Does Cyberpunk actually use AI for normal citizens?

[faverodefavero]

We can agree to disagree and I appreciate the politeness and discussion with you.

I would 100% agree with you if we had a huge long main quest and huge side quest chains (hundreds hours long like classic RPGs) all branching and interlacing, and the game didn't felt so linear. I love some characters too. Again, I just feel not enough time went into the creating the game's main story nor side quests, which ahould have more options, be much much longer, and interlace and branch way more... those aspects would justify what you are saying to me.

As of right now it feels all money went not into the story, side quests, or gameplay, those portions feel like they got 10% of the game's budget to me. All the majority of their budget to me feels like went to graphics, new unoptimized buggy engine, voice acting and Keanu Reeves and that's it.

It definitely doesn't feel likr 8 years and 150milion USD$ gameplay nor story nor NPC behavior nor sidequests to me, not even 3 years and 100milion USD$. But it does feel like all that money went to graphics and voice acting, among other things thar are not directly gameplay and story / sidequests related. That is how I feel when playing the game.

Again I get that it's weird for some people. But that is how TW3 operated and it was hailed for years despite its crappy pedestrians that couldn't even go around Roach that's blocking the road. Different companies just have different design philosophies, and this one has this and will always be this:

Story comes first in the making of Cyberpunk 2077

We speak to CD Projekt Red about the granular details of 2018's biggest reveal.

www.pcgamer.com

And well.. a lot of us are ok with that. I still prefer to sit down in this game and listen to Takemura or Judy or Rivers going on and on about their past as we simply watch the city go about and be pretty. Rather than shooting up civies and fighting cops. This is the demographic this game is aiming for. Not the GTA crowd.

 

[madmidder]

It was also in Witcher 2. Each NPC had his daily routines. There fishermen, loggers etc.. And it had probably no more than 50 inhabitants. It do not scale well with a city of ten of thousdands at least. It would have to be procedurally generated.

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

Improvement to base game always come for free in CDPR games. They only ask more money for big story focus expansions

That's what I said, there is no power to have 6 million people city and every inhabitant have their routine. Yeah there is definitely not 6mil people in Night City we can see in the game, but tens of thousands are not possible. I believe not even thousands are possible.

I think there is only one game where inhabitants have their routines (and very simple routines!) and you can have them tens of thousands and that's Cities Skylines, but that's just a little bit different game from Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[IskrasFemme]

I think I misunderstood your post. You are machine translating after all. Sometimes it just doesn't translate all that well.

This sucks a lot ---> google translate. I want say apple and google type like 'elephant' some times...

 

[GrimReaper801]

All the majority of their budget to me feels like went to graphics, new unoptimized buggy engine, voice acting and Keanu Reeves and that's it.

Hey, you can't be angry at them for throwing piles of money at Keanu Reeves. The guy is wholesome.

-Not aimed at Favero past here-

In all seriousness, the story comes first is a great design philosophy but that doesn't mean that all the system surrounding it have to be forgotten. Furthermore, as Favero said, the story just isn't good enough to make up for everything else. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just not enough.

Heck, if even your choices actually had major impacts. Right now, you've got multiple choices in most conversation but most of these choices have no impact or consequences at all.

Say, for example, the main quest takes you to Cloud 9 to find Evelyn. You end up with a doll that you can choose to have a deep conversation with. This conversation changes nothing, nothing at all. You can skip it and it won't change a thing. Then you wake the doll up and you are quickly given 3 choices:

- Ask politely where Evelyn is
- Threaten the doll for info
- Pay for info.

All three options lead to the exact same result. The choice simply doesn't matter and changes nothing. The game is riddled with these fake choices that lead to the exact same result. Your biggest choices is which ending you want, then you're thrown back into the city.

Once you realize that's all there is to the story, you're left with a world that feels lifeless and a very disappointing story. I'm all for story first but that story better be good and the elements around it should be, at the very least, decent.

This sucks a lot ---> google translate. I want say apple and google type like 'elephant' some times...

Do you actually understand English or you need to machine translate it to your own language? If you understand it, why not just write in English, it can't be worse than machine translating it.

 

[Mk3rd]

would 100% agree with you if we had a huge long main quest and huge side quest chains (hundreds hours long like classic RPGs) all branching and interlacing, at the game didn't felt so linear. I love some characters too. Again, I just feel not enough time went into the creating the game's main story nor side quests, which ahould have more options, be much much longer, and interlace and branch way more... those aspects would justify what you are saying to me.

I'm with you on this one. I think they touted to the crowd that said video games are too long. They didn't like that a loud minority kept saying that they didn't finish the TW3 because it dragged on for too long. So now they compromised big time on the game's length. I can't say anything about replayability because I'm 72hrs in my very 1st playthrough. But I heard there are 5 endings.

I almost feel like the biggest part of the budget went into making this huge vertical map possible to render in one fast loading screen with Raytracing on. Dunno.. but for sure the marketing really looked like it had a massive budget for it. Shame it ended in a PR nightmare cause higher-ups/marketing and the devs were like living in 2 separate worlds. One was marketing for the mainstream while the devs made a game for an entirely different demographic.

But well what's worth it and what's not depends on who's buying. I'm definitely having a worthwhile time with the characters while its still lasting. And it's cheaper than Valhalla and WDL before the sales that's for sure.

 

[faverodefavero]

Dude, you 100% got it. Nailed exactly what I meant. Thank you for putting it in a better writen way.

Hey, you can't be angry at them for throwing piles of money at Keanu Reeves. The guy is wholesome.

-Not aimed at Favero past here-

In all seriousness, the story comes first is a great design philosophy but that doesn't mean that all the system surrounding it have to be forgotten. Furthermore, as Favero said, the story just isn't good enough to make up for everything else. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just not enough.

Heck, if even your choices actually had major impacts. Right now, you've got multiple choices in most conversation but most of these choices have no impact or consequences at all.

Say, for example, the main quest takes you to Cloud 9 to find Evelyn. You end up with a doll that you can choose to have a deep conversation with. This conversation changes nothing, nothing at all. You can skip it and it won't change a thing. Then you wake the doll up and you are quickly given 3 choices:

- Ask politely where Evelyn is
- Threaten the doll for info
- Pay for info.

All three options lead to the exact same result. The choice simply doesn't matter and changes nothing. The game is riddled with these fake choices that lead to the exact same result. Your biggest choices is which ending you want, then you're thrown back into the city.

Once you realize that's all there is to the story, you're left with a world that feels lifeless and a very disappointing story. I'm all for story first but that story better be good and the elements around it should be, at the very least, decent.



Do you actually understand English or you need to machine translate it to your own language? If you understand it, why not just write in English, it can't be worse than machine translating it.

 

[IskrasFemme]

Hey, you can't be angry at them for throwing piles of money at Keanu Reeves. The guy is wholesome.

-Not aimed at Favero past here-

In all seriousness, the story comes first is a great design philosophy but that doesn't mean that all the system surrounding it have to be forgotten. Furthermore, as Favero said, the story just isn't good enough to make up for everything else. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just not enough.

Heck, if even your choices actually had major impacts. Right now, you've got multiple choices in most conversation but most of these choices have no impact or consequences at all.

Say, for example, the main quest takes you to Cloud 9 to find Evelyn. You end up with a doll that you can choose to have a deep conversation with. This conversation changes nothing, nothing at all. You can skip it and it won't change a thing. Then you wake the doll up and you are quickly given 3 choices:

- Ask politely where Evelyn is
- Threaten the doll for info
- Pay for info.

All three options lead to the exact same result. The choice simply doesn't matter and changes nothing. The game is riddled with these fake choices that lead to the exact same result. Your biggest choices is which ending you want, then you're thrown back into the city.

Once you realize that's all there is to the story, you're left with a world that feels lifeless and a very disappointing story. I'm all for story first but that story better be good and the elements around it should be, at the very least, decent.



Do you actually understand English or you need to machine translate it to your own language? If you understand it, why not just write in English, it can't be worse than machine translating it.

Like 70% + need be translated.

 

[faverodefavero]

I'm with you on this one. I think they touted to the crowd that said video games are too long. They didn't like that a loud minority kept saying that they didn't finish the TW3 because it dragged on for too long. So now they compromised big time on the game's length. I can't say anything about replayability because I'm 72hrs in my very 1st playthrough. But I heard there are 5 endings.

I almost feel like the biggest part of the budget went into making this huge vertical map possible to render in one fast loading screen with Raytracing on.

But well what's worth it and what's not depends on who's buying. I'm definitely having a worthwhile time with the characters while its still lasting. And it's cheaper than Valhalla and WDL before the sales that's for sure.

This is why game companies should never focus on casual gamers first, you alwyas put your loyal fans first and that wi automatically mean casual gamers will play it too if the game is good. Doesn't work the other way around, though.

 

[GrimReaper801]

But I heard there are 5 endings.

This goes back to what I said though.

5 endings + one secret ending. Yet, all you need is one playthrough. Once you finish the main quest, the game throws you back to before the last mission. You can literally see all endings with one playthrough. As long as you do the necessary missions.

It's exactly why this story isn't enough to compensate for all the flawed systems surrounding it. There is one, very linear story here. You can start over with a different life path and you'll get a few life path specific lines of text but the results from using those lines will be exactly the same as if you didn't.

Like 70% + need be translated.

Explains why we got into so many arguments even though we sometimes agreed on things when all was said and done. Machine translation is great on an individual word basis but sucks to understand the larger meaning behind posts.

 

[Kieran_Grosvenor]

There is some behaviours like how they run when the timer for traffic light is almost up but its quite basic on the surface of it

 

[IskrasFemme]

This goes back to what I said though.

5 endings + one secret ending. Yet, all you need is one playthrough. Once you finish the main quest, the game throws you back to before the last mission. You can literally see all endings with one playthrough. As long as you do the necessary missions.

It's exactly why this story isn't enough to compensate for all the flawed systems surrounding it. There is one, very linear story here. You can start over with a different life path and you'll get a few life path specific lines of text but the results from using those lines will be exactly the same as if you didn't.



Explains why we got into so many arguments even though we sometimes agreed on things when all was said and done. Machine translation is great on an individual word basis but sucks to understand the larger meaning behind posts.

In particular, when using expressions that do not have a literal meaning in context. It is really bad. And my native language has great differences with English, verbs in particular, there are things at different times, for example, the 'future' here is conjugated in several different ways. Something that will happen, fatally, is said differently, verb, from what could happen (supposition). And so on. The present time, too, the past, this is even more complex. Portuguese is hard.

 

[Mk3rd]

This goes back to what I said though.

5 endings + one secret ending. Yet, all you need is one playthrough. Once you finish the main quest, the game throws you back to before the last mission. You can literally see all endings with one playthrough. As long as you do the necessary missions.

It's exactly why this story isn't enough to compensate for all the flawed systems surrounding it. There is one, very linear story here. You can start over with a different life path and you'll get a few life path specific lines of text but the results from using those lines will be exactly the same as if you didn't.

hmm I'll see for myself but it sounds like it's being similar to TW3? There, in the last stretch of the game your 3 endings depend on how you treated Ciri and if you chose to help her in the last act. You could save before that last act and modify your choices there on to get the 3 endings as well. But that last act was also pretty lengthy, maybe CP's crucial choices are too close to the ending compared to TW3?

 

[GrimReaper801]

In particular, when using expressions that do not have a literal meaning in context. It is really bad. And my native language has great differences with English, verbs in particular, there are things at different times, for example, the 'future' here is conjugated in several different ways. Something that will happen, fatally, is said differently, verb, from what could happen (supposition). And so on. The present time, too, the past, this is even more complex. Portuguese is hard.

Yeah, I get it, English is my second language too

Although we are derailing the thread, again, and we've both been warned about this before. At least I was. So it's better if we stop the machine translation conversation now.

All I'll say is next time you think I'm being a dick to you, keep in mind I might not be and it's just the machine translation making it look like I am

hmm I'll see for myself but it sounds like it's being similar to TW3? There, in the last stretch of the game your 3 endings depend on how you treated Ciri and if you chose to help her in the last act. You could save before that last act and modify your choices there on to get the 3 endings as well. But that last act was also pretty lengthy, maybe CP's crucial choices are too close to the ending compared to TW3?

That's part of it, definitely, but not all of it. Your multiple choices throughout the game could have long term consequences. Like say, who you chose to romance changes a lot of quests and dialogue on top of the ending you get in TW3. Furthermore, there were choices in with side quests that changed the outcome of quests dramatically.

This simply doesn't exist in CP. At least, I haven't found anything like it yet. There are only two missions in which your choices seem to have an actual impact and changes you can see. When you go get the Flathead from Maelstrom and the final mission.

Right now, most of CP's missions just don't have any real immediate consequences and have none have real long term consequences. The only choice is whether you completed the mission or not.

 

[Aetrion]

I'm with you on this one. I think they touted to the crowd that said video games are too long. They didn't like that a loud minority kept saying that they didn't finish the TW3 because it dragged on for too long. So now they compromised big time on the game's length. I can't say anything about replayability because I'm 72hrs in my very 1st playthrough. But I heard there are 5 endings.

They said they noticed that a majority of people across multiple platforms never finished the game as one of the main reasons why they made the main quest shorter. I personally think there is something to be said about games that have a clear end to them, that you can play through and then put aside, but when it comes to roleplaying games where you get to develop your character and explore a world I think there is no such thing as too much content.

I think the big reason why so many people didn't finish Witcher 3 is not that the game was too long, but that the progression in it wasn't smooth. The game was jam packed with points of interest and side missions you could do, but it was very easy to get stuck in a sort of progression limbo where you still had a dozen different things to do in a certain area, but you were overleveled for the content, none of the loot was useful, and you'd get only tiny amounts of XP for finishing anything. With all of the reward circuits of the game out of commission for potentially dozens of hours while you finished side quests people got bored a lot more easily I think.

 

[Terry_C]

I mean it amounts to a large noise and them ducking...Games from 2000 have their NPCs do more...That fucking paper clip in word does more.

lmao

 

[Augurianius]

hmm I'll see for myself but it sounds like it's being similar to TW3? There, in the last stretch of the game your 3 endings depend on how you treated Ciri and if you chose to help her in the last act. You could save before that last act and modify your choices there on to get the 3 endings as well. But that last act was also pretty lengthy, maybe CP's crucial choices are too close to the ending compared to TW3?

Don't forget that in W3 you can change the game by deciding not to go with the crones, so there's a little of replayability, as in 2 where you go with a different character, or even don't save saesenthesis if you go with Iorveth, seriously think we're all taking here about three main points

1 - Agency
2 - Railroading
3 - Branching

And by branching I don't meant changing the whole game midway, previously commented this (not here) and was sorely misunderstood, all three elements are rather necessary in games such as CP77 more so in PnP but I digress,.

Agency will help you decide where you want to go according to what you made, railroading can help you and may be a bit necessary unless you want your ending to be as in fallout games in which you just "die in the wastelands" *shrugs*

Then branching which as it was amazingly well put by @GrimReaper801 makes a CLEAR distinction of every choice you make for a quest giving you different reactions for choices instead of having three choices with the EXACT same result and no tangible consequence to what you choose.

 

[Mario_Szabo]

lmao

All hail the clip with the script

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

But I saw earlier the comparison of GTA or the Witcher npc reactions to CP2077.

Well I must say that in CP2077 you have for sure many npcs to simulate their reactions to the input of the player and sure you can't program each npc to have his own typical rules BUT you don't always see or have the progress of generating this input as you only see a handful of npcs in your area. The game surely puts everything outer sight on halt as you can see that skipping time for example 12h the npcs still are at the same place doing the same routine. And that is sad. You wouldn't notice if they would have some random move pattern or a list of things like "eat, sleep, toilet, shopping, standard action 1,2,3 etc"

The problem is that they don't and kind of watching them for some minutes makes them feel hollow. Not mentioning that every civilian flees or sty still. They don't crouch out of the danger zone or try to unarm you on close range. Don't mind stealing their car etc.

Sad part is that there are beautiful made and there is much time spend on the main mission that you can move when you talk with them but generic npcs or "filler npcs" are like hardly looked at in terms of reaction and Immersion.

Don't get it how come that it has been going gold after 3 delays and such things are so low standard as the quests and main story with silver hand was polished and interesting.

Many small things not on the right place leaves such a game with a bad taste in one's mouth as they get more and more and create a gap of hollowness.

 

[BobitoZ]

How reactive do you want the NPCs to be?

The game has kids walking around with guns in their hands. You waving a gun around is not something new.

If anything the NPCs lack of response to you is more realistic. If you try to interact with some NPCs they might look at you for a few seconds then go back to what they were doing. That is how people act in a large dense city. You are not the center of their "life."

I mean have you ever been in a big city? People ACTIVELY avoid eye contact, doing their best to ignore everything.

 

[Mario_Szabo]

How reactive do you want the NPCs to be?

The game has kids walking around with guns in their hands. You waving a gun around is not something new.

If anything the NPCs lack of response to you is more realistic. If you try to interact with some NPCs they might look at you for a few seconds then go back to what they were doing. That is how people act in a large dense city. You are not the center of their "life."

I mean have you ever been in a big city? People ACTIVELY avoid eye contact, doing their best to ignore everything.

Haha well sure when on the street someone points half a meter a gun in my face I don't raise my hands and ask not to harm me? Well surely I would as I don't wanna die and even with some fighting skills I wouldn't risk to get injured when I could talk my way out of it or giving him everything of cash or mobile what I have.

Also even when you stare at people in the city they ask you what your fucking problem is or ask if you don't want to take a picture of them that you have later also something to watch. Well in Vienna they will do that like this. It's not everytime normal to "not interact".

Also if you sell food on the street and a customer comes talking to you: "let me alone" or "get the f away" isn't the right response don't you think?

And I won't argue about the ingame police. That would be just lost time.

 

[BobitoZ]

CP2077 is a Dystopian future.

I feel like some people don't seem to understand that. Dystopian is opposite of utopia. Completely dehumanizing.

The AI is not the best, but it is fitting and appropriate to the environment. You complaining about not being treated as a human with respect is actually the game being successful in dehumanizing the environment.