Does it remind you of Midwinter?

[Imm0rtaleflame]

bring back old Call of the Forest, lol.
btw row kill em dwarves, trap+lacerate. So, kind of defeat ST using ST.
So which faction would u say is the weakest now? I'm gonna play it

 

[StrykerxS77x]

bring back old Call of the Forest, lol.
btw row kill em dwarves, trap+lacerate. So, kind of defeat ST using ST.
So which faction would u say is the weakest now? I'm gonna play it

Monsters

 

[InkognitoXI]

Defender being added in is another thing. I am completely on board with defenders being nerfed or changed. They are what is causing the big problems here. Engines shouldn't be targeted when defenders are the real issue.

An interesting change I came across would be to only protect adjacent units.
It still enables cards like Damien, Steffan and engines, as well as protecting large units like Dire Mutated Hound/Yghern, however does not blanket protect an entire row.
The problem arises once you can establish half a dozen engines and all of them are untargetable.
In that case maintaining at least an acceptable amount of control, while not having to deal with defenders means that defenders can ensure units to survive and be less binary in certain matchups.

 

[Archan6el]

An interesting change I came across would be to only protect adjacent units.
It still enables cards like Damien, Steffan and engines, as well as protecting large units like Dire Mutated Hound/Yghern, however does not blanket protect an entire row.
The problem arises once you can establish half a dozen engines and all of them are untargetable.
In that case maintaining at least an acceptable amount of control, while not having to deal with defenders means that defenders can ensure units to survive and be less binary in certain matchups.

That's indeed a better mechanic than defending a whole row. I would take it one step further even: A Defender should pick the unit that (s)he defends. So only one unit will be defended, with the added balancing bonus that the Defender has to be played after the unit. That way there is an opportunity to deal with the unit before the Defender appears. With a Defender, a unit can still be targeted, but the Defender will take all damage effects targeted at the unit. If the Defender dies, any excess damage from direct damage effects should be applied to the unit.

 

[InkognitoXI]

That's indeed a better mechanic than defending a whole row. I would take it one step further even: A Defender should pick the unit that (s)he defends. So only one unit will be defended, with the added balancing bonus that the Defender has to be played after the unit. That way there is an opportunity to deal with the unit before the Defender appears. With a Defender, a unit can still be targeted, but the Defender will take all damage effects targeted at the unit. If the Defender dies, any excess damage from direct damage effects should be applied to the unit.

In that case defenders would be completely unplayable.

 

[Archan6el]

In that case defenders would be completely unplayable.

Unplayable because of removal? They would be perfectly playable if one-shot removal isn't so prevalent.

 

[InkognitoXI]

Unplayable because of removal? They would be perfectly playable if one-shot removal isn't so prevalent.

But it is and to be fair, if the target is already surviving there is no point in using a defender.
At that point defenders are understated cards, which are winmoar and only work when you do not need them.
With your suggestions Azar Javed would be worse than Wolf Pack and the other defenders would not be much better.

 

[Archan6el]

But it is and to be fair, if the target is already surviving there is no point in using a defender.
At that point defenders are understated cards, which are winmoar and only work when you do not need them.
With your suggestions Azar Javed would be worse than Wolf Pack and the other defenders would not be much better.

Surviving one turn, getting killed the next? Not with a Defender as proposed. Defenders will protect against any second turn targeted damage, including Poison that would insta-kill. Quite handy. Azar's Defenders need to be played to be targeted to a unit. Defenders shouldn't be stronger than Wolf Pack anyway.

 

[InkognitoXI]

Surviving one turn, getting killed the next? Not with a Defender as proposed. Defenders will protect against any second turn targeted damage, including Poison that would insta-kill. Quite handy. Azar's Defenders need to be played to be targeted to a unit.
[...]

Killing an unit in 2 turns is not relevant.
If a unit survives 1 turn it is fine and people would rather play another engine than a situational, inefficient and unnecessary card.

[...]
Defenders shouldn't be stronger than Wolf Pack anyway.

So you are saying they should not be more playable than a card that only suffices for jokes about it ?
That does not sound reasonable at all.

 

[4RM3D]

An interesting change I came across would be to only protect adjacent units.

While an interesting suggestion, it changes little because it doesn't happen that often that you need to protect more than two units, with the exception of quadruple engine spam (e.g. Fran's ability), which is already strong enough without defenders.

I would take it one step further even: A Defender should pick the unit that (s)he defends. So only one unit will be defended, with the added balancing bonus that the Defender has to be played after the unit. That way there is an opportunity to deal with the unit before the Defender appears.

As pointed out by others, that would make defenders unplayable. If you really want to nerf them, then at least give the Defender an Order ability (with Zeal): "the selected unit receives immunity for as long as this unit lives", so that it can be played before the defending unit.

 

[Archan6el]

Killing an unit in 2 turns is not relevant.
If a unit survives 1 turn it is fine and people would rather play another engine than a situational, inefficient and unnecessary card.

Lol, not relevant. Seems the one-shot removal meta got you. What about blocking a second Poison?

So you are saying they should not be more playable than a card that only suffices for jokes about it ?
That does not sound reasonable at all.

As pointed out by others, that would make defenders unplayable. If you really want to nerf them, then at least give the Defender an Order ability (with Zeal): "the selected unit receives immunity for as long as this unit lives", so that it can be played before the defending unit.

I don't believe so. Defense against a second Poison or simply additional damage is very strong. Defenders should be low strength, low provision bronzes. They would effectively work like a boost to a unit, without the tall removal risk and with additional protection against Poison, Bleeding and other targeted stuff. Minions to throw themselves in front of their boss, perhaps even synergizing with the defended unit (for the stronger minions).

 

[SuperiorSaturn]

Defenders aren't even the problem this meta. No one is teching that hard for defenders because they have to tech for dwarves just to keep their winrate positive. And even that deck's biggest problem isn't with the defender which is just another layer you have to overcome on top of the broken momentum, engine swarm and shielded tokens.

The problem is with the 4p bronzes with a cap of 7 to 11 points. Keep in mind this is after all other "high ceiling" bronzes were nuked into generic 6/4p 7/5p plays. How is beast masters not allowed to exist but mahakam guards and berserkers are A-okay. At least that card required building an entire deck around and set up for 3 whole rounds just for that play. For those cards all you have to do is plop the thing on the board and win.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Defenders aren't even the problem this meta.

You lost me here

 

[1990BW]

The meta is unfortunatly settling already.
After a week of fun playing against a large variety of decks I see Mystic echo (old Fran) over and over again.
At some point I'll stop playing just like last season I don't want to play against the same deck all the time even if I can win.
It makes the game boring and repetative it's about time CDPR realises this and adresses this deck in particular.
It's way to consistent even if you make mistakes you can easily win.

 

[Guest 4368268]

The meta is unfortunatly settling already.
After a week of fun playing against a large variety of decks I see Mystic echo (old Fran) over and over again.
At some point I'll stop playing just like last season I don't want to play against the same deck all the time even if I can win.
It makes the game boring and repetative it's about time CDPR realises this and adresses this deck in particular.
It's way to consistent even if you make mistakes you can easily win.

What you said last there has been a major issue for most 'Tier 0.5' decks. Whether it was Crach, Dijkstra, Gerni, Fran, Woodland, the most frustrating thing about facing them (for me) has been when you outplay them and you still just lose because certain combo pieces and sequences are beyond overtuned. Because that just discourages me from even trying.

 

[ardeathwinggwent]

Guys! Relax! Go play the seasonal mode like every other sane persion. With its chaotic nature, it's actually more balanced than Ranked.
Only problem is that 90% of games there are against NG but at least you can turn their own combo on them.

 

[knowsGerald]

Game is gud, u better chill

 

[SuperiorSaturn]

You lost me here

Don't get me wrong here, defenders are obviously a huge shift in game philosophy and a large step away from board interactivity but it's still a single card in a 25 card deck. On the list of problems they're still light years behind an archetype that can get 11 points on its lowest bronze and upwards of 17 points on their leader in a single turn if not more.

Complaining about defenders probably won't get us anywhere but a small nerf that'll still keep the core mechanic (which you can already easily tech for with purify which finally gets great value) but echo has got to be nuked to where it's at least mildly reasonable to play against.

 

[Bruele]

I played gwent from HC release. I loved the game but now there are too many units on board and single card to much strong. I like more the game pre Novigrad.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Don't get me wrong here, defenders are obviously a huge shift in game philosophy and a large step away from board interactivity but it's still a single card in a 25 card deck. On the list of problems they're still light years behind an archetype that can get 11 points on its lowest bronze and upwards of 17 points on their leader in a single turn if not more.

Complaining about defenders probably won't get us anywhere but a small nerf that'll still keep the core mechanic (which you can already easily tech for with purify which finally gets great value) but echo has got to be nuked to where it's at least mildly reasonable to play against.

Echo is not a bigger problem than defenders. Hell without justice I would argue that echo is fine now. Defenders on the other hand are basically mandatory. Broken combos in just about every faction. Purify is currently a garbage counter due to very limited options. Go look at Northern Realms options for purify as case and point.