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Dragon Age: Inquisition

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U

Unkindled

Rookie
#2,581
Sep 25, 2014
.Volsung. said:
Each new thing Bioware reveals makes this game even less interesting.

I can put up with silly and corny fantasy (I actually enjoyed Origins) but this is too over the top for an RPG. It's core elements don't make sense: lacks proper motives and coherence (mage banished from the land of whatever-it-takes for being gay!?) and the series mechanics became a complete nerd fest (remember the teleport backstab from DA2? Good job nullifying tactical positioning). It's not even about realism for me, it's about playing a game that doesn't feel like it was designed by an 11 year old with a social agenda.

Too bad, I thought this might be their comeback.
Click to expand...
Nail on the head, basically. Origins didn't have me caring about any of that because the story and characters was good. And now, not so much. I pretty much hated everyone in DA 2 besides Varic. Didn't care about Aveline much. She was okay I guess. Boring. Merril was an idiot, Isabella was an idiot from her selfishness, not to mention disgusting, and finally, Prince no one cares and LGBT civil rights leader were both big douches.

What sucks is that Anders was actually likeable to me in Origins. Then he took a spirit to the body and it made him a total douchemaster. Gameplay I didn't much care about. It had its flaws but some aspects I liked better in DA 2 compared to origins. Less tedious and a bit more fun. Irrelevant though since you'll be seeing the same settings repeatedly which makes it mind numbingly boring.

Oh, and I probably care a lot less about the giant swords and armor problems and whatnot compared to everyone else. Yes, they still have it in DA 3, but if I could like DA O with those hugemungous heavy armor sets, toy swords, and so on, I can get over it for DA I. And honestly, if anyone enjoyed DA O, they should probably give complaining about the look of DA I a rest, since more than likely their dislike of something else in Dragon Age Inquisition is making them care more about the looks than they normally would. Which is fine. I'm guilty of that as well.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: z0rex
Cheylus

Cheylus

Senior user
#2,582
Sep 25, 2014
@eliharel
There is no autoregen between combats, unlike DAO and DA2, limited supply of potion for healing (you have to refill your flasks at your camp), no spirit healer.
That's a very good thing in my opinion: even the fight you're meant to win from the start becomes meaningful. If you know you're in a fight you're certain to win, you'll still have to worry about how much health you're losing.
 
Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
U

Unkindled

Rookie
#2,583
Sep 25, 2014
Cheylus said:
@eliharel
There is no autoregen between combats, unlike DAO and DA2, limited supply of potion for healing (you have to refill your flasks at your camp), no spirit healer.
That's a very good thing in my opinion: even the fight you're meant to win from the start becomes meaningful. If you know you're in a fight you're certain to win, you'll still have to worry about how much health you're losing.
Click to expand...
I actually agree on that as well.
 
A

Aaden

Rookie
#2,584
Sep 25, 2014
Cormacolindor said:
I suppose it might offend people who know all the intricacies of armor and weapon designs but for for people who don't really know that stuff it is convincing enough. I didn't even notice all the stuff you pointed.

Even the Witcher is guilty of stuff like this like Ciri's heels, Saskia's armor and her not wearing a helmet. Maybe a helmet would have deflected Henselt's blow and she could have killed him,
Click to expand...
It's not really about whether it is convincing enough or not, although probably whoever takes a closer look at the picture and has ever shot a bow will at least notice the bowstring being on the wrong side of her arm. It's more about what it tells us about their approach to their work.

I believe that, if it's your job to design medieval-esque weaponry and related stuff, you should do some research, get into the topic and try to deliver the best result you can. Likewise, as I presume (as @slimgrin mentioned) this is based on a render, the animator should notice that something is off and not-quite-finished if the bowstring keeps clipping through her arm. Then there's the PR/Marketing person who decided to choose this specific render and probably did some work in Photoshop on it - that person didn't notice either, nor did he/she notice the awkwardly bent bowstring.
I get that they're on a tight schedule - even more so, since the game's release has already been pushed - but some of that stuff, like the quiver being on the wrong side, would not have taken any extra work to get right and don't take an expert on archery to notice (heck, you just have to act out the motion once and you'd see that it's awkward and/or blocks your vision to draw something with your right hand from your left shoulder).
It all just screams extreme carelessness, like they don't care at all about any quality standard, but anything that somewhat resembles the target is fine.


A couple of words on the Witcher examples you give:
I will not hesitate a second to agree with you on Ciri's heels and Saskia's armor. Although I don't think the fault lies with carelessness, but with marketing. CDPR tends to overdo their "Look, we're so mature!"-agenda with the occassional juvenile misstep - Ciri as the highheeled hot warrior princess, Saskia's armor cleavage, some of the marketing on how gritty and brutal The Witcher is, etc. It's marketing gone wrong (or, not really, because that's precisely what you need to attract the younger audience. Give them boobs, violence and claims of maturity. They will love it and not even notice that the actual maturity lies elsewhere in these games).
Saskia not wearing a helmet on the other hand, I believe is a very conscious design decision. As far as video games go, TW2 has a relatively large cast of characters with their own agendas and has a relatively complex narrative that often is centered around these characters and agendas. Therefore, it's very important to make the characters, whenever they're on stage, instantly recognizable. You don't want anyone wondering even for a split second who that character is.

Did you read the piece from, I think it was GameInformer, where they mention CDPR's flora super nerd? There's a guy there who basically knows all about plants and ecosystems and the like. So, when designing an environment they approach him with something like "Hey, we thought we might add some sunflowers to that region. How about that?" and he'd answer "That's cool. You should totally add A, B and C as well, as they are often found nearby. And there's D, isn't there? Better move that elsewhere, it wouldn't grow in the exact same climate". And that kind of stuff is just great. They might end up putting D there anyways, because they like the looks of it and they're not constricted by strict realism, but they do it as a conscious decision, not because they're ignorant of the issue.
And they use that kind of approach for many, many things. They care about what they're doing, they think stuff through and they're doing their best to get things just the way they want them.


Edit: A quick Google search revealed that contemporaries of Jeanne D'Arc - who very clearly is the model for Saskia - stated that she often went into battle bareheaded. It was not unusual for military commanders in general at the time, but (and this is just personal interpretation) it is even less surprising if you take into consideration that she has symbolic value - and seeing the symbol of your cause on the battlefield can only be good for morale.
 
Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
  • RED Point
Reactions: Unkindled
V

volsung

Forum veteran
#2,585
Sep 25, 2014
Cheylus said:
@eliharel
There is no autoregen between combats, unlike DAO and DA2, limited supply of potion for healing (you have to refill your flasks at your camp), no spirit healer.
That's a very good thing in my opinion: even the fight you're meant to win from the start becomes meaningful. If you know you're in a fight you're certain to win, you'll still have to worry about how much health you're losing.
Click to expand...
But can your characters actually DIE? Or do they just fall unconscious and sustain largely irrelevant injuries that heal easily and/or automatically at camp.

I hope they also got rid of the whole "catch them all" companion system, where everyone levels up passively just sitting on their asses eating donuts. No sense of compromise and opening/closing paths.

I think the lack of a healer is actually a step back. It clearly shows they are going for the kick on the door approach where everyone is a skilled killing machine.

Does any of you remember the Temple District underground in Athkatla, where a cult had occupied the temple of the dead sun god Amaunator? The creature sustained itself from injuries and would not die, but you could banish it with a healing spell :) Bioware... what happened!?
 
Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
V

Veleda.980

Rookie
#2,586
Sep 25, 2014
Why is restricted healing considered a good gameplay improvement? I really don't get it. If you're against healing potions and healers, leave the healer mage in camp and don't take potions with you.

I'll definitely be modding that as soon as possible- assuming I play the game, and assuming you can mod it at all. To me it's pointless drudgery, like making bosses damage sponges. I'd much rather have combat that looked exciting and dynamic without being an over-the-top MMO blastfest.
 
U

Unkindled

Rookie
#2,587
Sep 25, 2014
Veleda said:
Why is restricted healing considered a good gameplay improvement? I really don't get it. If you're against healing potions and healers, leave the healer mage in camp and don't take potions with you.

I'll definitely be modding that as soon as possible- assuming I play the game, and assuming you can mod it at all. To me it's pointless drudgery, like making bosses damage sponges. I'd much rather have combat that looked exciting and dynamic without being an over-the-top MMO blastfest.
Click to expand...
It makes you have to think about what you're doing and makes the battles less attack button spammy, if you're limited to health potions and don't have a healer. I'm not gung ho for the idea, but it's one I can see the benefits of. It's an attempt to make battles more strategic, though I'd argue that having a healer didn't really make it less so. Obviously, they want it to have a more desperate feel. It's not totally different with witcher. You can't heal until after battle unless you enhance your vitality regen, which for me added a lot to the feel of the game. Made combat more intense.

If people have issue with it, they can just lower the difficulty. Not a big deal to me, with potions present. Potions were never hard to come by in DA.
 
O

octavian123

Forum veteran
#2,588
Sep 25, 2014
@aaden

Actually a helmet with motifs that characterize her would have increased her image. If it works with Darth Vader it could work with Saskia. Armor, especially helmets are very common tools to make characters more interesting (and recognizable) like The Lich King, Sub - Zero and Scorpion and so forth. I'm not saying a helmet that covers her whole face just something that is practical yet still gives her more personality and indicates her true nature (her armor has some draconic touches to it)
 
Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
U

Unkindled

Rookie
#2,589
Sep 25, 2014
Cormacolindor said:
@aaden

Actually a helmet with motifs that characterize her would have increased her image. If it works with Darth Vader it could work with Saskia. Armor, especially helmets are very common tools to make characters more interesting (and recognizable) like The Lich King, Sub - Zero and Scorpion and so forth. I'm not saying a helmet that covers her whole face just something that is practical yet still gives her more personality and indicates her true nature (her armor has some draconic touches to it)
Click to expand...
Na, dude. It works with darth vader because his helmet was ridiculous. People want to see their leader's faces.
 
A

Aaden

Rookie
#2,590
Sep 25, 2014
Refer to the Edit of my above post, @Cormacolindor . Jeanne D'Arc as a theme for Saskia is important.

Also, I think we're deviating. More details on Saskia's headdress will not help us with discussing DAI in the broadest sense or BW's quality of work in particular, I think. If you differ, proceed - certainly don't want to kill off the discussion. :) But I'd much rather hear your opinion on some of the other points I raised.
 
C

chance52

Senior user
#2,591
Sep 25, 2014
Unkindled said:
Them priding themselves on realism is honestly news to me. Where'd that come from in a game with mutants, sorceresses, trolls, etc?
Click to expand...
They actually do pride themselves on trying to offer as much realism as they can.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/02/22/capturing-the-animations-and-combat-for-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt.aspx

"While the main actors and cutscenes are recorded elsewhere, lead animator Tomasz Zawada is taking advantage of the new space and equipment to ensure that The Witcher 3 has a much larger library of animations than previous entries. With the help of master swordsman Maciej Kwiatkowski (from the stunt group called Stunt Forces), the space is also used to practice and capture Geralt's movements and all of the other combat animations for the game."

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/06/26/cd-projekt-red-making-witcher-iiis-open-world-incredibly-detailed/

This might be too much of a botany-oriented question, but, when you were looking at this vegetation, were you just looking at these paintings and photographs like you mentioned, or did you actually take a look at specific plants and say “Okay, these belong in this ecosystem,” and things like that?


Absolutely! Absolutely! We have a guy, an artist, who did the vegetation for The Witcher II, and he’s responsible for solely focusing on the vegetation in The Witcher III. He’s a guru when it comes to botany—I mean, the man’s amazing. He knows exactly what we need, how it’s planted, when and where it grows, what time of the year it grows, what eats it.

When we told him we wanted sunflowers, he’d tell us things like “Okay, then take that away, it wouldn’t grow there… these two things wouldn’t cross-breed.” He’d say, “Okay, this bush only grows in cold climates, so we’re going to put them on these coastal islands, ones with more of a Nordic influence [tall cliffs and snow].” There’s a specific kind of leaf that grows in areas with hard winds, so, we’d look for bushes…I can’t remember the name, but there’s a reddish-purple bush that grows low and by the coast.


 
Cheylus

Cheylus

Senior user
#2,592
Sep 25, 2014
"Realism" doesn't work everytime in video games.
Plausibility is better term for a lot of thing (including dragons, mutant, trolls, magic, etc.), I think.
 
U

Unkindled

Rookie
#2,593
Sep 25, 2014
chance said:
They actually do pride themselves on trying to offer as much realism as they can.
[/I]
Click to expand...
Is this a campaign for realism, or is it simply wanting to make a detailed and believable world?

On the surface, that sounds like the same thing, but the former suggests that they've set up a limiting rule for themselves, which they haven't. I could be wrong, but going off of these, which I've seen, all I'm seeing is a choice of a theme, one that they see fit to occasionally break.

Getting kind of semantics esque, but basically, just because they've chosen to keep aspects of their world what we'd consider reasonable and realistic, doesn't mean they're going back on their word or something when some details don't hold up to that like some suggest. Not you, of course, Chance. I'm just speaking generally.

Cheylus said:
"Realism" doesn't work everytime in video games.
Plausibility is better term for a lot of thing (including dragons, mutant, trolls, magic, etc.), I think.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
C

chance52

Senior user
#2,594
Sep 25, 2014
Cheylus said:
"Realism" doesn't work everytime in video games.
Plausibility is better term for a lot of thing (including dragons, mutant, trolls, magic, etc.), I think.
Click to expand...
Unkindled said:
Is this a campaign for realism, or is it simply wanting to make a detailed and believable world?

On the surface, that sounds like the same thing, but the former suggests that they've set up a limiting rule for themselves, which they haven't. I could be wrong, but going off of these, which I've seen, all I'm seeing is a choice of a theme, one that they see fit to occasionally break.

Getting kind of semantics esque, but basically, just because they've chosen to keep aspects of their world what we'd consider reasonable and realistic, doesn't mean they're going back on their word or something when some details don't hold up to that like some suggest. Not you, of course, Chance. I'm just speaking generally.
Click to expand...
I think attention to detail is very important when producing, well, just about anything. "God is in the detail" as the idiom goes. Though you two make a good point, plausibility might be a better word to use for their design choices


EDIT: Well this settles their intent haha. Good timing with the latest Witcher video to answer your question.

"While developing the Witcher one of the key intentions was to create a world that is as similar to the real life as possible."
Monika Gliniecka
Quality Assurance Specialist
 
Last edited: Sep 25, 2014
U

Unkindled

Rookie
#2,595
Sep 25, 2014
chance said:
I think attention to detail is very important when producing, well, just about anything. "God is in the detail" as the idiom goes. Though you two make a good point, plausibility might be a better word to use for their design choices


EDIT: Well this settles their intent haha. Good timing with the latest Witcher video to answer your question.

"While developing the Witcher one of the key intentions was to create a world that is as similar to the real life as possible."
Monika Gliniecka
Quality Assurance Specialist
Click to expand...
LOL yea that pretty much settles it then.
 
HellKnightX88

HellKnightX88

Forum veteran
#2,596
Sep 28, 2014
That archer pic... wow... just wow... so much fail in that.
 
ReptilePZ

ReptilePZ

Wordrunner
#2,597
Sep 28, 2014

It's a surprisingly pleasant presentation about the artstyle and overall character, level and environment design (even if I don't personally enjoy DA:I's artstyle). Might actually be better than The Witcher one and its kitten mechanics or whatever (have yet to see it though).
 
O

octavian123

Forum veteran
#2,598
Sep 28, 2014
I really like what I'm seeing.
 
gregski

gregski

Moderator
#2,599
Sep 28, 2014
Definitely more professional than what I saw of The Witcher presentation. The guy from Bioware also wasn't dodging every second question with "I don't know if I want to spoil it bla bla bla" like Damien was IMO.
 
O

octavian123

Forum veteran
#2,600
Sep 28, 2014
Those weather effects are amazing.
 
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