Documenting "Features", AI Habbits, and Oddities in Physics

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Edited to include the subtitle: Personal Experiences in the world of Cyberpunk 2077 in 2021.


After Freedom of the Press, I decided to escort Max Jones. Regina Jones mentioned no delivery driver, and I did not trust the man in the taxi.


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After a long voyage through the core of Night City, an answered call from Panam leads to a marker placed out west. Coincidentally, Max is being led further and further from Kabuki. Perhaps this driver may be an imposter...

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Is the driver of this vehicle directed toward the main mission marker? Do any vehicles V stands on follow map marker cues? This will require further testing.
 
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Devs didn't code it the way you hope and expected players to do just as the game said. The behaviour you see is completely random and you should pay attention to what you do with cyberpunk. I've seen people completely corrupt their save files trying to test and force the game in doing things not intended by Devs.

You know, the game is pretty fragile per se.
 
It kinda does until it doesn't. You can get your car to pass you and never stop when calling it. Jump on it's roof and so far every time it started off in the general direction of marker, but wait long enough and it goes some random way. Went from Wellsprings Pumping Station all the way to Edge-wood Farm in RockyRidge with a detour trough downtown.
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Approximate route. Didn't notice any other pattern regarding traffic lights, obstacles or other objects that would influence route. Seemed to alight with wherever other cars were going in that lane and section. Only odd thing was stopping at various billboards and overhanging constructions without any apparent traffic lights on them. Then i fell off and couldn't catch up to it any more.
 
I sat on a few cars to see where they go. Max, the doctor women that was held at the clinic in Watson, Dex, and the unknown important Chiinese military one. They all turn in circle without ever going to the location they should go or any precise location for that matter. After a long while, they disappear.
 
Heh...curious. Perhaps what happens is that cars close to V try to travel in the same direction for a while to cut down on the amount of new traffic the engine has to calculate. I suppose if you continuously reload the game and jump on a random car, you can see how many of them make it to the final destination.

Interesting!
 

"DOCUMENTING "FEATURES", AI HABBITS, AND ODDITIES IN PHYSICS"

In the earlier months of the game, I followed Claire after each race to see whether she actually went to her garage. She would get very far, which I thought was awesome, but at some 2m driven, she would get stuck, and wouldn't drive no more.
Other drivers would do the same until the patch when every car would come to a stop without reason.

All drivers from then on, wouldn't drive at all. Stayed like that, till 1.3. Although, some drivers could drive again, most of them still couldn't get very far. Still need to follow Claire again to see whether or not she can make it to her garage, in this current patch.
 
During Riders on the Storm, after a summoning of my personal on call storage facilities at the front gates of the compound...



I discover a barricade which may be the difference between life and death.

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This may have had prevented the imminent AI rush after Saul's rescue...

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yet several reloads reveal inconsistent, unique, patterns. After rushing toward the stairwell, the vehicle intercepts AI detection and prevents AI movement toward V's location. Entering the vehicle allows for AI to detect V and an invincible Saul.

After exiting the vehicle. Saul eats every bullet, a possible side effect from the Nomad adrenaline drug. He interacts with the vehicle pathing collision, sometimes, but after a number of object collisions will ghost through the vehicle. If V moves far enough from this instance, Saul will teleport and the AI will read the vehicle as an object interrupting the pathway about a quarter of the time. Proximity to the vehicle affects the AI movement. At the furthest distance most will ignore the object, yet not all AI may respond to the detection alert.

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Saul does not care. He will shoot through your property.

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also, upon initially entering this room, AI may warp in sometimes. Possibly warping through the floor or loading in later.

... also also.... I initially took the tunnel out ;p
 

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The way this game produces 'activity' in your vicinity is that it requires your presence basically.

The way I can word it is that the game "stuff" around you (the Pedestrians, the cars being driven around on roads, etc) exists because YOU are there; rather than because "IT" is there. Meaning that the game systems, scripts, etc... it's dependent on YOU being there, in order for the 'radius' of activity of things to exist within to even be there in the first place. So essentially, the player character is the 'center of scrips generation' and movement around (for Pedestrians, Cars, and anything else in the radius of activity that moves around).

SO...

The reason why I say this is because the irony of observation of A.I. routines like staying on the roof of a car to see how far it would go means that you can ONLY observe such behavior in the first place because YOU are there. In other words, that car you stand on would CEASE TO EXIST once it 'passes outside the radius' that you probably don't see yourself as a player because it's far enough into the distance (and because Night City is filled enough with infrastructure as to block view in general of the 'horizon' point; where you'd see things pop out of existence).

But if you physically stay on a car, then the car itself CAN exist for as long as you can stay on it, because... well because you're there, you're the center of 'existence' and for things to pop into view. However, even doing that has its limitations because the developers didn't obviously program a full 24/7 Life Simulation into every spawnable cars and Pedestrians into the game. So even if A.I. scripts for Pedestrians and Cars can "pop" into existence from the edge of your player radius, it doesn't mean that they were coded to do 'something' for more than 10 minutes.

It's not a system like... for example like in Skyrim, where you have literal A.I. 24/7 Packages that gives 'life' and 'purpose' (although very basis and rudimentary, but it's there) to specific Named and 'fixed' NPCs that 'belong' to specific Towns that would enter their own designated house where they actually live at night when the sun goes down to go sleep on their actual bed; then wake up at the same hour every morning to leave their house and go to the local Town market until midday, to then leave Town and walk out to a nearby Inn and sit on a random bench and stay there until 6 in the afternoon. THAT sort of "life simulation" simply does not exist in this game, because it wasn't ever worked on ever, at all, at any point, during development.

All the cars and Pedestrians just move about in random directions without goal nor purpose in this game, it's just there for appearance within the player's radius of activity; and outside of that radius there is merely nothing being generated, and only the general city infrastructure exists in a permanent fashion. So what I'm trying to say in the end here that trying to observe any sort of semi-intelligent or logical A.I. routine or behavior in this game is an exercise in futility.
 
^guies tryna make me
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lose my hair?
I appreciate the in depth response plannings,
but I only read the first and last paragraphs. I'm not about to be driving like this guy... into my own vehicle spawn nonetheless...
 

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Guest 3847602

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It's not a system like... for example like in Skyrim, where you have literal A.I. 24/7 Packages that gives 'life' and 'purpose' (although very basis and rudimentary, but it's there) to specific Named and 'fixed' NPCs that 'belong' to specific Towns that would enter their own designated house where they actually live at night when the sun goes down to go sleep on their actual bed; then wake up at the same hour every morning to leave their house and go to the local Town market until midday, to then leave Town and walk out to a nearby Inn and sit on a random bench and stay there until 6 in the afternoon. THAT sort of "life simulation" simply does not exist in this game, because it wasn't ever worked on ever, at all, at any point, during development.
I mean, is that even surprising? The entire population of Skyrim is about 1000 people. That's probably about as much as you'll encounter during the trip between V's apartment and Afterlife. Such simulation is not even close to being possible in the game of this scale.
 
I mean, is that even surprising? The entire population of Skyrim is about 1000 people. That's probably about as much as you'll encounter during the trip between V's apartment and Afterlife. Such simulation is not even close to being possible in the game of this scale.

Yeah, I know. That was my point. I was simply trying to do a "reality check" call to the original poster. That what he's trying to do is in vain in this game. There's never going to be a game on this scale with a 24/7 dynamic (or scripted) day-to-night life cycle on individual Pedestrians, let alone adding such a scenario on Car drivers around the whole game world.

It can only be done in a game where - despite the actual size of the game itself being large nonetheless - the total number of NPCs is far more limited and 'fixed' around specific portions of said map (towns, cities, etc; whereas in the middle it's just mountains and wild life).

The same applies to GTA games since they went 3D with GTA3. And if I'm not mistaken in GTA5 there actually _is_ a "life simulation" going on, BUT it is of course limited to specific named characters that are part of the main story in single-player mode. I know this much because when I start up my game, "my character" I happen to be playing as is doing side activities "on his own" that I didn't do myself the last time I saved the game (I.E. I could save the game last time while standing right in front of the strip club, but the next time I load my game my character is doing a bycicle ride near a park 10 neighborhoods away).

Arguably, that GTA5 system of giving a "life simulation" to _specific_ named characters within Night City could have been done, maybe to just a few select characters BUT... the problem with Night City is that there IS nothing to do anyway with the City, nothing to interact with. There's no such thing as just taking a bike and riding around Night City "for fun" that wouldn't be part of a quest and you'd just be able to do as a side activity like in GTA. There's no such thing as going to a Night City harbor and pay to have some round-the-city boat trip for fun, or a Helicopter ride or... there's just literally nothing to do, be it for us the player, or even for a would-be autonomous A.I. with a life cycle programmed into it.

So yeah, trying to follow a car around to see where it goes, or following a Pedestrian to see what he or she does has absolutely no purpose in Night City, it's all for appearance, and said "for appearance" is greatly limited to a radius around the player, beyond which nothing actually exists in the game save for the city infrastructure itself.
 
Yeah, I know. That was my point. I was simply trying to do a "reality check" call to the original poster. That what he's trying to do is in vain in this game. There's never going to be a game on this scale with a 24/7 dynamic (or scripted) day-to-night life cycle on individual Pedestrians, let alone adding such a scenario on Car drivers around the whole game world.

It can only be done in a game where - despite the actual size of the game itself being large nonetheless - the total number of NPCs is far more limited and 'fixed' around specific portions of said map (towns, cities, etc; whereas in the middle it's just mountains and wild life).

The same applies to GTA games since they went 3D with GTA3. And if I'm not mistaken in GTA5 there actually _is_ a "life simulation" going on, BUT it is of course limited to specific named characters that are part of the main story in single-player mode. I know this much because when I start up my game, "my character" I happen to be playing as is doing side activities "on his own" that I didn't do myself the last time I saved the game (I.E. I could save the game last time while standing right in front of the strip club, but the next time I load my game my character is doing a bycicle ride near a park 10 neighborhoods away).

Arguably, that GTA5 system of giving a "life simulation" to _specific_ named characters within Night City could have been done, maybe to just a few select characters BUT... the problem with Night City is that there IS nothing to do anyway with the City, nothing to interact with. There's no such thing as just taking a bike and riding around Night City "for fun" that wouldn't be part of a quest and you'd just be able to do as a side activity like in GTA. There's no such thing as going to a Night City harbor and pay to have some round-the-city boat trip for fun, or a Helicopter ride or... there's just literally nothing to do, be it for us the player, or even for a would-be autonomous A.I. with a life cycle programmed into it.

So yeah, trying to follow a car around to see where it goes, or following a Pedestrian to see what he or she does has absolutely no purpose in Night City, it's all for appearance, and said "for appearance" is greatly limited to a radius around the player, beyond which nothing actually exists in the game save for the city infrastructure itself.
Although you are absolutely right, it is a pity that a certain routine was not coded for the NPCs. For example depending on the neighborhood of the city. It could only activate on the NPCs around you. And that following one of them will take you to a workplace or a block of flats, to disappear. But it would generate a good dose of realism. It would not have to happen in the whole city, only in those NPCs that were in your visual field for example for a few minutes. It would be very cool.
 
There's never going to be a game on this scale with a 24/7 dynamic (or scripted) day-to-night life cycle on individual Pedestrians, let alone adding such a scenario on Car drivers around the whole game world.

It can only be done in a game where - despite the actual size of the game itself being large nonetheless - the total number of NPCs is far more limited and 'fixed' around specific portions of said map (towns, cities, etc; whereas in the middle it's just mountains and wild life).
100% agree. This is the reality in a nutshell.

For now...

The problem is not that it can't be done. It's surely possible since 64-bit processing became a thing. The big issue, as you sort of define, is that the sheer amount of processing that would need to be done for it to affect that many NPCs in real time...not so much. Performance would be dragged into the gutter.

Plus, while certainly many NPCs are on simple walking loops and stuff, I'm still seeing a lot of difference between day and night in the city. There are definitely crowds that appear only after the sun sets, and other areas that become much more sparse during the evening.

Overall, it really doesn't serve much of a purpose to look too closely at the illusions created by this or that game. Even games that really do offer NPCs with detailed day and night cycles, there's only so much that can be done with it. LIke the Gothic/Risen games. Yeah, it's really cool that a character wakes up, eats breakfast, walks to work and actually does their job, takes a break to go pee or have a smoke, returns home and sits at their own table for supper, reads a book, then actually sleeps through the night. It's awesome...until you realize they perform that exact same pattern every single day. They can be found peeing in the exact same spot at the exact same time every day.

The grass is always greener...
 
Just a reminder... this post was made understanding the points the comments are choosing to fixate on.

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(the analytical observer will note the physics of forward momentum and gravity as well as familiarity with the location and angle of the slope on the physical plane. Yes, one may change poses at will, but this was the natural stance during screen capture.)

I should get back to playing soonish...
 
Such simulation is not even close to being possible in the game of this scale.
I beg to differ. Most strategy, base building or economy games would demonstrate the opposite without barely touching any CPU time or RAM.

IMHO the biggest problem is actual presentation and retaining atmosphere. There is a hardware limit on how many NPCs you can render on screen and animate around player. If simulation makes 1000 people move to one area (e.g. to watch parade), you'd have tough time selecting just dozen and making it look sane. And you'd need insane balancing to keep militant gangs and player shenanigans from turning whole districts into abandoned war-zones or desirable areas into overcrowded zergling swarms. It can be simulated, the result just isn't what you'd wan't.
 
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Yeah, I know. That was my point. I was simply trying to do a "reality check" call to the original poster. That what he's trying to do is in vain in this game. There's never going to be a game on this scale with a 24/7 dynamic (or scripted) day-to-night life cycle on individual Pedestrians, let alone adding such a scenario on Car drivers around the whole game world.
I think the OP was just having a bit of fun with the game! It's fun to do daft things and find 'reasons' :)
 

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I beg to differ. You see plenty

I beg to differ. Most strategy, base building or economy games would demonstrate the opposite without barely touching any CPU time or RAM.

IMHO the biggest problem is actual presentation and retaining atmosphere. There is a hardware limit on how many NPCs you can render on screen and animate around player. If simulation makes 1000 people move to one area (e.g. to watch parade), you'd have tough time selecting just dozen and making it look sane. And you'd need insane balancing to keep militant gangs and player shenanigans from turning whole districts into abandoned war-zones or desirable areas into overcrowded zergling swarms. It can be simulated, the result just isn't what you'd wan't.
My point wasn't about just rendering and animating 1000 of people in player's vicinity, but making each of ~7 million Night City inhabitants unique, with their own daily routines, in the same way Skyrim treats its own NPCs. That thing is not possible.
 
7 million might be a tough call. But you got me curious... NC isn't nowhere near that big. It just has the makeup of big city, right? E.g Hong-Kong is 7 million and only the central part of it is 5x5km. 2077 center is 1x1km at best. So roughly 25x less ~ 280k people.

So what would you need for an unique NPC? An ID? 24bits, List of friends 50*24bits+flags 10bits Some state 8 bits, A mood 8 bits, profession 24bits, some basic flags 10bits, a clothing set 24bits? Their place of living 24bits... (TBH i'm being generous, most static attributes could be encoded in ID or optimized in other ways - like you don't need a specific home for everyone, just building or e.g. "vanishing point"). Anyway.. that gets me to something like 1824bits. Ok, cars and drinks and wardrobe. Lets make it 20kb for each NPC, most of it being static. That gives me 5.6Gb. DDR4-3200 has tranfer rate of 25.6Gbps meaning you could run trough that full, unoptimized list 4.5 times per second.

Sounds pretty rough, knowing they need to perform actions, change states, clothes and interact with others. All while processing heavy multi media loads at the same time. But on the other hand there is plenty to optimize, because full, real-time simulation would be needed only for those nearby and i doubt you need anywhere near 280k to make the street level appear so.
 
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