Does anyone like this autoleveled loot mechanics?

[Void Eclipse]

So, we have a quite finite set of weapons with randomized stats and bonuses, and overall stat scaling of loot drop, that depends on character's level.
Also we got enemies that scale with character, so, all the parts of the system cancel each other out and in the end we have constant combat dynamics and TTK (time to kill) through the entire game. So, if we ripped this scaling system out of the game, nothing will change, except placebo sense of progression.

Oh yes, and this system makes unique quest items into garbage 2 in hours after you get them.

Does anyone like it? Or would you like to see the system that feels more like New Vegas weapon system - weapons are static, they get bonuses form player's perks and weapon skill, but nothing like order or magnitude increase? So you try different weapons, pick your favourite ones and play with them without need to upgrade them or swap to better drops?

 

[Dagobert666]

Yes i agree!

And, All the "bullit sponge" opponents have to go. Why the hell can I go to the City Center after the PROLOGUE when every opponent can take more bullets than I can carry?

 

[Prae255]

If crafting was well implemented, it could've been fun to keep tinkering with a favorite weapon.
Sadly, it's not the case and you're better off just taking whatever drops.

 

[Void Eclipse]

I mean this is the same jump on a rake we've seen in the witcher 3. I don't think anyone asked for the same loot system again. There is a lot of great games with just a handful of equipment options (be it a weapon or a piece of armor), and everyone loves them, loves to stick with few things they like and keep playing with it for the entire game.

Current loot system: get a unique quest reward, throw it in a trash can immediately after.

Static items system: get a unique quest reward, keep it and enjoy it as a memory of the piece of story you went through.

 

[Schanana]

You can upgrade things! I mean... sure you're never gonna get a weapon you found during your first hour up to par with some higher ones but it's a start

I do think the game/world could be improved by having some special static leveled weapons tho!

 

[DuncanOConner]

It would be extremely boring in my eyes, to play 100 hour + with the same equipment.
I like to change things and I like the constant increase in numbers. Feels like progression and is what keeps me playing.

What I don't like is, that enemies level as well. That is the most stupid game design decision and it is seen so very often in games since a decade.

So, for me it would be perfect if my gear and V can become stronger, if I can out-level enemies and if nearly the whole city starts stronger and my power progression opens up areas step by step. ... Old school ...

Regards

 

[Void Eclipse]

You can upgrade things! I mean... sure you're never gonna get a weapon you found during your first hour up to par with some higher ones but it's a start

I do think the game/world could be improved by having some special static leveled weapons tho!

You can upgrade items BUT with each iteration they require more and more resources for further upgrade, so at some point upgrade cost won't be worth it, or you'll not have enough resources.

Post automatically merged: Dec 23, 2020

It would be extremely boring in my eyes, to play 100 hour + with the same equipment.
I like to change things and I like to the constant increase in numbers. Feels like progression and is what keeps me playing.

That's the point, you still play with the same equipment that looks and feels the same, do you really believe you get any progression by looking at some numbers in the inventory?

 

[alebersam]

I hate the item levels system, the worst part is that it is apparently more and more popular and more games implement it

 

[RazerFett]

nothing will change, except placebo sense of progression.

That^ line is Poetry.

& so true in so many games both single player and multi player.

Another fun fact, wanna be more powerful? = Grind for the best gear and mods or...

Just turn the difficulty down :S

Same result...

 

[warbaby2]

Nope, hate it... it's cheap, incredibly gamy, tedious and grindy. It should really have been: Static weapons with upgrading, modifying and perks... except, maybe iconics... like, you know, in a proper RPG?

The first thing modders hopefully will do is overhaul the whole gear and crafting systems.

 

[Rhyzur]

Iconics should at least have a reduced upgrade cost since they're most likely end game weapons, and if you pick them up at an early level, it is horrible to try to keep them on par even when you go heavy into crafting.

 

[Crow2891]

The player's current progression system needs to be completely overhauled. I fully agree that loot in the game does not make sense and just creates the illusion of gradual improvements. With such a system, there is no point in crafting, because no matter how low or high the prices for creating items are, the player will simply waste time and resources.

Now the game uses a system that is traditional for many RPGs, in which both the rarity and the level of an item determine its value to the player. This system only works well in games that have an endgame. When the item level always becomes equal to the player's level, rarity becomes the motivation for grinding. There is no endgame in Cyberpunk 2077. Autoleveling enemies also makes the level-based component of the loot system meaningless.

On the other hand, the current system allows the player to constantly pay attention to what is dropped by enemies. Without it, many will go through the game with one weapon and will not try to use others. The game already narrows the player's ability to use different guns too much through the perk system, and without the need to look for better weapons, it will become "one playthrough - one weapon".

Therefore, it will not be possible to simply change one part of the game, the loot system in this case, and fix something. It will take developers a long time to come up with an alternative, if they ever want to change something that somehow works.

I apologize for possible mistakes and incorrectly used words. English is not my first language, I use google translate to compose my comments.

 

[warbaby2]

Iconics should at least have a reduced upgrade cost since they're most likely end game weapons, and if you pick them up at an early level, it is horrible to try to keep them on par even when you go heavy into crafting.

Shows you even more that the game isn't meant to played for longer or even mutiple times, since people inavitably will hold off on picking up iconcs till the last possible moment.

 

[LambachRuthven]

I cheated crafting perks and mats, so I could upgrade weapons and clothes as needed. With all perks active to use less mats, it took me 5075 legendary components to keep 2 sets of clothes and around 8 weapons usable throughout the game. You can't possibly find 10% of these mats in the game, so the system is useless if you don't cheat.

I play Shadowrun Pen & Paper and my character doesn't change weapons at all. He has some assortment of different weapons suited to his strengths and choses from them which ones to take on a certain mission.

I wanted to have a few favorite weapon based on their looks and feels and not change it the whole time. I wanted to have my trusted Katana, that I build my Item-Mods around (500% Crit Katana supported by Crit-Chance mods). My one revolver for sneaking headshots. My one Shotgun for crowd control. This felt natural to me, as no one who fights changes his weaponry that much. You want to get used to your gear, so you know it inside out and can dismantle and repair it in the dark just by feels (thats what we trained in the Bundeswehr with the G3 rifle). You even have a packing order, so that you know where your comrade stashes his medpack or other important gear. It felt more professional to me than grabbing guns from your enemies all the time because DPS.

I don't think the system must be changed, if enough people enjoy it as it is. But I think having crafting as an option to enjoy having favorite weapons should be a possibility. I just don't think you should need to give up perks for that and the needed ressources are just not possible to obtain through fair play. Also you should be able to upgrade EVERY weapon, so that you kan keep them usable. Johnnys pistol as an example couldn't be upgraded, so it lost its punch very soon, which was sad beacause I liked using it very much. But when 3 headshots aren't enough, it doesn't feel like a heavy pistol anymore.

 

[Dagobert666]

I am also a real role player. I play Shadowrun, Cyberpunk 2020, D&D. No immersive RPG has a level power creep progression system. Everyone has a consistent world in which it is always dangerous for someone to point a gun in your face. No matter what level you or he is ...

That's a dumb Trent from looter shoters like Borderlands. In my opinion, that has no place in an RPG!

 

[DKDArtagnan]

I like it fine in theory, but the execution is atrocious. More or less exactly like Witcher 3, where people apparently didn't notice it.

It makes sense that all enemies are dropping weapons (so, tons of loot is inevitable) - and I do appreciate having a sense of progression. So, the concept is fine - if a little lazy and unimmersive.

However, the balance/scaling/difficulty of the game is so incredibly poor - that nothing about the loot will make a significant difference.

You can defeat everything in the entire game using nothing but Common items and Cyberware stuff. In fact, I doubt you even need any perks activated if you're playing a little carefully.

Of course, it doesn't exactly help that they introduced static enemy levels in a game that's supposed to be full of human beings with "real" weapons.

I mean, why is one human being with a little pistol 10000% tougher than another human being 50 meters away with an LMG?

This is ironic, because as lazy as their approach to scaling is - the one area that REALLY REALLY needed it would be the enemy levels.

They should simply scale the entire world and then add or subtract levels according to the threat level they intended for whatever quest, main story/gigs/sidequests included. Static enemy levels work fine in fantasy RPGs - where you can believe that a troll is tougher than a rat. But in "realistic" settings - human beings tend to be similarly full of blood and guts.

At the very least, if you scale everything in the game EXCEPT quest enemies, then at least do something other than a simplistic power curve that doesn't take anything except health and damage into account. As in, make high level enemies defeatable within reason - and don't just increase their health and damage pools to make them absurdly spongey (of course, you can still kill them with enough time and patience - because the AI is a joke). But that would take actual work - and I guess this rushed release didn't allow for that.

In this game - when you're low level in Act 2+ half the world is effectively full of damage sponge (very dumb) gods. But 30 hours later, when you're close to level cap - everyone is an ant that you can kill by merely looking at them.

What's wrong with this picture? Wash day tomorrow.

 

[Void Eclipse]

a consistent world in which it is always dangerous for someone to point a gun in your face. No matter what level you or he is ...

Totally agree about it, it should be a basis for a good RPG. I don't know many video games that even try to make a world as powerful system independent of player's status. Video games with such dangerous worlds as gothic 1 or gothic 2 don't appear in other games on regular basis.

 

[Moe_Lester555]

The only thing i know is, upgrading gear costs too much and i run out of materials constantly. Or did, before using duplication exploits. Well, i still do but now i can just dupe more of it. Still annoying, tho.

And as for the enemy upscaling, i like it. I'm playing on hard and the enemies already die pretty quickly, the last thing i'd want is for them to just drop dead and do a backflip with a single shot.

 

[Dagobert666]

The only thing i know is, upgrading gear costs too much and i run out of materials constantly. Or did, before using duplication exploits. Well, i still do but now i can just dupe more of it. Still annoying, tho.

And as for the enemy upscaling, i like it. I'm playing on hard and the enemies already die pretty quickly, the last thing i'd want is for them to just drop dead and do a backflip with a single shot.

It is totally ridiculous that a Malestrom Ganger (half human, half robot) should die from a bullet from my pistol. But a Valentino Ganger is still standing after more than 500 headshots. But when you're level 50 then everything, everyone, everywhere (except boss mobs) is one hit dead. Yes, the Witcher 3 had it that way too. But then luckily the Mod "Enhanced Edition" came along after that, W3 was finally a real RPG ....

 

[warbaby2]

It is totally ridiculous that a Malestrom Ganger (half human, half robot) should die from a bullet from my pistol. But a Valentino Ganger is still standing after more than 500 headshots. But when you're level 50 then everything, everyone, everywhere (except boss mobs) is one hit dead. Yes, the Witcher 3 had it that way too. But then luckily the Mod "Enhanced Edition" came along after that, W3 was finally a real RPG ....

...and we'll probably get something similar for this game at some point.

Honestly,. though, I had a bit less of a problem with all that in TW3, atleast as long Geralt did fight monsters... with magical swords. There just is much more room for suspension of disbelief in such a scenario. But in a semi realistic, "modern" setting? Not so much... a gun is a gun, a sword is a sword and human body is just human body... even taking into account body armor and specific cyberware like sub-dermal plating, a second hearts, etc.