There's supposedly a little more to the process than that, but there's my problem with the whole story.I say supposedly, because if it was a storyteller giving me the exposition, I'd have heckled him with, "that's a load of hogwash, now you're just insulting my intelligence."
My problem with the creation of the wardens is this.
There were some things that I enjoyed very much about DA. Yet, there were some things that I did not, and that plotgap was one of the things (especially after my character romanced Alistair). The other was the very end before you find out what resulting consequences your choices took (the cinematic right after you slay the antagonist and the resulting consequence that lead up to it). But I'm not going to spoil it for those who have not played it through with the options I took.
I believe I heard someone telling me it took magic and darkspawn blood. Even in his short time being a grey warden, I would have thought Alistair would have privy to such knowledge. After all, wouldn't he have help Duncan with the joining ritual in the first place? Surely, my mage would have been like "I'll lend my aid so we could create more wardens" instead of spending most of her time at the camp flirting with the three RAs.
Like I said before, I like this game.I also like to sit around a fire and tell stories.If I didn't like this game, I wouldn't want to talk about what happened in it in the first place.But I won't, as those plot points that are held together by frayed string = me too embarassed to talk about the game to someone who hasn't played it.
No. Fine, if you want it spoiled....You need an Archdemon's blood for the Joining ritual. You had no Archdemon blood. Riordan says Ferelden's supply has been stolen/destroyed. Even if it wasn't, you still would have had no idea you even need the blood...I hope you didn't play through the game. Because if you did.. you're mocking something that was explained in the game. You really shouldn't be so quick to judge before you've done some research.. and again, a Blight cannot be ended without Grey Wardens. The ability to sense Darkspawn and tap into their hive mind is just a bonus.And Tlaz, please, stop dancing around the issue. "Let me just say Alistair went missing, and the ability to make more became IMO a "stopgap" measure." What is that supposed to mean?Is this some kind of a strange way of admitting you have no idea what you're talking about? Because if you do, then say it clearly.Conclusion: There's no plot hole regarding the Grey Wardens. It's all told in the game.. it's not the games fault if you do not follow the story.Darksavior, I think Alistair helped Duncan with the ritual, but why would Duncan need Alistair's help in making the "potion"? He obviously mixed the ingredients alone as Alistair didn't know about it.. and if you read the explanation above, your mage could not have helped in creating any more Grey WardensUnkreativ said:
I did forget you needed a drop of an Archdemon blood (not specifically the one who is leading the Blight at the given time). The entire "potion" is: lyrium, darkspawn blood, and a drop of an Archdemon blood. As said, there are many side effects to this. Side effects/Boon of the JoiningDezired said:Darksavior, I think Alistair helped Duncan with the ritual, but why would Duncan need Alistair's help in making the "potion"? He obviously mixed the ingredients alone as Alistair didn't know about it.. and if you read the explanation above, your mage could not have helped in creating any more Grey Wardens
dreams (could be prophetic), abilities to sense the darkspawn, low reproductive rates (2 gray wardens are very unlikely to have a child together) according to Alistair, and very shorten lifespans (a warden lives to about the age 30 where they travel to the Deep Roads to fight the darkspawn). Also, the sensing darkspawn is a double edge sword because it allows the darkspawn to sense the warden on occasions, also. This lead the darkspawn to hunt wardens on occasion. Hints in the DA WIki seemed to suggest that they are forever linked to the darkspawn and corrupted by the blood they drank.
You've got the age thing a bit mixed up. They don't live to about the age of 30... they live 30 years, give or take, AFTER they've been through the Joining. In other words, it takes the taint about 30 years to.. taint you.There are no plotholes regarding the Grey Wardens. Just put *SPOILERS* ahead of your post if you're afraid of spoiling it for someone..
Yep, I did get the thirty years a bit mixed up.Dezired said:
Regarding Landsmeet and Consequences
The plot hole that we are talking about comes after the Landsmeet where the player is given the choice for Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir to make him into a grey warden. This, of course, makes Alistair leave if the player chooses this path. I, myself, find it hard to believe that the warden Riordan carries drops of an Archdemon's blood with him. Remember, he was locked away at the hands of Arl Howe. Doing so, the Arl stripped him of his belongings. He had to kill the guard and take the guard's armor in a cutscene. After all, all of the supplies in Feralden has been depleted. Where did the archdemon blood come from that made Loghain into a grey warden if the player chose to go that root? The other wardens of Orlais had not arrived. According to Alistair, they arrive after the archdemon is dead and the coronation scene.
Because Alistair left with all the armor I had on him, I reloaded it and stayed with Alistair and let Alistair have his way with him through both my play-throughs. But I am pretty sure. Apparently after some research in it, I found out:
My 3rd playthrough is with a city elf, and I'm going to have her save Loghain. It is possible that there was a little archdemon blood left because it only takes a drop of it for the Joining.
Loghain could be chosen to sacrifice himself in the death of the Archspawn, saving the Player. My first playthrough I seen both sides of the ritual with Morrigan. So, it would be like Alistair would have been chosen to sacrifice himself if he was there at the final battle. I believe this would make him a full grey warden.
Stupid spoilers ...Anyway, Loghain has the archdemon blood.And as I've said before, it's a lame plot point.'cos everyone seems to be so "ooh aah a grey warden" and they don't know about the magic bullet thing, and apart from the magic bullet thing grey wardens don't do anything special.
I know I'm talking about that though ...In TW you know what a witcher is, does, reasons they dying out, etc.In DA:O, what's the point of a grey warden?Answer: No reason given at all, until the last hour or so of the game, and then you have no assurance that the design team didn't just tack it on 'cos of their oversight.
It's not a question of stuff you do or do not know, it's a question of your motivation.At any point in the game, the character asks himself/herself, Q: why am I doing this?A: to save the world.Q: someone else can do this, that Loghain guy seems to be making progress.A: but you're the grey warden and he's not.Q: but what's the point of a grey warden?A: as far as you know, NOTHING.
Well, now you're getting somewhere! I agree that they should have told the player before why you need a Grey Warden to end the blight... there IS a reason for Grey Wardens but it just is not explained, really.As for everyone going "ooh, a Grey Warden!".. you don't need any special abilities for that. They know you're an elite warrior who has dedicated his/her life to battling the Darkspawn.. that's enough to create a "woah!" factor.. plus they're legendary.
Well, I have to disagree with you there.I've been saying all along there's nothing special about grey wardens, and (though I don't know this as fact) the endgame was altered 'cos ppl complained about it during testing.I.e. tacked on.Does the magic bullet thing really look seamlessly integrated with the rest of the game to you?It's what sets apart a great RPG from just a great dungeon crawl: motivation.Diablo 2: Why am I doing this? Ehh, who cares, I'm playing a game.Baldur's Gate: Why am I doing this? OMFG this guy's story is amazing.