Dragon Age: Inquisition

[wichat]

Was there anything better in DA2 than DA:O? Anything relevant, I mean? I loved DA:O and I felt deeply disappointed with DS2, maybe because I expected that Biowere were at the level they promised. I believed them. That's why I still remain very skeptical in front DA:I.

So, Bioware and EA

 

[Cs__sz__r]

Like the acrobatics from ASScreed, sit back and watch.

Whoa now! You still have to hold the trigger and slightly push forward.

I also enjoyed combat in Origins. Could have done a lot better with the animations though. Especially with mages.

 

[Garrison72]

I honestly never figured out the combat in DA:O. It seems there wasn't sufficient description of the effects you would get from uprgading your abilities, so I felt like I was pissing in the dark. And the constant pausing got tedious. Tedious as fucking hell. I do feel Bioware hit a sweet spot with ME's combat and I wish DA was more twitch based as well.

 

[Alan989]

From what I played of Dragon Age: Origins, I felt the hybrid combat system that they used, if you could call it that, was just slow and clunky. I'm one of these people who prefers either pure turn-based or pure real-time combat, and I just can't see why you would want to create a mix between the two. I could just be old-fashioned of course! :smiling:

 

[ReptilePZ]

I honestly never figured out the combat in DA:O. It seems there wasn't sufficient description of the effects you would get from uprgading your abilities, so I felt like I was pissing in the dark. And the constant pausing got tedious. Tedious as fucking hell. I do feel Bioware hit a sweet spot with ME's combat and I wish DA was more twitch based as well.

I can safely say that it's just not your type of game, judging from that description.

Pausing was the best part.

 

[volsung]

From what I played of Dragon Age: Origins, I felt the hybrid combat system that they used, if you could call it that, was just slow and clunky. I'm one of these people who prefers either pure turn-based or pure real-time combat, and I just can't see why you would want to create a mix between the two. I could just be old-fashioned of course! :smiling:

It's called real-time with pause, or RTwP. It has been around for a while and prominently featured in the legendary Infinity Engine games. It just happens DA doesn't have the best implementation, but it actually is OK. It's slow compared to the ridiculously over the top DA2.

 

[octavian123]

From what I've heard from the interviews, it's going to be a combination of DA:O and DA2, which sounds great to me. Not too slow and not too over-the-top

Here is another shot

It's a lot grittier than what we've seen thus far.

 

[Alan989]

It's called real-time with pause, or RTwP. It has been around for a while and prominently featured in the legendary Infinity Engine games. It just happens DA doesn't have the best implementation, but it actually is OK. It's slow compared to the ridiculously over the top DA2.

My first RPG was Final Fantasy VII. So I guess I was just spoiled with how that series did things. I've always seen the Final Fantasy way of doing things as the best way. Don't assume that I'm a Square fanboy though, I hated the system they used in Final Fantasy 12 and haven't played the series since. I guess RPGs like Dragon Age and all the PC classic games that inspired it aren't for me.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Hmmm, and I've always hated the way combat is done in FF games. Different tastes, I guess.

 

[EmperorZorn]

My first RPG was Final Fantasy VII. So I guess I was just spoiled with how that series did things. I've always seen the Final Fantasy way of doing things as the best way. Don't assume that I'm a Square fanboy though, I hated the system they used in Final Fantasy 12 and haven't played the series since. I guess RPGs like Dragon Age and all the PC classic games that inspired it aren't for me.

Final Fantasy VII is one of my all-time favorites.

Unfortunately Square seems to have forgotten why people liked it so much,
because they struggle to produce a decent successor.

Here's hope that Final Fantasy XV will pick up the torch, especially now that Nomura is back to work on it.
I also like that the series is shifting from ATB combat to real-time combat - now that the technical limitations are gone,
the genre can and has to move forward.

The real time system with pause function already worked great in Crisis Core or the Kingdom Hearts games for example.

 

[volsung]

Traditional cRPG and JRPG are worlds apart. One tries to emulate the tabletop experience, while the other is more of a power trip with no decision making or character creation/development whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder why JRPG's are called RPG's at all. I like some of them, and I would place Chrono Trigger among my list of all time favorite games. But we're talking about two almost completely different genres.

RTwP as it was implemented in the Infinity Engine was a good compromise between the real-time excitement of a video game with the turn based planning of tabletop RPG's. In fact, the real-time element is composed of discrete time steps, not continuous time flow like in RTS games. In IE games we have rounds (6 seconds) and turns (10 rounds, 60 seconds). Every action is mapped onto this time scale, including status effects, attacks per round, movement speed, etc. But you don't just wait for each person's round to be over, you can assign actions, unpause, and everything unfolds in seemingly real time. I think it is an excellent approach for larger scale battles like those in BG and Icewind Dale. You have the choice to transform this into almost full turn-based with "autopause".

Generally this approach to combat as well as full fledged turn based (as in Fallout) leads to very exciting planning and tactical thinking, involving positioning, cover, and the relationship between each of your party members (eg. have your weaker caster/archer/whatever stand behind a stronger character). I can't see any of this in FF style combat.

Modern examples of turn based combat that I find entertaining include XCOM: Enemy Unknown (although tactically limited), the excellent indie Expeditions: Conquistador and Blackguards (based on the German RPG "The Dark Eye"). Among D&D cRPG's, Temple of Elemental Evil is known for its good rendition of pen and paper D&D.

 

[EmperorZorn]

Traditional cRPG and JRPG are worlds apart. One tries to emulate the tabletop experience, while the other is more of a power trip with no decision making or character creation/development whatsoever.

First, I want to say that I prefer western RPGs over J-RPGs.
It used to be the other way around, but the western RPGs have evolved a lot, become better and more immersive than J-RPGs could be.

That being said, I find the current generation of JRPGs especially weak compared to the great games in that genre that came out earlier.
BUT if there is one thing that JRPGs do well it has to be the emphasis on characters and story.


In Star Ocean for example you are confronted with a lot of choice and consequence - if you let one character join you, another might not want to
and the group takes an entirely different path, resulting in different scenes/dialogs throughout the game and at the end of the game.

Especially Star Ocean 2 is a really great and underrated JRPG.
The idea of crashing on an underdeveloped planet and having everyone think that you are the hero of light
just because you have a gun that shoots lasers is fantastic.

The first choice, the choice of character at the beginning already can turn everything into a whole different game,
because you follow the story from different perspectives, of one of the two characters that work together.

Uhm... that's enough.
I just wanted to explain that most J-RPGs out today are the sorry leftover of a glorious genre of games.

Buuuut that's a whole other story, let's talk about DA:I again.

 

[Alan989]

Traditional cRPG and JRPG are worlds apart. One tries to emulate the tabletop experience, while the other is more of a power trip with no decision making or character creation/development whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder why JRPG's are called RPG's at all. I like some of them, and I would place Chrono Trigger among my list of all time favorite games. But we're talking about two almost completely different genres.

RTwP as it was implemented in the Infinity Engine was a good compromise between the real-time excitement of a video game with the turn based planning of tabletop RPG's. In fact, the real-time element is composed of discrete time steps, not continuous time flow like in RTS games. In IE games we have rounds (6 seconds) and turns (10 rounds, 60 seconds). Every action is mapped onto this time scale, including status effects, attacks per round, movement speed, etc. But you don't just wait for each person's round to be over, you can assign actions, unpause, and everything unfolds in seemingly real time. I think it is an excellent approach for larger scale battles like those in BG and Icewind Dale. You have the choice to transform this into almost full turn-based with "autopause".

Generally this approach to combat as well as full fledged turn based (as in Fallout) leads to very exciting planning and tactical thinking, involving positioning, cover, and the relationship between each of your party members (eg. have your weaker caster/archer/whatever stand behind a stronger character). I can't see any of this in FF style combat.

Modern examples of turn based combat that I find entertaining include XCOM: Enemy Unknown (although tactically limited), the excellent indie Expeditions: Conquistador and Blackguards (based on the German RPG "The Dark Eye"). Among D&D cRPG's, Temple of Elemental Evil is known for its good rendition of pen and paper D&D.

I guess we just have different tastes Volsung. I suppose all we can do is to agree to disagree. I'll just bugger off elsewhere and, as EmperorZorn said, leave you guys to talk Dragon Age. :gathering:

 

[volsung]

First off, Star Ocean sounds kind of interesting. Too bad these are console games.

Second, sorry for ranting like that. Feels good to nerd it up once in a while.

And finally, off to DAI I suppose. I hope they can come up with tactically interesting RTwP combat mechanics, since they're bound to throw fights around every corner.

 

[Cs__sz__r]

Off topic: @Volsung Your constant praises of Conquistador ever remind me I really need to get on the ball finally and play it.

 

[Snake9027]

 

[volsung]

More like hinternlands

 

[goopit]

so we're going back to Redcliffe and we'll see if Connor grew up to be an abomination; cool

 

[darcler]

I don't remember Redcliffe looking like that.

 

[Lanfear]

If I'm not wrong some years have passed so I think Redcliffe has changed in some way!