Dislike towards/from Bioware fans?

[KnightofPhoenix]

I can understand the rage over Dragon Age, it seems every Bioware developer has lined up to take a dump on Origins, a game that really connected with a large and impassioned audience. You can see why they did this, because they were producing an inferior sequel for a different target audience, and wanted to downplay the strengths of the original.

You know the statement that pisses me off the most that they've been spewing for months?
"There are those who liked DA2 and others who wanted something like Origins."

I was one of the most ardent defenders of DA2 pre-release precisely because they were *seemingly* changing direction. I was not expecting Origins, I was expecting a story that didn't insult my intelligence and irritate the hell out of me. A story that was made worse with their stupid Corypheus' dream affecting Kirkwall pile of stinkin BS.

Damn no game has irritated me as much as that turd.

 

[dragonbird]

I don't care if she's the worst writer in the world, there's absolutely no reason to harass her.

That being said, her response, as well as the response of Aaryn Flynn, is every bit the classless low-road garbage that I've seen directed at her. Neither side has any excuse. She lashed out because her feelings were hurt? This happens when you're in the public eye, so it's either grow thicker skin or find a different job. Trolls are upset about her work and what they think she stands for? There are ways of expressing opinions that don't involve harassing people like a dick on the internet.

Totally classless on everyone's part.

Agreed. Her comments on women would have angered me too, if I'd read them. Condemning her views in the BSN forums (or in other gaming forums if BSN pulled their usual censorship stunts) would have been OK, but as soon as they went for personal attacks, it crossed a line.

 

[Oloroar]

Agreed. Her comments on women would have angered me too, if I'd read them. Condemning her views in the BSN forums (or in other gaming forums if BSN pulled their usual censorship stunts) would have been OK, but as soon as they went for personal attacks, it crossed a line.

What about Bioware's attacks on their fanbase and gamers in general? How many times have they belittled our opinions? How many times have they stated that our favorite genre is irrelevant? How many times have we been told that it's our fault for not enjoying DA2? How many times have they spat out sexist remarks?

I would never participate in such personal attacks against people...but I can sure as hell understand the people who did. You can only sit back for so long while someone spits in your face before you finally crack. The personal attacks on this writer were a backlash against Bioware in general, she just happened to be the straw that broke the camels back.

I would say that I feel sorry for her, but she began throwing insults back. She is no better than the people who harass her.

 

[Dona.794]

Let's not forget that Reddit hates EA/Bioware, they were just waiting for a chance to make a mess.

 

[dragonbird]

What about Bioware's attacks on their fanbase and gamers in general? How many times have they belittled our opinions? How many times have they stated that our favorite genre is irrelevant? How many times have we been told that it's our fault for not enjoying DA2? How many times have they spat out sexist remarks?

I would never participate in such personal attacks against people...but I can sure as hell understand the people who did. You can only sit back for so long while someone spits in your face before you finally crack. The personal attacks on this writer were a backlash against Bioware in general, she just happened to be the straw that broke the camels back.

I would say that I feel sorry for her, but she began throwing insults back. She is no better than the people who harass her.

Bioware customers have one weapon at their disposal that Bioware doesn't have. We can stop buying Bioware games. This is the ultimate way of showing customer disapproval, and it's more effective and more destructive than any kind of forum complaint.

There are only really two good reasons to complain about something. One is to tell the company how unhappy you are in the hope that they'll fix it/not do it again, and the other is to warn off other people from buying their products. Anything else is just intended to make the complainer feel better for getting it off his chest, but it rarely seems to work.

 

[Pangaea666]

Bioware customers have one weapon at their disposal that Bioware doesn't have. We can stop buying Bioware games. This is the ultimate way of showing customer disapproval, and it's more effective and more destructive than any kind of forum complaint.

That sounds great in theory, and it is when enough people do it. But that is exactly the problem. You need a LOT of people doing it for it to even have a registrable impact. Even if 100 000 people didn't buy the game because they were fed up with BW/EA and the development of the ME games, BW/EA wouldn't even know about it unless some of them made it public in BioWare's own back yard: BSN.

It's the same with public demonstrations about just about anything. 1,000 people shows up and nobody (who they want to influence) care. 1,000,000 people show up and they really pay attention.

Considering BioWare tend to lock down even threads with constructive feedback and criticism, perhaps voicing concerns over at BSN with the goal of influencing BioWare is pointless. But it does get the message across to other potential buyers that something is off with the game, and that may have an impact. At the end of the day these decisions are taken in boardrooms and feature meetings though. If there is a torrent of feedback in a certain direction maybe it will have a slight impact on those decisions, but not by much. ME3 will soon be a good example of that. Slight increase in RPG elements, but the gameplay itself is shoot anything that moves.

 

[Oloroar]

Bioware customers have one weapon at their disposal that Bioware doesn't have. We can stop buying Bioware games. This is the ultimate way of showing customer disapproval, and it's more effective and more destructive than any kind of forum complaint.

There are only really two good reasons to complain about something. One is to tell the company how unhappy you are in the hope that they'll fix it/not do it again, and the other is to warn off other people from buying their products. Anything else is just intended to make the complainer feel better for getting it off his chest, but it rarely seems to work.

I agree that these type of attacks do little in terms of changing Biowares business plan. However, like Pangaea said, people who are unhappy with Bioware's recent products or who oppose the many stupid remarks said by the executives have NO WHERE legitimate to express their concerns or vent their frustration - and there is a lot of things to complain about recently. The quality of Bioware's games keep decreasing, the execs keep talking trash, threads are closed, people are ignored. When this writer opened her twitter account, people saw a venue of attack that good old Stan "I-ban-everything-even-slightly-negative" Woo couldn't reach, and they took the opportunity. Again, I don't agree with it, but I understand.

Ultimately, Bioware is to blame for this incident.

 

[username_2093396]

That sounds great in theory, and it is when enough people do it. But that is exactly the problem. You need a LOT of people doing it for it to even have a registrable impact. Even if 100 000 people didn't buy the game because they were fed up with BW/EA and the development of the ME games, BW/EA wouldn't even know about it unless some of them made it public in BioWare's own back yard: BSN.

But Bioware isn't the only developer in existence. I don't expect that Bioware cares one way or the other whether I buy their games because I'm just one person. But the money makes a difference to me, and I feel better spending my money on other games that I enjoy more. So even if Bioware never improves, it doesn't bother me anymore because I'll just keep buying someone else's games instead. I'm beyond caring what Bioware does with their games at this point.

 

[dragonbird]

But Bioware isn't the only developer in existence. I don't expect that Bioware cares one way or the other whether I buy their games because I'm just one person. But the money makes a difference to me, and I feel better spending my money on other games that I enjoy more. So even if Bioware never improves, it doesn't bother me anymore because I'll just keep buying someone else's games instead. I'm beyond caring what Bioware does with their games at this point.

Yes, you're only one person. But if the Bioware-haters really do represent a large percentage of Bioware-gamers, then it should make a difference. And if there's this huge, silent majority of people who still think Bioware are the greatest, then Bioware probably shouldn't be taking notice of the complaints anyway, should they?

Yes, from what you and my Dragon-bro said, I can understand why the haters went to Twitter, although I disapprove of it. What I can't understand is why anyone who hated DA2 would pre-order ME3, but I suspect a lot did. At the very least, they should wait and see.

 

[username_2093396]

Yes, you're only one person. But if the Bioware-haters really do represent a large percentage of Bioware-gamers, then it should make a difference. And if there's this huge, silent majority of people who still think Bioware are the greatest, then Bioware probably shouldn't be taking notice of the complaints anyway, should they?

Yeah, exactly. If Bioware changes in a direction I like then I'll probably start buying their games again, but if they don't change then I'm perfectly happy avoiding them and buying games from different companies instead. I'm not trying to protest or anything. I'm just making the decision to spend my money on games I enjoy and avoid games that I think I won't enjoy

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't really understand why a lot of people seem emotionally invested in Bioware. They're a company and a lot of the people who made their older games have probably left by now anyway so I don't see the point in having any kind of loyalty to Bioware.

If they do good then I'll buy the game and if they do bad then I won't buy it. But whether they do good or bad doesn't really matter to me because even if I don't play their new games there are still plenty of other games to keep me happy.

 

[Oloroar]

They're a company and a lot of the people who made their older games have probably left by now anyway so I don't see the point in having any kind of loyalty to Bioware.

I know that, I really do...but I love their classics. I recently finished KOTOR, and loved it. Its right up there as my favorite space opera RPG. Every time I play through one of their amazing games, I look at Mass Effect and DA2 and just wonder what could have been. That is what makes me upset - what could have been. *sigh*

 

[Pangaea666]

I know that, I really do...but I love their classics. I recently finished KOTOR, and loved it. Its right up there as my favorite space opera RPG. Every time I play through one of their amazing games, I look at Mass Effect and DA2 and just wonder what could have been. That is what makes me upset - what could have been. *sigh*

Very well put, and I totally agree. We know what they were capable of, compare that with the current dumbed down filth, and thus can't help but be disappointed of what could have been. This is probably even stronger for me, because I never played all those classic games in my teens like so many others did. I've been playing them much more recently and am at awe of the quality in those games. It's so sad and disappointing to see them move so far away from the roots that made them famous and completely sell out. In another game or three maybe that feeling of nostalgia will be gone and we will have internalised that they simply produce poor games these days, but right now it's too close to the breakoff point.

I think we would see much the same reaction in here if CDPR did something similar, although much less severe of course because much fewer people have played their games than BioWare's over the years (the amount of users and posts on BSN is jaw-dropping). We saw some signs of it with the first images of the new Geralt and some other rumoured changes. Geralt looked like going in the direction of a Hollywood hunk, which many of us were deeply disappointed with. That changed in later development, probably partly due to the reaction in here, but just imagine the torrent of abuse CDPR would get too if they went BioWare on our ass. It would be based on the same phenomenon. They have produced some cracking games, and now they sold out and give us shooters with cheap lines and sex. "Just imagine what could have been..."

 

[dragonbird]

That changed in later development, probably partly due to the reaction in here, but just imagine the torrent of abuse CDPR would get too if they went BioWare on our ass. It would be based on the same phenomenon. They have produced some cracking games, and now they sold out and give us shooters with cheap lines and sex. "Just imagine what could have been..."

And this is why CDPR isn't Bioware, thank goodness! They listened.
(The furore was before my time, but I went for the "White Hair" mod the day I installed TW2, and I'd have gone for the "Ugly but sexy" mod next if it had been necessary).

Banning criticism of your own products on your own forums is a really dumb thing for any company to do. Do they really not realise this?

 

[Oloroar]

This is probably even stronger for me, because I never played all those classic games in my teens like so many others did. I've been playing them much more recently and am at awe of the quality in those games.

It is the same with me. That playthough of KOTOR was my first...

 

[username_2093396]

I know that, I really do...but I love their classics. I recently finished KOTOR, and loved it. Its right up there as my favorite space opera RPG. Every time I play through one of their amazing games, I look at Mass Effect and DA2 and just wonder what could have been. That is what makes me upset - what could have been. *sigh*

I understand (I like their older games too). But are any of the people who made Kotor still working at Bioware? I honestly don't know, but at this point I suspect that everyone has been replaced and the company is Bioware in name only. I'd rather chase after spiritual successors to the games I enjoyed, regardless of who made them

Also, I really loved Kotor 2 (aside from the bugs and the fact that certain locations and events were blatantly cut out last-minute due to time constraints). That was made by Obsidian, not Bioware, and I was really surprised when I first learned it. That's part of my reasoning that it doesn't matter who makes a game as long as the game is good

 

[CostinRaz]

Personally I view playing the Witcher series as watching Casablanca whereas playing the Mass Effect series is like watching the LOTR movies, both very good movies but different. To me the ME series is just as good as the Witcher series for different reasons. I do however think that Origins was shit except for ONE character that stood out: Loghain, that's it, but that's my PoV.

As for the Hepler situation. after reading her tweet where she said that everyone who disliked her writing was homophobic and sexist well excuse me if I feel she got exactly what she damned well deserved. Gaider deserves much of the blame for DA2 though and unlike Hepler he has openly mocked people on the forums.

The worst thing about BSN is not the fact that the moderators close any thread with real constructive criticism, because while certainly that is bad having 1000 Biodrones show up in every discussion to defend EVERY single shit decision Bioware has made is far worse.

 

[Oloroar]

Personally I view playing the Witcher series as watching Casablanca whereas playing the Mass Effect series is like watching the LOTR movies, both very good movies but different. To me the ME series is just as good as the Witcher series for different reasons.

I am sorry, but did you just compare Mass Effect to one of the greatest cinematic masterpieces? You know, some of the highest grossing and highest rated movies of all time? The movies that are based on the most detailed and popular fantasy books of all time? The movies that pushed cinematic technology and CGI forward by a decade?.....OK.

Oh, I should also add that you just pissed off every New Zealander that might browse this topic, since its considered one of their national icons.

The worst thing about BSN is not the fact that the moderators close any thread with real constructive criticism, because while certainly that is bad having 1000 Biodrones show up in every discussion to defend EVERY single shit decision Bioware has made is far worse.

Let them. At the end of the day, they are the ones who are going to pay for an inferior product. After all, Criticism helps studios improve and refine their games.

I understand (I like their older games too). But are any of the people who made Kotor still working at Bioware? I honestly don't know, but at this point I suspect that everyone has been replaced and the company is Bioware in name only. I'd rather chase after spiritual successors to the games I enjoyed, regardless of who made them

Also, I really loved Kotor 2 (aside from the bugs and the fact that certain locations and events were blatantly cut out last-minute due to time constraints). That was made by Obsidian, not Bioware, and I was really surprised when I first learned it. That's part of my reasoning that it doesn't matter who makes a game as long as the game is good

Don't get me wrong, I was done with Bioware right after DA2. I have no loyalty to them and dont intend to buy anymore of their products unless they improve the quality....who are we kidding here, I am never buying anything from them again. I have moved on.

 

[chlong7]

As for the Hepler situation. after reading her tweet where she said that everyone who disliked her writing was homophobic and sexist well excuse me if I feel she got exactly what she damned well deserved. Gaider deserves much of the blame for DA2 though and unlike Hepler he has openly mocked people on the forums.

Can't agree completely, there. What Hepler said was ill-advised but understandable (to me, at least). She lost her temper publicly after being harassed pretty viciously at home as well as at work by disgruntled, ignorant, and rather stalkerish "fans". I don't think anyone deserves that, especially not at home.

I would agree that Gaider's presence on the forums has been mixed. On the one hand, it's cool that he participates in the community. On the other hand, he loses his temper pretty regularly. And yes, as the head writer, he's got primary responsibility for DA2's narrative. Level design and release scheduling are other matters. DA2 seems like it suffered most from EA's insistence on rushing it.

EDIT: Well, ok, it's particular brand of visual stylization is what it is. But storytelling and level design clearly could have used some more time in development.

 

[CostinRaz]

I am sorry, but did you just compare Mass Effect to one of the greatest cinematic masterpieces? You know, some of the highest grossing and highest rated movies of all time? The movies that are based on the most detailed and popular fantasy books of all time? The movies that pushed cinematic technology and CGI forward by a decade?.....OK.

I made an analogy that just as LOTR and Cassablanca are masterpieces in their own rights for different reasons so to are the ME/Witcher games.

Let them. At the end of the day, they are the ones who are going to pay for an inferior product. After all, Criticism helps studios improve and refine their games.

You should see the debacle in terms of the ME3 ending. Oh it's going to hurt. Personally I don't mind it that much.

What Hepler said was ill-advised but understandable

She made a damned general statement in regards to EVERYONE who dislikes her writing. Excuse me if I don't find that acceptable at all, and I don't give a damn for her excuses or the excuses of anyone seeking to defend that BS. Throwing back insults at those that troll you, yeah that's fine for me, but insulting so many people at once? No.

Yes I am quite pissed at her statement.

 

[chlong7]

Yes I am quite pissed at her statement.

A lot of people are. Fair enough. I'm just not, and the reason I'm not is because it looks like a stupid exaggeration made by someone who's been pushed into losing their temper. If she really believes what she said, that's a problem, but what she said was clearly a response to the weird harassment she's been getting. Too bad it stooped to the maturity level of the people bothering her in the first place. Gaider's forum behavior annoys me more, though.

I can definitely say I'm glad to be done doing business with Bioware/EA. I gave up on them awhile back after getting tired of some of their business practices, and this kind of thing doesn't make me regret it in the slightest.