As I understand the project, and from what I know of the setting, I can't imagine a PC without a professionnal occupation, with skills and knowledge attached to that occupation, ie : roles. In my mind, roles are meant to created balanced parties with inter-dependant relationships between the characters. You need someone who may crack a datafort : you need a netrunner. You need someone to play with big guns : you need a solo...
Roles are good for parties because no one can master each and every skill and be a master of all situations.
If CP 2077 is not going to give us control of a party, but is a solo game (like Witcher / Skyrim and unlike KotOR / Dragon Age), roles are useless : each character concept will end up with the same skills (heavily combat oriented) in the end.
Roles are good for parties because no one can master each and every skill and be a master of all situations.
If CP 2077 is not going to give us control of a party, but is a solo game (like Witcher / Skyrim and unlike KotOR / Dragon Age), roles are useless : each character concept will end up with the same skills (heavily combat oriented) in the end.
I think that roles can be fun in some games, but for an open world rpg, Skyrim sets that standard. You can play any style you choose, but you get perks faster by activating a specific standing stone. If you wanted to be a mage, you probably joined the mages college, warrior to the companions, rogue to thief's guild.
I would definitely like to see something like this for cyberpunk. If you want to be media, you have to join a tv station, cop to police, corporate to a megacorp... or w/e, and then you have to work your way up the ranks. If you're in media, having a few side skills in netrunner might help you gather info or something.
so I'd prefer the open class style on this game.
I would definitely like to see something like this for cyberpunk. If you want to be media, you have to join a tv station, cop to police, corporate to a megacorp... or w/e, and then you have to work your way up the ranks. If you're in media, having a few side skills in netrunner might help you gather info or something.
so I'd prefer the open class style on this game.
I am the terror that flaps in the night
I am the feathery phantom that haunts your nightmares
I... am Darkwind Duck!
I guess it depends how the Game will be closer or similar to the original RPG. I get your point DMaple and I can even agree but I wouldn't mind having the class just for nostalgia.
Oooh! 10d6 damage! Semi-auto, but whoopee. Semi is more accurate anyway when shooting at...ducks.
So. Roles are in. Check out the interview with Mike P at obskures.de
Now, he does say nothing's fixed, of course, and he doesn't say how determinative those Roles are, but they are definitely referencing them at this point.
So. Roles are in. Check out the interview with Mike P at obskures.de
Now, he does say nothing's fixed, of course, and he doesn't say how determinative those Roles are, but they are definitely referencing them at this point.
I don't like roles. I'm more a fan of Status/Attitude(Interface Magazine vol 2 issue 2 page 40). Satus is the profession, attitude is how you see the world. A C-SWATer have autority as status, combat sense as attitude. An investigator can have autority/research or autority/streetdeal (depending on the attitude of the investigator). Corp operative would be recources/combat sense and the nomad mechanic family/jury rig.
I feel somehow like we're all missing the point here on Roles.
Reading through most posts we are all thinking about how other games have done skill/classes/advancement systems before.
Personally I think we need to think more deeply then the functional systems behind what we traditionally consider "roles" "classes" & even "skills".
I'm interested in the idea of the Role you choose changing the narrative choices and the type of story you're told Rache here is opening up what is interesting about the roles:
Roles would make perfect narrative devices to drive different mission sets or a "Rahsamon" multiplexity of experiences of the same mission based on role.
The next question is oriented towards the Special Ability associated with each role - how should this be handled?
I think each special ability should not only affect the skill rolls they are related to, but also expand out into things like unique dialogue options, missions, in game opportunities and social dynamics/NPC responses.
When your a cop and your flashing your badge you should have an option to demand a COP commands when speaking to people.
Nomads calling in your family or a favor from someone who is connected to your tribe is important too.
Getting overly stuck in "Oh why don't all characters have combat sense - they all fight?" Or "Cops are exposed to violence too!" is really ridiculous thinking. You the player is the one limiting your character if you think just because your not a solo and can't max out your initiative to go first in combat you shouldn't invest in combat abilities or 'ware is ridiculous. Or if your a solo who thinks why invest in social skills? SAs don't limit you they contexualize and give you benefits that make sense as they represent your characters defining experiences up to that point. For me personally If they go with the full 10 point skill max system I'd like to see all SAs capped at 5 so people put less "value" in them functionally and go more with the story dimensions of role choice.
Reading through most posts we are all thinking about how other games have done skill/classes/advancement systems before.
Personally I think we need to think more deeply then the functional systems behind what we traditionally consider "roles" "classes" & even "skills".
I'm interested in the idea of the Role you choose changing the narrative choices and the type of story you're told Rache here is opening up what is interesting about the roles:
Roles would make perfect narrative devices to drive different mission sets or a "Rahsamon" multiplexity of experiences of the same mission based on role.
The next question is oriented towards the Special Ability associated with each role - how should this be handled?
I think each special ability should not only affect the skill rolls they are related to, but also expand out into things like unique dialogue options, missions, in game opportunities and social dynamics/NPC responses.
When your a cop and your flashing your badge you should have an option to demand a COP commands when speaking to people.
Nomads calling in your family or a favor from someone who is connected to your tribe is important too.
Getting overly stuck in "Oh why don't all characters have combat sense - they all fight?" Or "Cops are exposed to violence too!" is really ridiculous thinking. You the player is the one limiting your character if you think just because your not a solo and can't max out your initiative to go first in combat you shouldn't invest in combat abilities or 'ware is ridiculous. Or if your a solo who thinks why invest in social skills? SAs don't limit you they contexualize and give you benefits that make sense as they represent your characters defining experiences up to that point. For me personally If they go with the full 10 point skill max system I'd like to see all SAs capped at 5 so people put less "value" in them functionally and go more with the story dimensions of role choice.
Check out my opening post in this thread
http://www.cyberpunk.net/forum/en/threads/325-Story-mission-structure-different-Roles-and-fitting-them-all-together?p=7749#post7749
It lays out a story design and role options for the game that matches precisely what you are talking about.
WHoa...ErMAH GaWd...I agree with it all!!!! Hilarioulsy I forgot that you posted it b/c I read it first then read all the other posts and by the time I got ready to make mine my mind had assimilated your ideas and made me think they were my own.....
Leonardo Wisdom Decapri000 is that YOU? INCEPTION!!!!! X_X!!!!!
I hope to see something like this in the game, what a great idea.
I do want roles in this game. I might be happy with whatever these guys come up with but my money's on the roles. It's because Cyberpunk has some of the most exotic roles in RPGs. I really, really want them to pay special attention to the subversive Rockerboys and the Media roles. There are many reasons why cyberpunk works have gone for the poilce or military story (like my all time favourite Ghost in the Shell, where the police story lends itself to present many different stories in the form of cases on how crime can evolve, or the original Deus Ex where your enemies first call you a fascist and then a terrorist), but in some of the more foundational and seminal works... aren't they the enemy?
But I digress. Where I wanted to get to is that in a fantasy RPG you can be a warrior, a wizard, a priest... enter a village, look for the tavern, look for quest... but you can't do that with cyberpunk! These are jobs as in... JOBS. And I think there is a way to balance the "I do this because my boss says so" (that's what being on a payroll is) and "this is what I really want to do" (being subversive! Like the unawakened Neo, you are a code monkey by day and a hacker/fencer by night).
But I digress. Where I wanted to get to is that in a fantasy RPG you can be a warrior, a wizard, a priest... enter a village, look for the tavern, look for quest... but you can't do that with cyberpunk! These are jobs as in... JOBS. And I think there is a way to balance the "I do this because my boss says so" (that's what being on a payroll is) and "this is what I really want to do" (being subversive! Like the unawakened Neo, you are a code monkey by day and a hacker/fencer by night).