa Thietmara z Merseburga (ok. 1015), Kronika Helmolda (1167-1168), wzmianki Saxo Grammaticusa i Adama z Bremy.

These beliefs are relatively poorly documented in written documents, as a result of the conversion of the Slavs to Christianity. The missionaries, supported militarily by the lords opposed the earlier religion, and their records are the most of known sources of knowledge. This religion is one of the least-known religion due to lack of documents from the pre-Christian era. The oldest sources are the sources of Ruthenian for the Eastern Slavs (The Tale of Igor's Campaign of XII century.), Chronicles of Thietmar bishop of Merseburg (c. 1015), Chronicles of Helmold (1167-1168), mentions of Saxo Grammaticus and Adam of Bremen.

Well, christianization of Poland took from X to XV century, so I suppose there has to be many little records about pagans, but to get such things you would need someone with access to academical resources, internet is so full of trash that it's hard to find

 

[Riven-Twain]

Well, christianization of Poland took from X to XV century, so I suppose there has to be many little records about pagans, but to get such things you would need someone with access to academical resources, internet is so full of trash that it's hard to find

Very true, which is why I generally attempted to obtain critical scholarly texts. However, as it happens, I have a portion of Saxo Grammaticus, and a copy of Adam of Bremen in my own collection already, so I'll see what I can find there.

 

[wisielec]

Well, truth be told there are publications on slavic mythology.

just a few...

Christians really made sure the pagans converted. They were really heavy on sword and flame while educating. Then incorporating lots of traditional rituals to make it more manageable I would say. But it kind of unified slavic polish people later on.

 

[GuyNwah]

The world isn't so much taken off Tolkien as it is that Tolkien and Sapkowski had common sources. You are right in observing that the sources are diverse, though. There's Irish, Welsh, Arthurian, and yes, a heavy dose of pre-Christian Nordic and Slavic all stirred up until they react with each other.

The Slavic component is a high point for Westerners with no background in it. Slavic pagan myth, such as the rivalry between Perun and Veles, is distinctive and difficult to study, even for specialists, because so few records of it exist. But there are also more recent examples, such as the belief in vampires, werewolves, or rusalkas.

 

[Gen-R]

I'm interested in most European Mythology no matter where it's from, but admittedly I did not know much at all about Slavic mythology. The Witcher games definitely made me more aware of it, and since have started to read up on it. It's something that you never really hear a lot about, at least in North America, or not nearly as much as say Norse mythology.

 

[Riven-Twain]

I'm interested in most European Mythology no matter where it's from, but admittedly I did not know much at all about Slavic mythology. The Witcher games definitely made me more aware of it, and since have started to read up on it. It's something that you never really hear a lot about, at least in North America, or not nearly as much as say Norse mythology.

Even though almost our entire knowledge of Norse myth derives from just two texts, the so-called Eddas (that's about it for sources), they offer a considerable amount of narrative information, and a fairly coherent cosmology. However, our images and understanding of the Norse gods, and their functions, are still far from complete, as only Oðin (Odin), Loki, and Þor (Thor) receive the most attention. The fact that these texts present dialogues, and narratives, rather than merely catalogues of names -- although, there are enough of these in the texts as is -- has helped to widen the appeal of the myths. However, all academic analytics aside, people just seem to like Vikings in general.

If we had similarly well-preserved unique narratives of the heathen Slavic gods and heroes, the subject might enjoy a wider audience.

 

[GuyNwah]

Not exactly scholarly, but vividly imaginative: Alfons Mucha, the famous Art Nouveau commercial artist, devoted his later years to the monumental Slav Epic. Examples:

Slavs in their Original Homeland: Between the Turanian Whip and the Sword of the Goths

Tsar Simeon of Bulgaria: The Morning Star of Slavonic Literature

 

[Riven-Twain]

While not specifically Slavic, the mystery of the Wild Hunt has not gone unfelt in art, either:

The wild hunt: Åsgårdsreien (1872) by Peter Nicolai Arbo

Johann Wilhelm Cordes (1824-1869)

 

[coabre]

Coming from the South Slavic tribes here (Serbia) and it feels so refreshing to see something that has gone worldwide with even a reference in Slavic mythology in general. Although, I really can't remember that even us covered the Slavic myths, pantheon even, in detail back in the school. Usually, you don't learn much about it in history class (it is covered in general, the origin, the movement, the settling, the battles and the conversion to Christianity), but probably it is dissected more in academia- especially in language/history "majors". I think we covered more on Greek/Roman/Nordic mythology than we did on Slavic for some reason unknown.

But, for this part of the Balkans, you see a lot of Slavic (pagan) rituals being implemented into Christian customs (the main difference could be that Orthodox integrated local customs and stayed rather tribe/country based, as opposed to Catholic - this is my opinion). For example, Dodole/додоле, to put it bluntly, where women who danced and singed to summon the rain to the fields, and that custom still prevailed until 1960s, according to Macedonian sources. But one thing is to be noted, not all the Slavic tribes had this custom, so there are so many variations between the tribes itself. And most of the records were either vocal lore, or lost during the Turkish/Ottoman rule in these parts (you have to realize that they had ruled for 5 centuries (from XIV until XIX) although there are still debates was it 4 or 5 due to events that are irrelevant for this topic heh ).
And to answer the OP question, yes it did, it reminded me that I really need to refresh my own knowledge about it

 

[KOngo-Otto]

Did Witcher make you courios of Slavic mythology ?


Long story short: Yes. it did an i surely will get me some books about it.

 

[gadrael]

But, for this part of the Balkans, you see a lot of Slavic (pagan) rituals being implemented into Christian customs (the main difference could be that Orthodox integrated local customs and stayed rather tribe/country based, as opposed to Catholic - this is my opinion).

It's the same in Poland, few examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisanka_(Polish)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_week