Does the diverse world of Night City include people with disabilities?

[AieronKnight]

Hi! I'm a gamer with a rare form of Muscular Dystrophy that requires the use of an electric wheelchair.

Like most of you, I'm super excited to explore Night City and experience the stories that CDPR are crafting. My only concern is that, like most other games, people with disabilities will be absent from the world. Even in a futuristic setting that offers the option of "fixing" your body through mods and cybernetics, there would be many who couldn't afford it or would decide not to be modded. Even now in our modern society, there's a perception that people with disabilities are "broken". I'd love having a side-story that explores identity and self-worth for a person with a disability in a society that values perfecting your body.

p.s. I mostly want to see futuristic wheelchairs.

 

[Suhiira]

Well I recall one overweight guy in a scooter.
But given cyberware the vast majority of what are currently disabilities no longer exist.

You're blind? Cyber eyes.
Legs blown off? Cyber legs.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

 

[AieronKnight]

Well I recall one overweight guy in a scooter.
But given cyberware the vast majority of what are currently disabilities no longer exist.

You're blind? Cyber eyes.
Legs blown off? Cyber legs.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

That's assuming they can afford it and want it done. Plus, some disabilities like mine would basically need my head put on an entirely robotic body. This then takes us to the psychological ramifications this could have on a person and if they'd want that.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

Regarding the validity and or lack their of concerning societies perceptions, in my experience I find that people who have no physical disabilities are often broken as it were from various other ailments psychological, real or imagined. A cousin of mine with muscular dystrophy is one of the brightest and most positive people you could hope to meet and often times I have seen people give motivational speeches who are half my size and carrying the weight of something I can't even comprehend and yet they live with all the courage of a lion.

I'm curious though, if it were possible and you had the funds would you go for the cybernetic body swap? I've had some back injury's over the years where I thought "screw the ethical questions, I'm all for going cyborg" lol.

I think it would be awesome to explore the psychological ramifications you alluded to and while there is such a thing as Cyber Psychosis within the Cyberpunk pnp game (a result of too much modification I believe) I'm not entirely sure if it's the same thing but certainly sounds like it's in the same ball park.

 

[RLKing1969]

That's assuming they can afford it and want it done. Plus, some disabilities like mine would basically need my head put on an entirely robotic body. This then takes us to the psychological ramifications this could have on a person and if they'd want that.

Yeah, That's possible too...They're called full conversion borgs.

 

[eraser7278]

mobility scooter confirmed, top left

 

[bravenewboi]

I would be very interested in seeing this topic explored. However, I recall Mike Pondsmith talking about how cybernetics are basically like iPhones are in our society, not really expensive and pretty much accessible to everyone. He says that the accessibility to technology is what makes the genre cyberpunk.

Though you bring a very interesting point and entirely relevant to us currently. I know deaf people who refuse to get cochlear implants because they don't see their lack of hearing as a disability, thus not something that needs fixing. So like I said, I would be really interested in exploring this in a cyberpunk universe.

 

[AieronKnight]

I'm curious though, if it were possible and you had the funds would you go for the cybernetic body swap? I've had some back injury's over the years where I thought "screw the ethical questions, I'm all for going cyborg" lol.

I've been asked this a lot, especially with technology improving at the rate it is. Kid me would have given anything to show up at school one day and be able to dunk a basketball. Adult me has no issue with my physical limitations because most barriers I've faced are actually societally based.

I did have an option to cut off my leg past my knee recently. The surgeon came up with the idea to improve how I sit in my wheelchair. After considering it awhile, I decided against it because I'd need to relearn how I move my body, and there can be severe psychological issues from removing a limb (phantom pain for instance).

I think it would be awesome to explore the psychological ramifications you alluded to and while there is such a thing as Cyber Psychosis within the Cyberpunk pnp game (a result of too much modification I believe) I'm not entirely sure if it's the same thing but certainly sounds like it's in the same ball park.

I definitely think it'd be a great way to explore psychology, identity, and society as a whole. Hell, in Cyberpunk 2077 maybe people with severe physical disabilities have found a haven in the Net? Does that impact their humanity? What about people who are anti-tech?

Anyways, I'm getting the game either way. I'm just a firm believer that the more people are exposed to diverse stories the better.

 

[Suhiira]

That's assuming they can afford it and want it done. Plus, some disabilities like mine would basically need my head put on an entirely robotic body. This then takes us to the psychological ramifications this could have on a person and if they'd want that.

Well, no, cyberware can't cure everything (duh), but it can certainly dramatically reduce the number of handicapped.

 

[SunnyButtons]

Knowing CDProjekt Red's attention to detail and NPC diversity, it'd be fair to say we will see persons like that, either from physical injuries, obesity, or implications of poverty in the more seedy parts of Night City.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

I would be very interested in seeing this topic explored. However, I recall Mike Pondsmith talking about how cybernetics are basically like iPhones are in our society, not really expensive and pretty much accessible to everyone. He says that the accessibility to technology is what makes the genre cyberpunk

However there is the various levels of quality to contend with, both in the tech itself and implementation/installation of the tech. So while resource scarcity may not be much an issue, quality certainly remains a factor and I am hoping we see this effect gameplay somehow. For instance if we get an augment on the cheap, maybe it glitches or malfunctions causing some sort of consequence.

I definitely think it'd be a great way to explore psychology, identity, and society as a whole. Hell, in Cyberpunk 2077 maybe people with severe physical disabilities have found a haven in the Net? Does that impact their humanity? What about people who are anti-tech?

I'm all for it, exploration of the human mind and the consequences of technology as it relates to what it means to be human is right up my alley.

 

[Ianhamilton_]

Well I recall one overweight guy in a scooter.

There were two, here's the second

My best friend spent the last years of his life battling a ruined central nervous system, can't just swap that out for a cybernetic version, even what AieronKnight mentioned about having a neck down body transplant wouldn't fix that. My life is dominated by a chronic mental health problem, can't just swap that out for a cybernetic version either. I have a close family member with CP with both cognitive and motor impact, can't just swap that out for a cybernetic version.

Plus of course the assumption that disability is a defect, when instead the boundary between what is and what isn't is an arbitrary line drawn in the sand of the spectrum of human variation, not based on whether something is broken but based on how well your body and mind happen to match the the way the world has been designed.

I know plenty of people who fall within that umbrella would have that aspect of themselves changed in a heartbeat. But I also know plenty of people who fall within that umbrella who would never dream of having it changed. Sometimes at the core of that is the intensely personal issue of what it is that makes you who you are, which lines up perfectly with the broader issues at play in a setting like this.

There's some great sci fi writing about disability. Even an anthology solely of short stories that explore disability in a sci fi setting, written solely by writers who have disabilities themselves, covering all sorts of angles on it. The stories are a bit hit and miss, but still absolutely worth a read regardless of whether any of the issues currently affect you yourself - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Accessing-Future-Disability-Themed-Anthology-Speculative-ebook/dp/B010IU2IQU.

There's huge untapped potential for these kind of stories to be told and these kind of issues to be explored. CDPR have a really wonderful opportunity here.

And of course fantastic opportunity to knock it out of the park for making the game accessible to people with disabilities. They learned some really good lessons on that through The Witcher 2 and 3. Excited to see what they'll be able to do when thinking about it from early in development this time.

 

[AusGamer85]

With a youngish dev team and the way the world is moving forward, you can almost 100% guarantee every demographic/race/gender/etc will be represented in a dystopian story.

 

[Ianhamilton_]

With a youngish dev team and the way the world is moving forward, you can almost 100% guarantee every demographic/race/gender/etc will be represented in a dystopian story.

 

[warbaby2]

There's huge untapped potential for these kind of stories to be told and these kind of issues to be explored. CDPR have a really wonderful opportunity here.

I always get a little tingle in the back of my neck when I read stuff like that... especially since, these days, it usually comes from people that, for whatever reason, think that a game that's fundamentally about something completely different, should deal with some special issue or the other (whether it actually is their personal issue or not).

Look, sure, a scifie RPG can include a diverse range of characters and stories, the Surge, for instance, had a quadriplegic main character, but ultimately, I think people should leave the "exploring of issues" to games that have actually been written to "explore issues"... a game will never represent everyone, and franky, it shouldn't try cause in the end, it more often than not hinders the creative wision, only to - more often than not - come of as clueless pandering anyways.

...and yes, I'm disabled too, but I still don't want my main character in every game I play to, in example, walk on foot all the time, because like me, they can't drive a vehicle.

 

[Garrison72]

When I saw that dude in the scooter I was like...holy shit, really? CDPR are amazing when it comes to populating their worlds with ambient life. There's so much creative stuff going on in the background.

 

[Nithing]

The witcher 3 had disabled background NPCs, even if they were beggars (which is mostly consistent with the fictional mediaeval setting as I understand it), so I think it highly likely that in this more ambitious title they will strive for better representation.

 

[Ianhamilton_]

I always get a little tingle in the back of my neck when I read stuff like that... especially since, these days, it usually comes from people that, for whatever reason, think that a game that's fundamentally about something completely different, should deal with some special issue or the other (whether it actually is their personal issue or not).

Look, sure, a scifie RPG can include a diverse range of characters and stories, the Surge, for instance, had a quadriplegic main character, but ultimately, I think people should leave the "exploring of issues" to games that have actually been written to "explore issues"... a game will never represent everyone, and franky, it shouldn't try cause in the end, it more often than not hinders the creative vision, only to - more often than not - come of as clueless pandering anyways.

...and yes, I'm disabled too, but I still don't want my main character in every game I play to, in example, walk on foot all the time, because like me, they can't drive a vehicle.

I don't think I quite agree with that, like you said games like CDPR's are pretty big and rich and cover all kinds of stories and characters, which in turn means there's plenty of scope to explore all kinds of aspects of the world, it doesn't have to be through the main player character's arc at all. There's no shortage of people to work with to ensure that it doesn't fall into tokenism or pandering.

Although I don't think of myself as disabled it was still quite a thing for me to see some of my own issues represented in that sci fi anthology, that's not something I'm used to happening.

Personally I prefer to look at diversity as realism. Pretty jarringly unrealistic to watch a movie or play a game that consists of a uniform bunch of non-disabled white dudes, that's not the kind of escapism from real life that I'm looking for from entertainment.

 

[z3r0_c001]

In Night City augs are cheap and easy to come by, so I suppose most physically disabled people simply get a new limb, spine, eyes, etc. Some people even replace their entire skin just for fun. I also think I read in the book that you can get a full body replacement that won't give you cyberpsychosis, that looks exactly the same as a human body. So I suppose it does include people that may have had disabilities, but are indistinguishable from non disabled people now, except those who refused to get an aug.

Pretty jarringly unrealistic to watch a movie or play a game that consists of a uniform bunch of non-disabled white dudes, that's not the kind of escapism from real life that I'm looking for from entertainment.

It mostly depends on the setting. In the Witcher for example, in Medieval Eastern Europe, I'd expect most (not necessarily all though) of the human characters to be non-disabled white men and women. Of course in modern day California, I'd expect there to be many asian, black and hispanics characters in addition to white characters. As for California in 50 years, who knows.

As for representing disabled characters, you could make the argument that for example, Adam Jensen from Deus Ex is disabled. I don't want to sound harsh but the majority of people buying the game aren't disabled and would probably rather play as someone able bodied, especially in an action game. Not that there's not potential to tell stories from other perspectives As for mental illnesses, I think there's probably many games with MCs who deal with mental illnesses, I know many movies and TV shows do at least.

 

[AieronKnight]

In Night City augs are cheap and easy to come by, so I suppose most physically disabled people simply get a new limb, spine, eyes, etc. Some people even replace their entire skin just for fun. I also think I read in the book that you can get a full body replacement that won't give you cyberpsychosis, that looks exactly the same as a human body. So I suppose it does include people that may have had disabilities, but are indistinguishable from non disabled people now, except those who refused to get an aug.

I always thought a big hallmark of cyberpunk prosthetics is actually sub-optimal or imperfect solutions due to lack of money/resources, which further accentuates the differences in disabilities or otherwise forcing new and creative character designs.

As for representing disabled characters, you could make the argument that for example, Adam Jensen from Deus Ex is disabled. I don't want to sound harsh but the majority of people buying the game aren't disabled and would probably rather play as someone able-bodied, especially in an action game. Not that there's not potential to tell stories from other perspectives As for mental illnesses, I think there's probably many games with MCs who deal with mental illnesses, I know many movies and TV shows do at least.

I wasn't suggesting that the MC be disabled though that'd be cool too. My thought was just to see a reflection of what disabled life is like in Cyberpunk 2077. This could be as simple as futuristic wheelchairs in the backdrop of the world, or as grand as a side quest that explores how people with disabilities dealt with augs, etc when they became easily available. Saying that it's so cheap that everyone can do it doesn't do the topic justice because not everyone will do it.