Do You Think Cyberpunk 2077 (as of now) is an Immersive Sim game?

[Didacgomez]

If I take that from wikipedia (which maybe wrong). It seem to correspond quite well.

For example, there is a door which is locked and I don't have the skill to open it. Well, it up to me to find a way to open it, go around it or find another way to enter (steal the key, kill a dude, convice someone to open it, find a "free pass" somewhere, find another door not locked or a low level one which don't require any skill...). Lot of quests (not alls, indeed) let to players a real liberty on what and how to do. Knowing that generally the quest simply point out the final objective.

In my last playthrough, an optional objective was to reduce the defenses of the enemies before the attack (put poison in the food and burn the arrows). With my character, no way to do it discreetly... I had good armor and good weapons (but not good combat skills...), so I decided to kill everyone patiently one by one (luring them ouside the camp) and complete the objective after, in the empty camp.

Edit : I don't think the fact that a skill blocks a specific path is a problem, because precisely it pushes you to find an alternative path, whatever it is. If you could open the door regardless of your skill, what's the point of racking your brains trying to find another way. Like in Prey with Hacking or Repair "skills" which lock you some paths, but it forces you to find others

But for me the difference is: in traditional RPG you invest in a skill, as you progress the game you will need to continue to invest in that skill (be it combat,stealth,persuade,pickpocket,lockpick...) because the difficulty curve keeps going up so you will not be able to be effective (level 1 lockpick vs level 10 lockpick) this typically leads that you need to neglect other skills if the "currency"-xp,points per level or per action...- is not given like candy.
On the other hand, if picking a skill opens new pathways but doesn't enforce you to keep them constantly upgraded thats different. Of course, you might find paths closed if you didn't invest on that skill but new skills open new pathways and is up to the player to use them as they see fit (i.e
you can switch between a stealth assasin or a melee brawler practically on the fly at any point once you get the relevant skills).

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But for me the difference is: in traditional RPG you invest in a skill, as you progress the game you will need to continue to invest in that skill (be it combat,stealth,persuade,pickpocket,lockpick...) because the difficulty curve keeps going up so you will not be able to be effective (level 1 lockpick vs level 10 lockpick) this typically leads that you need to neglect other skills if the "currency"-xp,points per level or per action...- is not given like candy.
On the other hand, if picking a skill opens new pathways but doesn't enforce you to keep them constantly upgraded thats different. Of course, you might find paths closed if you didn't invest on that skill but new skills open new pathways and is up to the player to use them as they see fit (i.e
you can switch between a stealth assasin or a melee brawler practically on the fly at any point once you get the relevant skills).

Ok, thanks
So I will be annoying, but I think KCD still fit
Unlike cyberpunk where when you invest in one attribute, you can't invest in another, KCD system don't "lock" anything.
Each skill have his leveling system, point and perks. In short, you are able, if you practice each skills enough indeed, to be a good archer, a good fists fighter, a good thief, a good assassin, a good alchemist, a good horseman or a good mace/sword/axe fighter. So you can be "good at everything" (my last playthrough, I was almost at 20, the max, in each skill)
There are very few perks which lock other perks, but it's always in the same skill (like able speaching nobles or poors, sleep in good or bad beds, fast horse or "strong" horse).

 

[Didacgomez]

Each skill have his leveling system, point and perks. In short, you are able, if you practice each skills enough indeed, to be a good archer, a good fists fighter, a good thief, a good assassin, a good alchemist, a good horseman or a good mace/sword/axe fighter. So you can be "good at everything" (my last playthrough, I was almost at 20, the max, in each skill)
There are very few perks which lock other perks, but it's always in the same skill (like able speaching nobles or poors, sleep in good or bad beds, fast horse or "strong" horse).

But this sounds more like a bad RPG progression system no?, if its based on grinding goes into my "if the "currency"-xp,points per level or per action...- is not given like candy."-which was my main and only post to complain to CDPR about CP2077... don´t give that many attribute/perk points , lower the level cap- Being able to choose gameplay style, doesn´t imply that you don´t need to "suffer" the consequences.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Yep, good point. By leveling enough, you should be able to do everything, except in some limited situation which require a perk that you can't have because you chose another one.
But I wouldn't say it's bad, it's different (and fun, for me at least^^)

 

[Didacgomez]

But I wouldn't say it's bad, it's different (and fun, for me at least^^)

We've talked enough times in the forum so you know I'm not a "taliban" of RPG purity, so if I can rephrase it will be "not my favorite style of character progression system in a RPG since it tends to be quite easy to break"; but if people find it fun I have 0 problems with that (and doesn´t move the RPGness of a game for this).

 

[Tvaroog]

After, it's "easy to imagine (for me at least) that in a world where cyber-eyes are common, some sort of overlay which help to identify enemies/threat is possible (unlike in medieval/fantasy world).

Yes, although I think reading minds telepathically is beyond the technological capabilities of this universe. I think Geralt is more likely to posses a spider sense.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Yes, although I think reading minds telepathically is beyond the technological capabilities of this universe. I think Geralt is more likely to posses a spider sense.

What do you mean by "reading minds telepathically" ?
Because as I see it, it's more like a scan to know if an enemy is a gang member (so possibily hostile), what types of cyberware are installed and what types of weapons are carried. Then it deduce which kind of enemy you're facing, and the result is displayed as an icon above his head with an overlay (in augmented reality).
And for the "detection" icon, there are already technology which are able to detect where your gaze is directed and therefore where your attention is directed. So it's not impossible to detect when an enemy is focusing on you and show it as an icon above is head, again, with an overlay.
Like the ammo counter, the palm of your hand has an implant that connects with your weapon and displays in real time the number of ammo in your magazine as an overlay.
Anyway, for me, in Cyberpunk, it seems more logical than in many games to have a HUD with lots of information about your surroundings

On a side note, Arasaka is already able to transfert, copy, reproduce, store and edit human minds. With the Peralez, some poeple can also rewrite, edit and delete human minds directly on living people.

 

[siriguillo]

Only the whole food mission match the definition.

It is not an immersive open world game either, it lacks too much detail

 

[dogsounds]

I think it is not, really, but it *could* be more simmy. I play with my character overburdened which limits me to walking speed when on foot, which certainly helps me "roleplay" a little more, and it does help me feel more rooted in the world. But I think the one thing that stops this being an interactive sim is that the world feels indifferent to your presence. Other than running away when the shooting starts, there is no real "life" to background NPCs. They are not doing anything, they do not react to your existence in any meaningful way and they rarely even respond when you rescue them from an assault. It would be possible to create a more immersive city, of course, but given the development history of the game it is unrealistic to expect CDPR to have created world interaction on that level or even on a basic level such as in, say, Skyrim or similar.

To me, I can certainly force an immersion in the world - limit movement to walking, avoid fast travel, use cars only if absolutely necessary - which helps me feel "in" the world. But it's a one-way hug - the world doesn't really hug back.

 

[yngccc]

Thank god it is not, there is nothing FUN about immersive sims(whatever that means). Give me vehicle combat and more actions!

 

[dalenotchip]

Absolutely not a Sim. The game feels like those old choose your own adventure books. You are presented with a few locations that you can make decisions that mildly change the stories end. With leveling up missions along the way that aren't connected to the actual narrative.

At this stage of the game, it's great fun. The ability to play the game in so many different play styles is very nice.

But their story, although well written, is way to narrow to be considered anything but a meandering linear story. With many places that feel like they just pause if you start doing all the gigs and police calls.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

It's closing it for sure. The gigs and missions that revolve around those kind of missions exist.

But yet, it is not an RPG. It does not give you a sufficiently malleable role, it doesn't give you the means of playing a malleable role you want, it doesn't *want* to give you a malleable role like that.

It can be construed as an immersive sim, that's for sure, but it is not an RPG by any stretch of the word.

Thank you and have a good night.