Dragon Age: Inquisition

[volsung]

There's obviously something wrong with a game that causes continuous criticism and arguments in all possible aspects. So take it for what it is: criticism. We want games to be better, not to become... this.

And yes there are games that (barely) fit into genres we know because their elements resemble recognizable tropes. For instance, we tend to associate sci fi with space, aliens and robots (doesn't have to be) and high fantasy with medieval looking settings. Or RPG with "stats and roaming". Doesn't mean any one member that barely fits these categories is representative of the entire genre. For instance robotic aliens in space, where things don't have to make sense or reflect anything we know about reality, is fantasy. Or just fiction.

From what we've seen, DAI is not only failing in the RPG department (consistency, coherence, causality) but in taking its chosen literary setting to an absurd extreme (flying rogues). The point of any type of fiction is not to show off dragons or space ships, but to present relevant scenarios in different but somewhat possible worlds. Science fiction sets a harder restriction: possible worlds. When nothing matters or makes sense it becomes, like others said, a game about killing and special effects. Like many first person shooters.

Bioware/EA is a large and powerful corporation. It might have an influence in the future of mainstream gaming. This is why games like this, though shitty, concern us all.

 

[HellKnightX88]

I dearly hope the game will be moddable to some extent.

That would be awesome. Mods only make games better because you can tailor gameplay and even content to your likes/dislikes. But it's Frostbite 3, DICE (creators of the engine) have repeatedly shot down the idea of modding. I wouldn't hold my breath TBH.

 

[Unkindled]

Problem with all this obsession over labels to genres and why it's bullshit is that people are arguing against opinion, claiming they're wrong. And not only are people arguing against opinion, they're using their own opinion to try and prove fact, despite the fact that the definition of science fiction is firmly established, and as I said before, Mass Effect fits. I'm not going to argue the point further, as like I said, people arguing against that are just factually wrong by the very definition given. Science fiction novels games and stories do not have to be in a world that is "possible", because science fiction generally exists in a futuristic world not of the present, and no one can predict the future, and therefore, no one has authority to say what world is possible. Yes that logic can be abused, as there is some common sense to be had here, but the point is still the same. No one can truly say what lies in the future, and even a world of science fiction that seems more plausible than others is unlikely to be accurately true, so no one has the authority to declare what world is qualified for science fiction, as long as the most basic and defining tropes are there.

The same goes for RPGs, though with Skyrim, the game label says "action rpg", so already it admits it's a loose fit, but a fit it is, none the less.

None of that even matters to the topic at hand though, because Dragon Age Inquisition, which is an rpg... won't be good or bad just because of some bullshit labeling that people use to dismiss and ignore things they dislike. It'll be bad or good depending on the story, and the characters ultimately. Which... I'm already very very skeptical of. One reason of which being, we've heard very little of either.

 

[Cheylus]

-snip-

Thank you for your answer.

I think there was something wrong with people expecting BioWare to do BG with DA:O (something wrong with people making BG a piece of art in the first place, as I said here). As for criticizing a game before it ships, usual stuff. It happens a lot on this forum (some people's mindset can't bear the idea you can like Manchester and Liverpool) but in most place I've been it's the regular bunch of excited people and well, "comedians".

As for the "RPG department", alright but let's play a little game then.

ME: OK, if I say vague and deep words like CONSISTENCY, COHERENCE, CAUSALITY, it makes of think of what type of games?
NO1: Scrabble!
NO2: I don't know man, it looks like very serious stuff... The Last of Us? The Walking Dead? Total War? Civilization?
NO3: Well, that could be a lot of thing really, Gran Turismo, FIFA or Mario to me. No idea what you're talking about.

ME: OK and if I say game with mages, knights and thieves using health and mana potions, having stats they can level up while fighting evil people in a convoluted story in which you're granted more freedom than usual?
NO1: RPG.
NO2: Role-playing games?
NO3: Definitely RPG.

I know I might be a little bit shallow by suggesting this definition I don't agree with, but that's how it works for most people. Your definition -- which reminds me of my national motto -- is like birds in the sky, it's beautiful, but doesn't mean as much to me as the bits of chicken I've got in my plate under my very eyes and teeth.

"The point of any type of fiction is to present relevant scenarios in different but somewhat possible worlds."
And words should be wrote from left to right, the point of painters is to represent real stuff and real people, poetry should be made to praise the king and entertaining movies without social message are irrelevant.
How is DA less relevant then than say Ghostbusters, Krull or Indiana Jones?

But at least it helped me understanding why you hate DA:I now.

 

[Blothulfur]

Fuck me has anybody got any arse cream to soothe all the butthurt?

 

[Unkindled]

No but I've got some duct tape you can utilize. @Cheylus, lol that post you linked to... I've never seen those Dragon Age Inquisition fan art images before... hilariously bad.

 

[Cheylus]

@Blothulfur
Well sir you shat on my last post (I... guess?) but you'll always make me smile with your arse stuff

 

[Aes Sídhe]

I'm not a "fan" so I won't give my life and too much energy and words in defending DA, and I don't take that kind of thing personally. Nobody is arguing against me (right?).

No we are all talking about the game. Honestly, if anyone is taking things personally here, it is you. I also note that minimum 50% of your posts are on this thread, compare to my less than 1%. Just pointing out something in this thread we can actually call a fact.

I only have a really hard time qualifying as "critic" someone who tells me an apple is an orange because the apple has the same diameter as an orange, especially when he says he's here for the comedy. I have a hard time understanding how DA:I is supposed to have "zero RPG elements" .

So take what I said as valid for me and move on. And don't assume I'm not also a fan of FPS, in fact I am very much, and I bet i've been playing them longer than you. This is supposed to be an RPG, and yet seems to have next to zero rpg elements and looks more like another genre. Its the impression i've been given by numerous elements in the game, and its a valid comment.

Misquote much for your own purposes? And when did I ever claim to be a critic? Are you saying I can't voice an opinion here? Must I only say good things? I'm not sure what you are trying to point out here, but it smells very fishy. Commenting my opinion is all I have done, and I have bought EVERY Bioware game, and like many people here know the companys history very well, not that that is required for freedom of speech.

I Mea Culpa, I see my error. My mistake is using my own vocabulary, my own terms, expecting some small interpretation. I play loads of FPS's, I very rarely play TPS's. So my bad, I should've just said "Shooter" because that is what I mean, and reasonable people would understand the similarity, and not fuss & constantly ask for clarification on natural language terms (and I'm not using those quotation marks condescendingly).

Here is the last TPS I played, and I admit I liked playing this the once for various reasons, but even with some customisation options & dialogue, no one would dare call it an RPG. Its an Action Shooter, and its gameplay is what I see when I look at DA:I. Except DA:I has lock on.

On other conversations people have on other threads here we have talked about the growing vagueness of genre classification. I have insisted we need more classifiers, and you know what heres one for this game I think we could actually all agree on "Awesome Button". Hopefully on that note of camaraderie I bail out (until the next video).

 

[Cheylus]

- "critic" point: I was answering to Unkindled, and I thought he said you were making "criticism". No big deal.
- "personal things" point: well, I was still answering the person I was quoting (not you) and who felt insulted because he liked what others don't. But I am the one who's taking things personally :wallbash:
- "50% of my posts" point: well that's true I'm interested in DA:I and also interested about the drama out there. The topic has more posts and views than most of the other topics too, it definitely catch the eyes for a lot of people. I could talk about TW3 but people are already saying things I would; that's not the case here.
- Sorry for the misquote, not intended. I have a hard time dealing with exaggerations here and there, guess I've been infused a bit.
- "Awesome button": Do you mean for DA:I? Well last videos show pushing buttons mindlessly doesn't work anymore on normal difficulty. As for colorful dance moves happening when you make an input, I don't bother.
Thank you for the Warhammer example, that's an interesting thing to think about.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

- "critic" point: I was answering to Unkindled, and I thought he said you were making "criticism". No big deal.
- "personal things" point: well, I was still answering the person I was quoting (not you) and who felt insulted because he liked what others don't. But I am the one who's taking things personally :wallbash:
- "50% of my posts" point: well that's true I'm interested in DA:I and also interested about the drama out there. The topic has more posts and views than most of the other topics too, it definitely catch the eyes for a lot of people. I could talk about TW3 but people are already saying things I would; that's not the case here.
- Sorry for the misquote, not intended. I have a hard time dealing with exaggerations here and there, guess I've been infused a bit.
- "Awesome button": Do you mean for DA:I? Well last videos show pushing buttons mindlessly doesn't work anymore on normal difficulty. As for colorful dance moves happening when you make an input, I don't bother.
Thank you for the Warhammer example, that's an interesting thing to think about.

Awesome Button: Yes I mean DA:I. It's not about pushing buttons mindlessly, i'm surprised you don;t know the reference as it's been in the thread many times by many people, and it's the first time I used it myself. I used digital premature ejaculation to mean the same effect on the player. Here's an excellent, though rather long & ultimately boring & unfulfilling explanation in a video:

 

[Unkindled]

I do agree on their leaning towards the awesome button, and definitely agree on their wanting to cater to shooter fans (I agree that'd be an easier term to use for the point made). I'm not however sure that they're nearly at the point of leaning from rpg elements to make this comparison. To a Third Person Shooter though.

Mass Effect 2 most certainly did, as well as Mass Effect 3, despite having a few more rpg elements to it than before. The games were less about your build and more about your skill. And while there are rpgs that are arguably similar in that regard, like Witcher, and like Dark Souls, I think everyone here will agree that Mass Effect in 2 and 3 practically abandoned all rpg elements to combat completely. It wasn't about your build really. The build just made combat a bit easier and was still mostly reliant on skill.

Well, Witcher 2 seemed a bit more skill heavy than some rpgs. Witcher 1 was a lot more heavy on preparation and build than anything else in comparison. Unless you count timing of stroke clicks in 1, lol, which I really don't.

Anyway, I don't think Dragon Age Inquisition is at this point. From the gameplay video we've seen recently, it didn't look like much skill was involved at all, and when fighting the bosses, the youtube uploader commented that at this level, he didn't think fighting and killing the dragon was at all plausible without going far away and spamming fireballs from a distance that you can't even target the dragon from. I remember doing that in Origins with the arch demon and those ballistae. That's something you typically only ever hear in an rpg. Leveling up, something that is crucial in an rpg to make a multitude of things easier. That to me as far as gameplay goes for rpgs is crucial to what makes it an rpg. That's why I'll defend Skyrim or the new fallouts as being rpgs, while I won't at all for Mass Effect 2 and 3.

I think at most, one could say Dragon Age Inquisition is a poor rpg that focuses too much on looks. Though it's too early to truly say something like that until we've played it. The only thing I'm commenting on in critique is the look of the game, characters, and the look of the gameplay, which so far I hate. How it actually works though so far to me looks positive. As long as the only challenging thing about it isn't its bosses. All we've seen so far though of the game are its early and first levels.

 

[Blothulfur]

@Blothulfur
Well sir you shat on my last post (I... guess?) but you'll always make me smile with your arse stuff

Nah not trying to, just can't see all fuss. Bioware isn't above being ridiculous, can't see any reason for getting mad when we laugh at the ridiculousness of their settings and writing. Folk having a laugh at silly stuff shouldn't upset you, so long as you enjoyed the game it's fulfilled its purpose.

@Unkindled. Duct tape, no ta got plenty.
@aes Sidhe. Fuck Space Marine was pure.

 

[Cheylus]

Not upset; at 30 and after 15 years of video games' forums if you're upset about that you're evenly childish and senile (I have yet to become senile).
I have a pretty big list of things I don't like about the game (I usually voice it on the BSN though), but on the other hand I can't forget that BioWare are the only devs who are interested in making party-based RPG that don't rely mostly on nostalgia*, hence the idea it's "incoherent" to me.

edit: *on that scale at least

 

[ek79]

so long as you enjoyed the game it's fulfilled its purpose.

My case here. I really liked the last gameplays form yesterday.
Day one for me.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

Fuck Space Marine was pure.

It was a good game, thoroughly enjoyed it, it was exactly what it said on the box, no pretensions, and I also recommend it, and could even imagine blazing through it again down the line for the sheer craic, though whether you must be a 40k fan first I dunno. Really wish you could've taken that Titan for a ride at the end. Epic 40k was one of my favourite tabletops, and still waiting for a computer game to capture that massive scale, I guess it'd have to be co-op or some kind of MMO to work, or singleplayer RTS/TBS ofc.

I suppose its inspired Destiny, but I'm not touching that with your Thunder Hammer

Reminds me of an argument I had here with a few people who didn't believe my prediction of Blizzards Titan as vapourware. I'm just as fallible as the next guy, but I got that one right seemingly against all the odds...

 

[PsyCoil]

This game looks beautiful but the story still got the same spirit as Dragon Age 2.

Spoiler

Skyhold - Here Lies the Abyss

The Grey Wardens are using blood magic and sacrifices to summon an army of demons. The ritual puts both the demon and blood mage leashed to it under Corypheus' control. Unless the Wardens are stopped, Corypheus will have an army of demons in his power.

- Speak with the advisors at the war table in Skyhold

“The controversy about Mass Effect’s ending was just that: it was about the ending,” Dragon Age: Inquisition producer Cameron Lee told MMGN in an interview to be published in the coming weeks. While the ending has hardly dented gamer perceptions of BioWare’s story-telling potential, it was still something Lee said the developer was “positive” about not repeating.
http://mmgn.com/ps4/news--bioware-on-dragon-age-inquisition-s-story-imp

And to think I had high hopes for this one. Damn.

 

[Unkindled]

What if I don't want to stop the Grey Wardens? Lol. They're the only group I actually like in DA, and it sounds to me like they've got the right idea here.

 

[PsyCoil]

What if I don't want to stop the Grey Wardens? Lol. They're the only group I actually like in DA, and it sounds to me like they've got the right idea here.

Sounds to me like the Grey Wardens are becoming the new Cerberus. Just more stupid this time.

 

[Unkindled]

Sounds to me like the Grey Wardens are becoming the new Cerberus. Just more stupid this time.

 

[PsyCoil]

Please explain to me how BioWare writers got the right idea with this quest.

Spoiler

Why would the grey wardens summon demons to fight a battle that isn't theirs? Moreover, summoning demons is why Darkspwan exists.

BioWare writers just went full retard with this.