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T

thoreauvision

Rookie
#1
Jun 29, 2015
Don't forget who you are. We believe in you.

CD Projekt Red, one of your defining characteristics has always been you go above and beyond what is expected, above what seems financially reasonable. For the gamer. For your fans. I remember reading about the Enhanced Edition of the Witcher early after playing it. Michal Kicinski said it took over $1 million to Enhance the original. That must have taken some guts. That must have seemed impossible.

I remember in the Witcher 2, gameplay choices that lead to hours of different content, and I felt like my choices mattered at a level I’d never felt in a game before. Because you guys weren’t scared to put in that time, and that reward, for a choice, for a fan. When you made Dark Mode for difficulty, when you put in Arena Mode, overhauling combat, a free enhanced edition with 10GB of new content, half an hour of cinematics. I was blown away. You put in an incredible effort and commitment beyond what most companies would deem sane, for the game, for the gamer.

The Witcher 3 is another explosion of dedication, for love of the Witcher, for the fans. There is nothing but endless passion dripping from every ounce of it. The planned free DLC, the love keeps rolling in.

So then we come to the forums, to talk about what could be improved, what we as fans would love. Cause that’s what we do, we’re fans.

But now, for the first time, in this post release phase, the “Red” posts in the forum scare me a little. The reoccurring theme seems to be “This would be hard to do.” “This is impossible, but we’ll listen and learn.” “This would be too much work.” It scares me because it sounds like other developers. Ones who have forgotten that the impossible and the ridiculous effort you put into things is one of the reasons we love you, and why you have our loyalty.

The romance, the politics, the post-game, these are hard to change. These might take an investment, dedication, love for the fans. And for other developers, they can still say “impossible”. But we remember who you are. We will trust you through Cyberpunk and beyond. We believe in you. Thank you.
 
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M

Martindnewton

Rookie
#2
Jun 29, 2015
Agree with everything. You have to think of it this way though, they arent saying they wont do it (or even that they will), working on DLC+Expansions plus cyberpunk 2077. Wasnt the enhanced edition at a time with a lull in work? Give them time the game is a month old :ok:
 
T

Tomice158

Rookie
#3
Jun 29, 2015
Nice! You registered here just to say this?

If it helps, CDPR is still very special apart from idealism.
They are their own boss because they own their own download portal - they aren't dependant as much on publishers (or there are their own publisher - don't know, can't find the article from a business mag any more).
 
T

thoreauvision

Rookie
#4
Jun 29, 2015
I did. They have given us many special moments in gaming, and have always impressed me. Just wanted to voice my support for those initiatives that would mean a great deal to fans, and let them know we know they aren't easy, but that's one of the reasons they are loved.
 
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H

HumAnimaL9000

Rookie
#5
Jun 30, 2015
thoreauvision said:
for the game, for the gamer.
Click to expand...
That would make a good slogan somewhere, maybe on the back cover of the enhanced edition in 2016 !!! lol
 
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Black_Iris

Rookie
#6
Jun 30, 2015
This time around is different. They have already planned Cyberpunk to do and are passing more and more people there. I bellieve Witcher (at last for now) is on the back of their minds at this point as they want to try something else (they have also clearly stated, behind the lines, that they are growing a bit burned by the Wticher saga).

I don't think there wil be an Enhanced Edition this time around, nor as extensive tweaking as in the past. There will be bug-fixes, certainly, and expansions, sure, but not the overhaul that happened in the past titles plus all the amount of additions in between. They are simply tired a bit by the Witcher saga after working on it for a so long time and have need of a break with some new IP. I actually can understand this.
 
T

thoreauvision

Rookie
#7
Jul 2, 2015
Black_Iris said:
This time around is different....
Click to expand...
That would be too bad. That implies success has changed them in some way. It's the slippery slope of "We made enough money. We made enough people happy. We will now do the profitable. Good enough." Kicinski told Reuters "This year and the next one will be the years of The Witcher", so to me that implies work will continue, and next year doesn't end in first quarter with Blood & Wine, so we can hope. There are always fresh ideas, fresh blood, and fresh ways of tackling challenges, so not everything has to cause burnouts.
 
Tuco

Tuco

Senior user
#8
Jul 2, 2015
Just out of curiosity, since I must have missed all these red posts the OP is talking about...

thoreauvision said:
ut now, for the first time, in this post release phase, the “Red” posts in the forum scare me a little. The reoccurring theme seems to be “This would be hard to do.” “This is impossible, but we’ll listen and learn.” “This would be too much work.” It scares me because it sounds like other developers. Ones who have forgotten that the impossible and the ridiculous effort you put into things is one of the reasons we love you, and why you have our loyalty.
Click to expand...
...on what topics they gave these answers?
 
T

thoreauvision

Rookie
#9
Jul 2, 2015
Tuco said:
Just out of curiosity, since I must have missed all these red posts the OP is talking about...
...on what topics they gave these answers?
Click to expand...
Some examples:
Politics in TW3 - RedDorigen - "I won't lie to you - many issues described in this thread are rooted too deep in existing content to fix them with subtle changes, which means they're very unlikely to get fixed/changed."

Immersion Destroyer - GingerEffect - "It is a matter of priorities....would have been an enormous undertaking......would be a huge a undertaking if we were to do it right"

TW3 General Feedback - Theta77: "For possible stuff - expect it to be fixed as soon as we can fix it. For impossible stuff - we learn a lot and we'll try to avoid those problems in the future."

Again of course I understand the point that things are not easy to do, and take significant resources. But if the people communicating with us feel this way, it's hard for them to pass on the fan needs with the strength of our convictions. They've shown their dedication to us in the past, with less profitable games, so just giving them thanks for those past choices with the reminding hope for that company character to shine through and continue.
 
O

-Olek

Banned
#10
Jul 2, 2015
They've already forgotten a part of who they were with the whole downgrade situation and denial.

The game is a masterpiece, is and will be one of the best if not the best game i've played but they mislead PC players with the visuals and continually denied, they just made some weird apologetic comment after the game released.

I mean look at this question dodge:
Eurogamer: Did the console versions restrict the PC version?

"If the consoles are not involved there is no Witcher 3 as it is,"

They were clearly asking about the graphics, they were clearly asking whether PC didn't get better graphics because there would be too much disparity compared to the console.

Instead CDPR switches it to a remark about development budget and profit, and now as it stands PC got a 3rd or more of the total sales so i wonder what they have to say.

Eurogamer: Why didn't you say anything until now?

"Frankly speaking because we didn't see it as a problem," Iwinski admits.


That is so hard to believe, either that's a fake PR response or they have a lot of clueless people working there, everyone saw the difference between the older and newer builds, everyone asked questions and CDPR constantly said that there was no downgrade and that all the trailer graphics would be replicable on a high end PC.

How did they not see this as a problem? Doing massive visual changes to the game which are blatantly visible, then denying any claims about it with 0 remorse.

All it would have taken is to simply put large disclaimers on those videos stating that THIS WORK IN PROGRESS IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FINAL PRODUCT, yet they did the opposite even after allegedly realizing that they couldn't keep up the same quality on the entire game.

I think i'm speaking for most PC gamers if i say that we were angrier and more disappointed about the way this situation was handled by CDPR rather than the downgrade itself.
 
Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
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Tuco

Tuco

Senior user
#11
Jul 2, 2015
thoreauvision said:
Some examples:
Politics in TW3 - RedDorigen - "I won't lie to you - many issues described in this thread are rooted too deep in existing content to fix them with subtle changes, which means they're very unlikely to get fixed/changed."

Immersion Destroyer - GingerEffect - "It is a matter of priorities....would have been an enormous undertaking......would be a huge a undertaking if we were to do it right"

TW3 General Feedback - Theta77: "For possible stuff - expect it to be fixed as soon as we can fix it. For impossible stuff - we learn a lot and we'll try to avoid those problems in the future."
Click to expand...
Sorry, maybe I explained myself poorly. I wasn't really looking for exact quotes. I was more interested in knowing *what kind* of issues caused these answers.
Mostly because I'd like to know what kind of "issues" we shouldn't expect to ever see fixed.
For instance if it's stuff I actually care about or just some vague unrealistic requests like "add two hours of unique dialogues for each NPC", which would make these "refusal" completely reasonable.
 
Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
Sneky

Sneky

Rookie
#12
Jul 2, 2015
Fact 1:They never promised permadeath
Fact 2: PC version is superior compared to consoles even with different artistic direction and without features from 2013

-Olek said:
All it would have taken is to simply put large disclaimers on those videos stating that THIS WORK IN PROGRESS IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FINAL PRODUCT, yet they did the opposite even after allegedly realizing that they couldn't keep up the same quality on the entire game.
Click to expand...
Don't be silly, disclaimer or not nobody would care. One thing they can learn is: don't release any footage more than 6 months before release because gamers doesnt understand how game development works. This is the only way to avoid outrage. Also most of the PC GAMERS are very happy with Witcher 3 just look at steam reviews or metacritic reviews or reddit/4chan or whatever. Even RPGCodex to a certain extent lol. So speak for yourself.


BTW: They were consistent all the time about downgrade. Quote from http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-19-cd-projekt-red-tackles-the-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on : "We don't agree there is a downgrade but it's our opinion, and gamers' feeling can be different.".


-Olek said:
and now as it stands PC got a 3rd or more of the total sales so i wonder what they have to say.
Click to expand...
They didnt have full data from retailers when they announced these 4 milions, so we dont know if pc sales are 1/3 probably not.
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#13
Jul 2, 2015
And we are definitely not going to have another Downgrade thread. Especially not by hijacking someone else's thread.
 
A

aozgolo

Rookie
#14
Jul 2, 2015
The OP definitely echoes my feelings as well, I love the Free DLC, the patches, and the expansions but I am legitimately concerned by the silence in regards to new content tailored towards player feedback. CDPR built a special following from being a game studio that actually listened to it's audience and gave them new content based off their feedback of what the fans felt the game truly needed. While I understand with an open world some of these requests can be extremely challenging (like post-epilogue worlds, difficulty rebalancing, and romance overhauls) but I think longtime fans of CDPR have come to expect this sort of post-release player-requested content and built quite a bit of loyalty over it that I think regardless of how great the DLC and Expansions might be that it's a mistake to presume it's enough to satisfy this monster they've created.

We're like Smeagol, we know you've already given us more than you could afford and all but we wants that shiny thing, gives it to us precious!
 
F

Froshshock

Rookie
#15
Jul 2, 2015
Simply speaking, i think the success got to the top of someone, or several people. I'm sure most of CDPR's workforce would gladly make the best, most awesome PC version as possible. I won't even go into details about specifics on things that needed to be changed, because the forums have already done that countless times now.

They already changed with the direction of Witcher 2, main evidence being the UI and its gameplay. What happened from Witcher 3's reveal and Cyberpunk's tease just amplified that somehow, fast forward years later and we now have this. Bigger is not always better, which Witcher 3 is certainly an example of. The expectations for Cyberpunk 2077 has been lowered due to this, that's for sure.

It was good while it lasted, but i'm not surprised some people split to do their own thing.

PS: Even though some tracks are just variations, i think the most positive about Witcher 3 is the music in the game.
 
T

Tomice158

Rookie
#16
Jul 2, 2015
No matter how good a game is, you'll always find points to criticize.

Fact is:
The game is considered one of the best RPG's ever made, its scores both from magazines and from fans (e.g. on metacritic) being very comparable to genre milestones like BG2, Planescape Torment or the original Deus Ex. Not to forget that people have become more demanding over the years. There is some substantial idealization of oldschool games to consider.

Another Fact:
Even if the game isn't perfect, there noone delivering a better package.
As example, this game puts the former King of RPG's Bioware to shame, especially in direct comparison to DA3. Their world lacks life and immersion. They failed to make me feel emotions. I never cared about the fate of factions and persons. Their weather and lighting effects are static and never seem to transport the right mood for a given situation. The weird comic-like combat animations with their impossible backflipping and their multicolored magic sparkles everywhere are ridiculous. They failed to create a proper city, the single plaza that's supposed to represent Val Royeaux (the worlds largest city in their lore!) is painfully unimmersive. Your character is the only person in the world using a horse, your companions simply disappear when they are supposed to ride at your side.
In comparison to Skyrim, the other great rival, CDPR managed to get rid of loading screens and significantly improved the believability of the game world (especially in terms of scale - one small wheat field in Skyrim seems to feed 100 people).

Yet another (personal) fact:
I'm a veteran gamer in his mid-thirties who started gaming with the original Warcraft 20 years ago. Ever since I finished university and had to restrict my gaming time due to job, career and family demands, no game captivated me this much. No other game in the last 5-10 years made me forget everything around me in such an irrational fashion. Most other games I started and never finished, because they didn't draw me in enough to justify the invested time after some initial fascination. Not this one.
Even after having finished the game more than two weeks ago, I still randomly hum the song from the "go your way" trailer (Oats in the water - Ben Howard). I still rewatch some cutscenes and get goosebumps.
Only the original Dragon Age and Mass Effect 1-3 came anywhere close in the 3D era. I never finished DA2 or DA3, couldn't force myself to - no soul.
 
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O

-Olek

Banned
#17
Jul 2, 2015
Sneky said:
Fact 1:They never promised permadeath
Fact 2: PC version is superior compared to consoles even with different artistic direction and without features from 2013



Don't be silly, disclaimer or not nobody would care. One thing they can learn is: don't release any footage more than 6 months before release because gamers doesnt understand how game development works. This is the only way to avoid outrage. Also most of the PC GAMERS are very happy with Witcher 3 just look at steam reviews or metacritic reviews or reddit/4chan or whatever. Even RPGCodex to a certain extent lol. So speak for yourself.


BTW: They were consistent all the time about downgrade. Quote from http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-19-cd-projekt-red-tackles-the-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on : "We don't agree there is a downgrade but it's our opinion, and gamers' feeling can be different.".




They didnt have full data from retailers when they announced these 4 milions, so we dont know if pc sales are 1/3 probably not.
Click to expand...
What's up with that patronizing tone? So you understand it but no one else does?

Things change during game development and they tried to justify the downgrade by calling it "optimization". Know what optimization is? It's making something run better without making visual sacrifices, or at least not ones that are obviously visible, it's getting fewer lines of code to perform the same instruction, it's adapting that code to work efficiently on certain hardware.

You gave me that one quote which is just absurd, i can give a dozen other where developers state that there is NO downgrade and that graphics on PC will be fully replicable if you have the hardware for it, including the one and only Marcin Momot.

And people can be happy with the game and also acknowledge that there was a downgrade, i'm very happy with the game overall but i'm disappointed over the downgrade and the way CDPR handled it.
 
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M

moonknightgog

Forum veteran
#18
Jul 2, 2015
Tuco said:
Sorry, maybe I explained myself poorly. I wasn't really looking for exact quotes. I was more interested in knowing *what kind* of issues caused these answers.
Mostly because I'd like to know what kind of "issues" we shouldn't expect to ever see fixed.
For instance if it's stuff I actually care about or just some vague unrealistic requests like "add two hours of unique dialogues for each NPC", which would make these "refusal" completely reasonable.
Click to expand...
Exactlty this. Unreasonable requests.
Some people here are complaining that there isn't a post ending world.
Which would mean that:
1) They should redesign the entire areas in order to reflect who wins the war.
2) They should add and change a lot of dialogues.
3) They shoudl redesign mostly of the side quests.
 
M

mbaker51591

Rookie
#19
Jul 2, 2015
moonknightgog said:
1) They should redesign the entire areas in order to reflect who wins the war.
Click to expand...
Isn't in the ending they already showed this? Like Ciri became an empress and White Orchard have bunch of temerian soldier in that area.
 
O

onionshavelayers

Rookie
#20
Jul 2, 2015
I think the problems with Witcher 3 will take too much time and effort to fix. I think CDPR should just focus now on CP2077. When witcher 2 came out, it only needed some gameplay tweaks and some additional cut scenes and missions which CDPR was able to to.

Lets take for instance the dumbed down politics in W3. How the hell is CDPR gonna fix that without overhauling the entire story, the design of the world, the dialogue, etc. CDPR just forget about W3 and pour all your focus into CP2077.
 
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