Do Not Be Afraid About CP2077

[Snowflakez]

I think it's because people prioritize different things in gameplay. For exemple one common discussion is player skill based gameplay VS character skill based gameplay. It seems like C2077 might be in the middle of those as both twitch players an stats players both complains.



Well, there can be lots of definition of "No censorship".

Yeah. There's censorship where you make a base game and then actively remove stuff to accommodate specific countries/etc., and then there's self-censorship where you pre-emptively tone down aspects of the game in all copies.

I believe CDPR is going with the self-censorship thing, mostly.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Yeah, you have a past like every character in this kind of game. But it doesn't mean your V is the same than my V

Well, not only same past actually.

@Snowflakez: Love you guy, you seems to understands me a lot.

 

[Night_City_Native]

• Budget - the game is very expensive. Is it spent well? Not sure if money on rappers etc. is good investment.

Whether or not you enjoy Rap music, it should definitely exist in the world of Cyberpunk. The world of Cyperpunk is an imaginary future for our own world, and Rap is now arguably as popular if not more so than Rock. As of 2019, the genre continuing to exist in some form in 2077 seems much more plausible than it no longer being popular in our imaginary future. Musicians in the world of Cyberpunk also often give voice to the otherwise powerless and advocate for rebellion or social change. That is a niche that many modern rap artists fill.

Rap on the whole isn't really my cup of tea usually, but it does fit the Cyberpunk universe like a glove.

 

[IndifferentEmpathy]

I think it's because people prioritize different things in gameplay. For exemple one common discussion is player skill based gameplay VS character skill based gameplay. It seems like C2077 might be in the middle of those as twitch players an stats players both complains.

There is only one magic criteria gameplay has to satisfy - to have fun gameplay loop. While there are many ways to achieve this there are also many ways to fail it:

• Poor controls leading to player frustration
• Poorly tuned time to kill (e.g. bullet sponges)
• Poorly tuned challenge (e.g. dumb enemy AI)
• Repetitiveness (masked by enemy dying animations being visually satisfying and proper enemy density and pacing)
• Poorly tuned progression (e.g. too much time until new weapon/skill/challenge shake-up)
• Lack of replay-ability (e.g. game systems does not allowing significantly different experience. +% dmg perks are too boring for this IMO)

From what we seen of CP2077 combat its seems 7/10 aka serviceable for the game. Might even be 8/10 with KB+M. Which makes it not good enough to stand on its own without other systems but OK for RPG. I noted this as my concern since I have not seen proper length non-interrupted gameplay segment this year unlike in 2018.

Well, there can be lots of definition of "No censorship".

Well if you google Cyberpunk you can see quite a bit of fan art and cosplays that will be too lewd for this game even with M rating. My hope is that at least we have beautiful and sexy characters in the game (V default male and female bodies are fine) - in the universe with implants and bio-sculpting there is no reason to not have characters that are less realistic.

PS. CDPR if you reading this, I know that in Poland B cup is considered best size, but in world its C cup

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

There is only one magic criteria gameplay has to satisfy - to have fun gameplay loop.

What is considered fun differ wildly from one person to the other, that's the reason that even if I disagree with CDprojekt vision of what is essential in an RPG on the contrary I will not attack their vision of fun: because everybody have their own.

PS. CDPR if you reading this, I know that in Poland B cup is considered best size, but in world its C cup

When it comes to cup, you must not limit yourself, the sky is the only limit.

 

[IndifferentEmpathy]

What is considered fun differ wildly from one person to the other, that's the reason that even if I disagree with CDprojekt vision of what is essential in an RPG on the contrary I will not attack their vision of fun: because everybody have their own.

Which is why we will not know how much we like it until we ultimately get to play it.

When it comes to cup, you must not limit yourself, the sky is the only limit.

It was meant as a joke.

Fact is Cyberpunk visually is inspired a lot by manga/anime and 2020 rulebook illustrations is no exception. But posting some examples from Ghost of the Shell manga would violate the rules of this forum as they are too lewd, so seeing anything close like that in the game is unlikely.

 

[Guest 4211861]

I'm sure it will be fine. Not like I would go outside, or anything like that.

 

[Nefla]

I can't NOT be afraid. I assumed I would love the game because I like the genre/setting, loved the Witcher games, and assumed things about this game that ended up not being true and others that haven't been shown and are still unknown. I really hope we see more in depth story, character/companion interaction, dialogue/roleplaying options and non combat skills soon because as it stands what I see is a shooter/action game and not the RPG I was hoping for.

 

[Dreadn0ught_Prime]

Your thread is all about games of today versus games of yesterday. I am personally happy with what is going on and glad its first person. I feel that third person is a console crutch that too many people rely on these days. You can see it in the pain of some peoples posts. Third person denies you the experience of feeling just how grand or minsicule something is. It allows you to create visceral feelings as it's more believable that you are actually there. Using surround sound to really keep the player on edge.

Do you spin around to see what that noise was? Doing so may also cost you your life if it was a distraction created by someone hiding in front of you. Third person would allow you to see both pieces and thus cheat the experience. This game was made in the 80's, played in the 90's, and now being re-published as a digital experience in the year it was designed for (an absolute humorous unintended pun for sure) and we can see just how far things have changed and how vastly different everything is.

I am ok with whatever they do as I am going to heavily mod the game then play it on twitch the way I played it back when I was playing the paperback in the 90s. I am disappointed in how things have been handled, PR wise, but that is the fault of society in general, and not CDPR, who are just trying to make money, but that's about it.

I'm just glad an honest to god, REAL cyberpunk style, open world game is coming out. It will finally be the spur that gets other developers to make games in this genre (my favorite, you can only play Deus Ex so many times. After about the 50th time it starts to show wear and tear). Cyberpunk 2077 is about 20 years later than I expected, but better late than never. Thank GOD its CDPR and not some other developer who would have not given it the love and attention a game of this caliber deserves. I will never forgive microsoft for what they did to shadowrun.

I think developers need to understand that if you make a game that is based on what we adults played as a kid, that you are making something that is near and dear to us. You are not just making something up and marketing it to console kids. You are making something that is on the same caliber as Star Wars or even Marvel comics. We are older, we have jobs or run our own companies, and make WAAAYY more money than your average console kid and are willing to spend the money if you do it right.

 

[IndifferentEmpathy]

I think developers need to understand that if you make a game that is based on what we adults played as a kid, that you are making something that is near and dear to us. You are not just making something up and marketing it to console kids. You are making something that is on the same caliber as Star Wars or even Marvel comics. We are older, we have jobs or run our own companies, and make WAAAYY more money than your average console kid and are willing to spend the money if you do it right.

Amen to that.

CDPR should make good game without casualization, watering down, censorship and other distractions. Just look at 2019 GOTY Sekiro - a game that did not compromise its design because of journos crying that its too hard etc.

However your point about first person does not account for a lot of factors. F.e. Statistics show that females prefer games where they can see their character. Every design decision can have pros and cons.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

I am personally happy with what is going on and glad its first person. Third person denies you the experience of feeling just how grand or minsicule something is. It allows you to create visceral feelings as it's more believable that you are actually there.

Maybe the reason is that for quite a lot of people it just doesn't work unless it's VR FPP.

 

[Martindnewton]

I don't mind 1st person gameplay at all really im excited to play it, its the cutscenes that are the problem. Especially when they first defended 1st person by stating you would still see your character there, and they was quite happy to show how beautiful they looked in the demo.

I can't help but find the immersion factor a load of bollocks to be quite frank, it feels to me like a time saving measure. Witcher 3 was a goddamn cinematic masterpiece, nearly 15 hours of cutscenes and i was never not immersed. They also take a lot of work to animate.

 

[Suhiira]

I really hope we see more in depth story, character/companion interaction, dialogue/roleplaying options and non combat skills soon because as it stands what I see is a shooter/action game and not the RPG I was hoping for.

It certainly won't (I hope to hell) be "Doom", but yes there seems to be a significant emphasis on shooter/action gameplay. There's an (seemingly lackluster) option to use a "Smartgun" if you're not an FPS fan (or can't play FPS games) but there seems to be little to no attempt to relate this to character stats/skills, you just point your "Smartgun" at an area and it hits everything in it, no player, or character, skill needed.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

It certainly won't (I hope to hell) be "Doom", but yes there seems to be a significant emphasis on shooter/action gameplay. There's an (seemingly lackluster) option to use a "Smartgun" if you're not an FPS fan (or can't play FPS games) but there seems to be little to no attempt to relate this to character stats/skills, you just point your "Smartgun" at an area and it hits everything in it, no player, or character, skill needed.

And this (all of it) should absolutely be on the table for further adjustments, because it is not undoable (or unorthodox, for that matter) to have combat that is less of a shooter and more of an RPG by how it works.

 

[Nefla]

Your thread is all about games of today versus games of yesterday. I am personally happy with what is going on and glad its first person. I feel that third person is a console crutch that too many people rely on these days. You can see it in the pain of some peoples posts. Third person denies you the experience of feeling just how grand or minsicule something is. It allows you to create visceral feelings as it's more believable that you are actually there. Using surround sound to really keep the player on edge.

First person does not create visceral feelings for me, change how I view scale, or make it more believable that I'm actually there. Those may be your feelings but they're not universal. What first person does for me is make a game where I'm totally cut off from the protagonist who becomes not an interesting character I can relate to but a pair of random floating hands that it's impossible for me to think of as a character or care about in any way. First person to me is tunnel vision, the FOV is unrealistically restricted compared to a real human eye which has peripheral vision, and near instant instant, seamless rotation. First person is the bane of character and storytelling for me and those are the most important thing in a game to me. It cuts me off from the character I'm playing and it makes me physically nauseous. There's a reason they don't make movies or tv shows in first person perspective.

Do you spin around to see what that noise was? Doing so may also cost you your life if it was a distraction created by someone hiding in front of you. Third person would allow you to see both pieces and thus cheat the experience. This game was made in the 80's, played in the 90's, and now being re-published as a digital experience in the year it was designed for (an absolute humorous unintended pun for sure) and we can see just how far things have changed and how vastly different everything is.

A real person's vision doesn't act like a FPP camera. For one, you have both the eyes and the neck rotating so you don't have to spin around to check a noise and for another, real vision doesn't motion blur like the camera does. If you feel like TPP is "cheating" then the option to switch back and forth at will would have been ideal. You would have never had to touch TPP and those of us who hate FPP wouldn't have had to touch that if we didn't want to either.

I think developers need to understand that if you make a game that is based on what we adults played as a kid, that you are making something that is near and dear to us. You are not just making something up and marketing it to console kids. You are making something that is on the same caliber as Star Wars or even Marvel comics. We are older, we have jobs or run our own companies, and make WAAAYY more money than your average console kid and are willing to spend the money if you do it right.

What I played as a kid were games in third person perspective. Legend of Zelda, Mario Brothers, etc...for the original NES, all in third person perspective. If you're labeling people who've been gaming since the 80's as "kids" I don't know what to tell you.

 

[CyberBobber]

It certainly won't (I hope to hell) be "Doom", but yes there seems to be a significant emphasis on shooter/action gameplay. There's an (seemingly lackluster) option to use a "Smartgun" if you're not an FPS fan (or can't play FPS games) but there seems to be little to no attempt to relate this to character stats/skills, you just point your "Smartgun" at an area and it hits everything in it, no player, or character, skill needed.

Theres double jump and dodging, thats good indication of action combat. Then also slow is kinda too, if one is expected to slow down when you're near death etc, yeah, you can slow yourself down if facing a death. Destructible terrain seems to be in game too, thats one action combat thing, you arent expected to stay in one spot too long.

Double jump for me was odd surprice, you need to think about your moving paths?

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2019

• Budget - the game is very expensive. Is it spent well? Not sure if money on rappers etc. is good investment.

This game is expected to sell 22 mill units, tell me which artist doesnt what that kind of visibility? I really doubt CDPR pays nothing to artists.

I hope game industry starts working with music industry more if anything.

 

[LordSerion]

I have a question: based on my extremely rudimentary 3rd hand knowledge of the TTRPG rules, it's extremely easy to die in a firefight even with armor, which is quite realistic. Will this be implemented as a difficulity rank or toggleable element?

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I have a question: based on my extremely rudimentary 3rd hand knowledge of the TTRPG rules, it's extremely easy to die in a firefight even with armor, which is quite realistic. Will this be implemented as a difficulity rank or toggleable element?

No knowledge, but I suppose you can rest assured there is some "extra hard" difficulty setting. What does it mean beyond enemies withstanding more punishment and you less, there's no telling. But given what we know of combat, it won't work at all like it works in CP2020.

 

[LordSerion]

Yes, I saw that from the vids, that's why I asked this.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Quoted from that other thread due to moderator interference...

Let me ask you a question: Are you surprised?

Not particularly, no. Just a tad disheartened.

I am not altogether opposed to the concept, but I do hope they cut down on the amount of chaff that clogs up our inventories. Its non-immersive, and overall a bother instead of something to enjoy.

If there was something interesting to be done with the junk loot... If you pickpocketed someones ID card and could use your forgery skill to make it yours temporarily to get access to stuff you otherwise couldn't, or use your net tech skills to track that person down and have his bank account zeroed or simply have some random fun by adding him to the wanted list of the police and watch him get decimated by a sudden MAXTAC strike, or if you found a picture of their secret crush or fiancé and helped them reconnect or destroy their relationship, or found out they work for some corporation and got them out of job so you can sneak into that facility (which you otherwise couldn't) at the guise of coming to a job interview for a recently opened position... and so on. All with the appropriate networking skills and at the risk of getting caught, of course.

It might seem "random" and it kinda is, and it's completely optional for the player to engage into, but it is stuff to do beyond hauling random assortment of shit in your pockets so you can build a new temp machinegun with legs #230498 or create yet another drug to aid you in combat or give your leg implant 5% boost on sprinting speed.

There's lots that can be done with "junk" loot if there's the will to put it all in the game.

And I don't think the inventory should be endless anyway.

CDPR has clearly shown that they heavily favor classic game concepts such as loot, levels, and so on and so forth. Sure, they may introduce new stuff, but they still cling to the old stuff. Their name is a nod to old games printed on CD's, they have "good old games" which is all about enjoying the gems of the past, etc.

There are more - and more interesting - ways to adhere to "classic concepts", which is my point of contention towards their specific approach.