Do Not Be Afraid About CP2077

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I have to say i had while ago to see the live gameplay in a show here in italy. Lucca Comix and Games and again i was not impressed. I don't see emergent gameplay elements or very in depth immersive sim elements. Seems we have a pattern between story decisions and some freedom in how to tackle situations with different outcomes but gameplay speaking it did not felt a RPG at all.

It felt like a Deus ex HR in oper world with unimmaginative FPS mechanics and some degree of interaction in the ambient. There was no new area shown only the uncut version of the Deep Dive video. And again from a title that has his core in a pen and paper game i felt the overall experience was a watered down version of cyberpunk that tries to look cool but in the end aside of that is just a collage of "features" of other FPS around.

Honestly when it comes to feeling of immersion. I felt way more immersed in the first mission of red dead redemption 2 than this videos i saw and the gameplay i saw.

The core problem is not just the visual of gameplay chosen but also the fact that CD projekt red seemed really confused at what a Playing a character means.

In fact while the game promotes Player Agency there is very little character agency.

To make you understand it was like comparing Fallout new vegas with Fallout4.

Fallout4 offers a lot of player freedom in doing what you want to do.

Fallout NV offer a lot of way to costumize your character taking in account who kind of person your character is what is good and bad about it. ((for example a character with high diplomacy skills could talk himself alway from many situation)).

Cyberpunk2077 lack this totally for what i have seen. And the so called RP mechanics are just watered down to Terminator/Solid snake hackerman/Crafting skills.

Despite what they say i still think Cyberpunk 2077 is not an rpg.

It is more like an action adventure with fps elements and a branching narrative.
By now it's quite clear that CP77 will be a FPP version of TW3 but with different combat approaches. The rest will be almost 1:1 the same keeping the same pros (narrative, world building) and cons (progression system strictly bound to levels, looter elements, mediocre combat system and driving). Expecting something else will only lead to a huge disappointment, not only in terms of gameplay but also regarding non-linear main quest. Been there, done that.
CDPR has become too big to take any risks that goes beyond "bigger and louder".
CP77 is still my most anticipated game for 2020, but dying light 2 is the one which intrigues me most. At least their both polish. :shrug:
 
I still feel they've shown only a small sliver of the game, unlike their marketing for TW3. Why that is, I don't know, but it is a bit of a concern. We're 4 months away. Are we gonna see the skill tree? Weapon types? What exploration looks like? Driving? Melee? Anything more at all? Yes they have one long gameplay video but I'm certain that was vertical slice/proof of concept. I expect the marketing to kick in any week now and prove me wrong but it certainly seems delayed.
 
Considering they have stopped officially marketing the game as an RPG on their social media and promotional materials, I wouldn't get too excited unless your idea of a "groundbreaking western RPG" is a Far Cry or GTA clone with a small skill tree.
 
Good gameplay is something subjective anyway.
To me things which makes the game more immersive is good gameplay.

No way, immersive and gameplay doesnt go hand to hand. Overwatch for example has excellent gameplay, but it doesnt feel even nearly as immersive as Skyrim for example. You cant have both imho. Sometimes gameplay comes in the way of immersive like Rage 2. it has alot of cool stuff but it kills the immersive.

You gotta find balance between immersive and gameplay, thats what I think. Too much other kills the another etc.
 
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Granted i am waiting the release day to see if what i saw or believe is true or just created by a bad marketing that focus too much on celebrities and not much in showing off the game.

But if is how i think it will be i for sure will think twice in future before buy a Cd Projekt title.
 
I still feel they've shown only a small sliver of the game, unlike their marketing for TW3. Why that is, I don't know, but it is a bit of a concern. We're 4 months away. Are we gonna see the skill tree? Weapon types? What exploration looks like? Driving? Melee? Anything more at all? Yes they have one long gameplay video but I'm certain that was vertical slice/proof of concept. I expect the marketing to kick in any week now and prove me wrong but it certainly seems delayed.
That's the problem , five years ago we saw lots of TW3's gameplay from youtubers however this time we have nothing too quiet I think the reason is they are NOT ready delay confirm
 
I still feel they've shown only a small sliver of the game, unlike their marketing for TW3. Why that is, I don't know, but it is a bit of a concern. We're 4 months away. Are we gonna see the skill tree? Weapon types? What exploration looks like? Driving? Melee? Anything more at all? Yes they have one long gameplay video but I'm certain that was vertical slice/proof of concept. I expect the marketing to kick in any week now and prove me wrong but it certainly seems delayed.
expect proper gameplay from mid march on, probably the first week of april with reviews. Earlier than that, just minor stuff, maybe another useless CGI video.
I expect an influencers/press hands-on in february, but no videos of it. If this does not happen, than I get scared as well.
 
No way, immersive and gameplay doesnt go hand to hand. Overwatch for example has excellent gameplay, but it doesnt feel even nearly as immersive as Skyrim for example. You cant have both imho. Sometimes gameplay comes in the way of immersive like Rage 2. it has alot of cool stuff but it kills the immersive.

You gotta find balance between immersive and gameplay, thats what I think. Too much other kills the another etc.

I was speaking in an RPG, I though it was self explanatory.
 
Part of me is afraid that I'm overhyping this game and while I haven't seen anything to be concerned about there is still a lot that we dont know and a bunch of stuff we did know has been changed, not to mention the whole multiplayer thing.

I do have faith in CDPR to make an amazing game but I'm thinking I may need to temper my expectations a little bit because where they currently are would be impossible for any game to meet.
 
Part of me is afraid that I'm overhyping this game ... I haven't seen anything to be concerned about

I admit I might be a bit snobby and overly negative considering I guessed what kind of game this will be already in 2013 (what an awful Nostradamus I was...). I’ve seen some big words, but the implications and in-game footage have looked nothing special or out of the ordinary, and had I not known what game it was, I would’ve guessed it’s Far Cry 2100 or something. And that all just fills me with more concern and lukewarm at best feelings than hype and excitement (that were still somewhat present a few years back).

We’ll see what comes out of this in the end, but I’m not really keeping my fingers crossed anymore for overly pleasant surprises.

I mean, the game might very well be ”good for what it is”, something I might play from start to finish and don’t regret playing, that’s certainly possible to a degree, but... Can’t expect anything exceptional or ”wow, they really nailed it” stuff. Good RPG experience just isn’t merely about good storytelling, it needs more, and the implications so far are that that ”more” either isn’t there at all or is lacking pretty severely.
 
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And like it or not RPGs are a niche market, shooters on the other hand have a huge market.

On the other hand shooter market is extremely contested and its very difficult to push through and succeed on that front. It may be better to invest in that niche market rather than trying to emphasize shooter aspects.. which may look bland, generic and uninteresting because players have gotten used to better quality.
 
That's true to a point. But one has to keep in mind, that V is also... 19, was it? Barely out of his teens anyway, and just an upstart merc in NC, so it's also kinda unreasonable to expect him to be a full on combatant by nature (if the player happens to be a pro at FPS gaming). Unless you can put your starting skills already at a hefty level in character creation.

The reticle definitely shouldn't take half the screen (or be the size of China), that's very true, but it would be reasonable to have it somewhat wide and have the focus close in slower the less you have skill. The idea being that the player can reliably run'n gun (to what ever extent the game requires that) only at higher skill levels when aiming and focusing is reliably fast and accurate. But before that, pulling off accurate shots and bursts should require some commitment from the player (because the character can't do it well).



Most games are about damage progression, so I'm not really diametrically opposed to it. But it works better in games that are more abstract by nature or which are simply built around that kind of thing -- think, isometric games, or FPS' like Serious Sam. Less so with games that have an in-your-face presentation and want to also be taken "seriously". I think the accuracy factor has bad rep for bad reasons, and few (if any) games that've tried it have actually built their combat to support it properly. They still work with damage being the key factor, so of course it feels bad. When you combine enemies that need 10-50 shots to put down and that you miss 30-40% of your shots, it feels absolutely terrible because your scored hits are so minuscule in their impact. But it's a whole other story if you need around 1-10 shots on average to bring an enemy down, even if you still missed several times. With every shot you manage to hit, you get a much more satisfying result every time. And when you are all skilled up, you might still miss on occasion, but combat is way, way smoother than before; and you don't need to counter that with enemies starting to get loads more HP to keep the challenge up. Just keep the rate of progression at a reasonable level that won't put the character in the position of Rambo when merely half the game is done.

That's my opinion on this. Or, the basics of it.



Perhaps. It's even likely. But I hope they lean more towards accuracy progression than damage. And have the balls to make the systems actually count for something.
This is also what I've been asking for for years, and from what I understand, it's what they're attempting to do.

Miles Tost even came on these very forums some time ago and said that they plan to make weapons get more accurate over time, and handle better, etc. I can try to find his specific post, but I'm certain you were there when it happened, so perhaps your memory is more reliable than my own.

At any rate, this is one area where I'm willing to be at least a teensy bit hopeful. If nothing else, I think the game will have some sort of noticeable improvement to weapon handling as V gets better.

I still feel they've shown only a small sliver of the game, unlike their marketing for TW3. Why that is, I don't know, but it is a bit of a concern. We're 4 months away. Are we gonna see the skill tree? Weapon types? What exploration looks like? Driving? Melee? Anything more at all? Yes they have one long gameplay video but I'm certain that was vertical slice/proof of concept. I expect the marketing to kick in any week now and prove me wrong but it certainly seems delayed.

We've seen barely any of the city. On one hand, great for not spoiling the game. On the other, why have they chosen to show us nothing but daytime, and why did they choose what might be the most unimpressive (visually speaking!) district of the city for their big 2019 marketing push?

No idea how the skill tree functions. No idea what some of the more prominent abilities are (aside from the neat movement stuff in 2018). Heck, I don't even know a single thing about Techie, other than the fact that they use the flathead and bust open wall panels. Is it even a viable playstyle on its own like Netrunner and Solo, or just supplementary?

With all of this said, I'm still very excited about the game, and I still like CDPR a lot. I just don't understand what they're going for with the marketing, I suppose. I hope they do indeed ramp things up soon. I also figure if they're going to delay the game, they have to do it soon -- either this month or mid next month. So I think the next month or so will be very telling for us all, one way or another.
 
Considering they have stopped officially marketing the game as an RPG on their social media and promotional materials, I wouldn't get too excited unless your idea of a "groundbreaking western RPG" is a Far Cry or GTA clone with a small skill tree.
They did? I must have missed that.

As disappointed as I am to hear this I'm also overjoyed CP2077 isn't going to be falsely marketed, CDPR has earned a reputation for honestly, I'd hate to see them ruin it.

On the other hand shooter market is extremely contested and its very difficult to push through and succeed on that front. It may be better to invest in that niche market rather than trying to emphasize shooter aspects.
That'd be my assumption as well.

Why fight for a piece of an already saturated market? That's what seems to happen 90% of the time. One developer creates something new and different, then every other publisher (this I assume is more publisher then developer driven) fights to grab the "new" market the first offering revealed.

which may look bland, generic and uninteresting because players have gotten used to better quality.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.

Are you saying CP2077 is a lackluster shooter? Here I think most of us can agree.
 
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I still feel they've shown only a small sliver of the game, unlike their marketing for TW3. Why that is, I don't know, but it is a bit of a concern. We're 4 months away. Are we gonna see the skill tree? Weapon types? What exploration looks like? Driving? Melee? Anything more at all? Yes they have one long gameplay video but I'm certain that was vertical slice/proof of concept. I expect the marketing to kick in any week now and prove me wrong but it certainly seems delayed.
Ehhhh things didn't kick up until about 4 months out of the original release date (June 2014) in their last game. I think TW3 seemed like a more drawn out process mostly because it got delayed twice. We'll see ... but frankly I think we've already seen a lot.

Also, as far as gameplay was concerned ... we pretty much already know what we were getting back then. Swordplay, signs and potions (just like the other two games). So I dont think there was really a ton of mystery around that ... which is why it feels somewhat different. I think we'll have plenty of info before release.
 

Sild

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As disappointed as I am to hear this I'm also overjoyed CP2077 isn't going to be falsely marketed, CDPR has earned a reputation for honestly, I'd hate to see them ruin it.

Then rest assured.

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On the other hand shooter market is extremely contested and its very difficult to push through and succeed on that front. It may be better to invest in that niche market rather than trying to emphasize shooter aspects.. which may look bland, generic and uninteresting because players have gotten used to better quality.

I agree, shooter market is tough. If they do "generic shooter" combat ala Metro Exodus for example, I dont see much future for this series. Looks like CDPR have found quite interesting concept, little bit faster pace and slow. They could even throw in "streak system" etc. If you do shooter combat, you gotta throw own spin on it, imho.
 
This is also what I've been asking for for years, and from what I understand, it's what they're attempting to do.

Miles Tost even came on these very forums some time ago and said that they plan to make weapons get more accurate over time, and handle better, etc. I can try to find his specific post, but I'm certain you were there when it happened, so perhaps your memory is more reliable than my own.

At any rate, this is one area where I'm willing to be at least a teensy bit hopeful. If nothing else, I think the game will have some sort of noticeable improvement to weapon handling as V gets better.

I've read an example on this: if you proficiency with shotguns is low, you will be reloading one shell at the time. When you proficiency increases, you will be reloading both barrels at once.
 
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I've read an example on this: if you proficiency with shotguns is low, you will be reloading one shell at the time. When you proficiency increases, you will reloading both barrels at once.
Well, from the game philosophy you should be the one actually doing the reload manually.
 
I think we know 95% of the game systems already:
-skill tree was shown (not in every details but it's mainly passive bonuses)
-looting was shown (whether we'll see the same weapon in both legendary and common versions we don't know)
-levels and bullet sponges were shown
-stealth and hacking were shown
-dialogues were shown
-techie was not shown but they said it's mainly using bots
-people who watched the behind closed door demo also saw that driving, gunplay and AI are far from excellence. Very far.

except for the last ones, the rest won't change for sure.

What was not shown is how these things work together in a non-controlled environment (= when the player is not a dev showcasing ahis/her game) but that's not gonna happen until other people outside CDPR will put their hands on the game. And the number of vehicles in crowded areas. Why this was not shown? I leave the speculations to you. I have a couple of pessimistic ideas.
 
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