difference between CDPR and RockStar..

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RDR2 for what it is its a masterpiece.
Cyberpunk 2077 for what it is is just a mediocre half made, rushed game.
It's your opinion and probably that of many players :)
For what it is, for me it's not a masterpiece, it's just "really good" but the gameplay is atrocious (like in all RockStar's games since GTA3).
I have more fun to play on Cyberpunk (my game's stats speak themself...). But it's just a matters of tast ;)
 
It's your opinion and probably that of many players :)
For what it is, for me it's not a masterpiece, it's just "really good" but the gameplay is atrocious (like in all RockStar's games since GTA3).
I have more fun to play on Cyberpunk (my game's stats speak themself...). But it's just a matters of tast ;)
It is a matter of opinion what you like.
I say RDR2 its a masterpiece(a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship.) for what it is, its very well done even you don't like what it is(the genre, style of gameplay).
Like for example your may not like horror movies but that does not mean there are not masterpieces out there.
But cyberpunk 2077 launched in a broken state. That's objective.
Myriad of bugs are not subjective. SSR, weather, police systems broken is not subjective. Texture loading in real time is not subjective. Bad performance, broken perks are not subjective. Brain dead AI its not subjective. Lack of interactivity, dead open world that is not subjective.
Its objectively not a masterpiece even though you may like the theme, genre and gameplay style.
 
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It is a matter of opinion what you like.
I say RDR2 its a masterpiece(a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship.) for what it is, its very well done even you don't like what it is(the genre, style of gameplay).
Like for example your may not like horror movies but that does not mean there are not masterpieces out there.
But cyberpunk 2077 launched in a broken state. That's objective.
Myriad of bugs are not subjective, SSR, weather, police systems broken is not subjective, texture loading in real time is not subjective, bad performance, broken perks are not subjective. Brain dead AI its not subjective. Lack of interactivity, dead open world that not subjective.
Its objectively not a masterpiece even though you may like the theme, genre and gameplay style.
Honestly, you can say whatever you want that won't make me change my mind and the reverse is certainly just as true ;)
The tastes and the colors, that cannot be discussed (if it is said in English) :)

In the end, what I mean is that if my SSD only allowed me to keep one game, it would definitely not be a RockStar game.
 
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Rockstar put about 6000 work-years into GTA V and more into RDR2. 7-8000 about.

CDPR put maybe 2500 in. Team starting at about 100 and hitting about 700 at peak, across 8 years, the bulk of which was since 2016.

Feel free to do the math.

Rockstar direct-to-game budget is representative of Western costs, Cpunk is Eastern Europe costs-per-dev-hour. Advertising is global for both. This is basic business knowledge.

No one has seen the actual 2077 costs. CDPR has not revealed them. "The budget for the game is estimated at 1.2 billion zloty ($328 million), according to analysts at Polish bank BOS, which would make Cyberpunk 2077 one of the most expensive video games ever made. "

It's a guess. That doesn't make it anything like fact.

Rockstar made the game(s) for consoles first, then PC. Is that what you all would like? Built for base consoles and looking like it, then ported to next-gen and PC later? Years later, looking much much better but still years later?

Because for sure CDPR could do that. Consoles first, PC later after a lot of building.

Where is RDR 1 on PC by the way? Oh yes. Nowhere.

Perhaps CDPR should adopt Rockstar's "Tell them nothing, and release on consoles first" policy. I'm sure that'd go over real well here.
oh come on, why you're protecting them, nobody forced cdpr to make so ambitious project and big game , actually making both: engine for type of game they never did and game itself. Maybe if they focused on quality versus quantity this game would be smaller but way better without disaster launch which will echo for years ahead, worst driving and minimap system i've seen for past couple years, completely broken animations, absent ai at all (they just using simple decision trees comeon it is 2021), bloated inventory, and so on and so on. Rockstar is doing best products on the market however they started from small rather going big bang.

They'd better spend some cash on development rather than marketing.

Stop protecting them, this industry is already treating their customers badly.
 
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Honestly, you can say whatever you want that won't make me change my mind and the reverse is certainly just as true ;)
The tastes and the colors, that cannot be discussed (if it is said in English) :)

In the end, what I mean is that if my SSD only allowed me to keep one game, it would definitely not be a RockStar game.
Logic matters and words have meanings though. Masterpiece means one thing and Cyberpunk 2077 does not fit the definition i am afraid.
I too prefer RPGs like Deux EX and Gothic 2 over any Rockstar games but that does not stop me to objectively analyze and say when something its done right(RDR2) and when something its not done right(Cyberpunk 2077). When something is a masterpiece or not.
 
In pure business terms, there are a couple of considerations that may have come into play here that I think people discount because they think "a game is art" rather than that developers are businesses with employees to pay and shareholders to consider.

Firstly, the Witcher world games outside the main titles (so I'd guess Gwent and the other one) badly underperformed, depriving CDP of an income stream they had planned for (I doubt the resurgence in W3 sales on the back of the Netflix series had any impact on financial planning because it came very late in CP development and, in any event, may or may not have been a flash in the pan).

Secondly, if you have already booked a global marketing campaign and spent the money on it, shifting a release date can become very problematic. In the worst case, you may have to run the whole campaign again, essentially flushing 100 million dollars or so down the toilet. Not every company is big enough to absorb that. (Compare No Time To Die, for which Universal had already launched worldwide billboard and other advertising and started the press tour before the film was pulled; if it gets a theatrical release Universal may have to run that whole exercise again and it will cost a fortune). Missing Christmas is also seriously bad news for sales.

Third, contrary to popular belief, GOG is not Steam and makes laughably small amounts of money for CDP. They're not in the same position to do whatever they feel like with cash rolling in as Valve.

Developers are projects-based businesses. They have to bank a certain amount of income from the good years to tide them over the lower income years. Otherwise, they can't pay for future development. At a certain point, the financial hit of delaying a release may be too much of a risk to take.

Which is not to say that the launch went smoothly, that the game was released in an acceptable state, that management was unimpeachable, or anything else.

But game developers do not live on air. There may well be sensible business reasons why things can't always go to plan.
 
I completely agree with Moonroccs. Rockstar released to consoles first and dealt with those issues, then when they felt comfortable with the consoles they released PC and dealt with those issues.
I thought exactly that when the problems with the game started to multiply.
 
for me personally, this is the difference:
gta.png
cyberpunk2.png
 
I think they got problems hiring people with enough experience, especially coders. Who wants to work in poland for a underwhelming paycheck? And now they got a imageproblem, too.

Why should they open anything in the United States or England to be able to hire people? Why doesn't anyone want to go to Poland to work? I do not understand your comment.
 
I think they got problems hiring people with enough experience, especially coders. Who wants to work in poland for a underwhelming paycheck? And now they got a imageproblem, too.
No. Just no. I'm a 3D artist in a different industry than video games but there's a lot of cross-over, and I can just from playing the game that CDPR and this game is not short on talent. What they created is incredible, less than perfect but still incredible. This is not a game that could have been made with 100% rookies or people that didnt know what they were doing.

I can only speculate but I wouldnt even say more money towards development instead of marketing would have changed the outcome of this game. The game was rushed to release and released in the buggy state it is with missing features due to poor management decisions. Not because of the lack of skill of the development team. You can be the most talented person in the world, but if you're given too much to do and too little time to do it then it doesnt matter. Compromises will have to be made.


difference between CDPR and RockStar..​

Rockstar has multiple studios around the world to contribute to projects. More employees. More money. More experience with open world games. CDPR is still new to it. Witcher 3 was amazing, but Rockstar has 10 open world games under its belt compared to CDPR's 2.
 
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Once again, off-topic posts deleted. If you are not interested in staying on topic please do not post.
This is a likely candidate for a lock, too, if you try again.
 
Rockstar has multiple studios around the world to contribute to projects. More employees. More money. More experience with open world games. CDPR is still new to it. Witcher 3 was amazing, but Rockstar has 10 open world games under its belt compared to CDPR's 2.
I think this is one of the most important points in this thread, not only are Rockstar a much larger studio but I think the value of the institutional memory that they have and the established software and functions that they can draw on from game to game have been overlooked by many people in response to CDPR's development and launch of CP2077.

Not only Rockstar, but if you look at Ubisoft, Bethesda (Zenimax) or any other major player they will have established protocols for development and release. Take Watchdogs, released as a "new" ip in 2014 but built on the groundwork done in Assasins creed, Tom clancy, Driver, Far-cry and many other products. If things aren't working then there are in-house experts who can help.

That doesn't mean they are infallible, just that they are more likely to have learnt from their own mistakes and have the wherewithal to spot problems before they occur. CDPR won't make the same mistake again, they now have that institutional memory first hand.

Interestingly Rockstar had their own CP2077 style disaster with the development of their very first game, Grand Theft Auto in 1997 it nearly wasn't made and it was panned on launch.
 

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For me the biggest difference is CDPR made Cyberpunk 2077 and Rockstar did not.

Don't get me wrong GTA 5 is fun for messing around doing silly stuff, laughed a lot playing it with my wife but its not serious in any way.

Red Dead 2 is great at times and very detailed but there is only so many times I can ride on a horse for ages doing nothing.

Each to his own I guess but Cyberpunk 2077 floats my boat way more even with all its flaws.
 
Rock star waits year(s) to port game over to PC. Dont see why CDPR had to try to release the game across every platform possible. its time PC exclusives started becoming a thing again. even if its for one year.
Rockstar put most money in development and kept mostly quiet and made awsome game(RDR2) .
CDPR put money in avertisment campaign to fool us the game(Cyberpunk 2077) is awsome.
One did the work and did not brag and released something good the other brag and boasted and released something shitty.
 
I still remember how disappointed I was when I picked up RDR2 and booted it up only to find out it had the EXACT same shitty gunplay as the other Rockstar games. Like it was identical to the first RDR and they didn't improve upon it at ALL. Rockstar is too scared to break the formula and experiment, just like Ubisoft
 

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Don't say that, did you not hear, RD2 is perfect in every way, the gun play is way better than in Cyberpunk!!
 
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