DirectX 12 reveald at GDC 2014 by Microsoft, AMD, and Nvidia

[ballowers100]

DirectX 12 reveald at GDC 2014 by Microsoft, AMD, and Nvidia

So it looks like Mantle is dead. DirectX 12 works on existing hardware not on GCN and it will boost video games FPS to 60. According to Turn 10.

http://www.pcper.com/live/

I will find a compile of pictures and put it in here.

Nvidia will support DirectX 12 on Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell.

 

[Luxorek]

Screengrabs of the official presentation HERE. Example...

 

[sidspyker]

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx

 

[M4xw0lf]

So it looks like Mantle is dead.

How? It's still got two years to spread and thrive, before first DX12 titles will appear. Cryteks very recent announcement to adopt Mantle for CryEngine does not spell "dead" to me.

DirectX 12 works on existing hardware not on GCN

So does Mantle, in theory. Devs have stated repeatedly that it can work outside GCN Hardware.

and it will boost video games FPS to 60. According to Turn 10.

and this is just... :rly?:

http://www.pcper.com/live/

I will find a compile of pictures and put it in here.

Nvidia will support DirectX 12 on Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell.

Probably just as they support DX11.1 and 11.2 on Kepler. :

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Works across all Microsoft platforms

Fail. And I'd doubt it will even work on all of MS platforms. DirectX 11 doesn't. If MS wants to step into the future from the dinosaur age, they should make DirectX open and cross platform.

I wonder how will OpenGL address this feature parity wise. That should be "works across all platforms".

 

[Aver]

Fail. And I'd doubt it will even work on all of MS platforms. DirectX 11 doesn't. If MS wants to step into the future from the dinosaur age, they should make DirectX open and cross platform.

I wonder how will OpenGL address this feature parity wise. That should be "works across all platforms".

I think that by "all platforms" they meant "Phones, Xbox, Windows".

DirectX 12 (...) will boost video games FPS to 60.

So HARDCORE!

 

[GuyNwah]

I smell vaporware. Product that won't be on market for a year and a half, announced shortly after a whole lot of design wins for a competitor's product (Mantle). Microsoft's objective with DX12 is not to sell Windows or Windows games. It's to make developers change their mind about supporting Mantle.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@Guy N'wah: Supporting something from developers' perspective only makes sense if it's usable. Something non existent can't be even a target. So MS would have hard time convincing anyone to support a non existing API. That said, Mantle itself isn't usable yet as well as not ideal, since so far it lacks support from other hardware manufacturers. So this looks like competing with creating air castles to me.

 

[GuyNwah]

@Guy N'wah: Supporting something from developers' perspective only makes sense if it's usable. Something non existent can't be even a target. So MS would have hard time convincing anyone to support a non existing API instead of something already usable. That said, Mantle itself isn't ideal, since so far it lacks support in hardware as well as in wider range of operating systems.

Developers are already planning games for 2015 and 2016. They need to decide on supported platforms and toolchains early. Vaporware is announced with the deliberate intent of causing the developer to reconsider using a competitor's resources at that stage.

You have to announce vaporware before it's available: that's what makes it vaporware; it's the entire business strategy of using vaporware. Many development managers are foolish enough to fall for vaporware products. If they weren't, Microsoft wouldn't use that strategy. But they are, and it works.

The quality or portability of Mantle is nothing to do with that, though. Only the fact that Mantle is a product that competes directly with a Microsoft product and is not a product that Microsoft gains sales from.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@Guy N'wah: Betting your future product on something that can even not materialize in time sounds like a really poor judgement to me. I'm surprised someone can fall for this.

 

[GuyNwah]

@Guy N'wah: Betting your future product on something that can even not materialize in time sounds like a really poor judgement to me. I'm surprised someone can fall for this.

Microsoft's done it for years, and yes, it works, because engineers don't buy the development tools, bean counters do. When a project goes bad, the bean counters who made defensible bad decisions (like buying IBM or Microsoft) get promoted; the ones who took risks get fired. The most notorious cases include:

IBM's System/360 Model 91, announced three years before delivery for the purpose of killing sales of the CDC 6600.
Microsoft's QuickBasic 3, announced for the purpose of killing sales of Borland Turbo Basic.

The term "vaporware" was coined to describe Microsoft Xenix, which was not a malicious vaporware but merely a failed attempt at a product.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Hehe. So MS was a historic origin of vaporware
A review: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

 

[dragonbird]

@Guy N'wah: Betting your future product on something that can even not materialize in time sounds like a really poor judgement to me. I'm surprised someone can fall for this.

Unfortunately, a lot of people do. Anyone doing development needs to look at what's coming along and try to make an assessment - will it exist, will it actually do what they say it will, will it be ready when I need it. Unfortunately, they don't always get it right. And yes, announcing something like this NOW looks very, very suspicious.

Oops: Didn't notice there was already a Page 2. So "What Guy Said"

 

[Vincentdante]

I'm no professional so this might sound naive, but what is wrong with planning to use and sticking to technology currently available until the promised future tech becomes widely available. If people did that we wouldn't have these problems.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@vincentdante: There is nothing wrong with it. That's the only sane way. How can you plan or develop anything if the supposedly coming in the future API itself isn't even published?

 

[GuyNwah]

I'm no professional so this might sound naive, but what is wrong with planning to use and sticking to technology currently available until the promised future tech becomes widely available. If people did that we wouldn't have these problems.

If the world would stand still, it would be easier. But the technologies available to implement a product move so fast that if you start a multi-year development with only the tools available now, the product will be showing its age when it hits the market.

So the question you have to ask is "what will be the best technologies available when I have to start creating machine-ready artwork and writing code?"

 

[ballowers100]

Sigh. Nvidia said they will support DirectX 12 on Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell. Doesn't Fermi go to like the 400 series? All existing DirectX 11 graphic cards from Nvidia will support DirectX 12. Someone asked a Microsoft rep if Windows XP will be supported and he said no. So I have a feeling Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and Windows 9 will support DirectX 12. Maybe Windows Vista won't support DirectX 12 but I bet from Windows 7 and up DirectX 12 will be supported.

I just don't understand why some PC gamers hate Microsoft so much and want it to cease to exist. I enjoy and love Microsoft's Windows and DirectX is there a problem that I love them and enjoy purchasing Microsoft's software?

Do you really want Microsoft to leave PC gaming and developing Operating Systems (OS's) for good? That's what it sounds like to me from some PC gamers and it makes me very sad because I don't play video games on Linux and I never will I will quit playing video games for good if Microsoft goes out of business.

Microsoft offers me what Linux will never offer me.

You guys should be happy Microsoft lets OpenGL on Windows and that Microsoft lets the video game development companies they own to develop the PC versions of their video games on Linux and MAC and OpenGL.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Why people don't like Microsoft? Because they still employ their lock-in ideology, even in this day and age. Works across all Microsoft platforms - speaks for itself. Can they mature to make it "works everywhere"? May be then people will respect them more.

You guys should be happy Microsoft lets OpenGL on Windows and that Microsoft lets the video game development companies they own to develop the PC versions of their video games on Linux and MAC and OpenGL.

They do it unwillingly. And they don't let OpenGL on Xbox and Windows Phone and etc. which they designed as way more strictly controlled. Windows historically was more open in this regard. So they can't just so easily back on it.

 

[ballowers100]

Why people don't like Microsoft? Because they still employ their lock-in ideology, even in this day and age. Works across all Microsoft platforms - speaks for itself. Can they mature to make it "works everywhere"? May be then people will respect them more.



They do it unwillingly. And they don't let OpenGL on Xbox and Windows Phone and etc.

Who cares if Microsoft keeps their software closed.

I love it. The only thing I want to see open source are the video games that's it.

Lets just have Windows closed and Linux open. DirectX closed and OpenGL open that way both types of PC gamers can be happy.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Who cares if Microsoft keeps their software closed.

Developers who have to deal with it really care. Choice of technology will determine where their programs could be used. MS could shove their closed APIs on people only because of the market domination. With the situation changing, it will only backfire on them, when people will stop using MS exclusive APIs, because they care about better platforms coverage.

Consoles wise, I think Steam machines can deal a really fatal blow to Xbox. That would spell the end of DirectX potentially and could force MS to add OpenGL support to Xbox and etc. but it will take time. Valve did something really incredible here - practically managed to lay a foundation for dismantling of MS monopoly.