Drm free mentality

[ChristophWr]

So cloud gaming is right around the corner and im a huge fan of cdpr supporting drm free games.Do you guys think this will change in the future and drm free is a thing of the past?I will never support cloud gaming because it’s the most consumer unfriendliest way to play your games.I personally think it’s always possible to play locally because many people care about ownership,modding etc.On a local device you will always have the best gaming experience(If you have the hardware of course).So in general i hope that cdpr will always support the consumer friendliest way possible for cyberpunk and the upcoming games in the future.Lg

 

[CyberBobber]

Usually gamers follow the strongest, CDPR isnt exactly up there. Smart branding does break or make GoG, imho, if CDPR decides to be kind of "jack of all trades", they wont make it, too many heavy hitters around the corner like Steam, Origin, PS and MS etc. Even Amazon. Ubisoft has pretty impressive launcher/store these days too.

 

[Surfinjo]

The confusion of what DRM Free means is exemplified here.

Having to connect to the internet in order to play, does not invalidate DRM Free. If you want to play with others, online, then you need to be online.

DRM Free means you don't have to seek the permission of a third party. The rights belong to you. I buy a car, for example. It is my car. I don't have to seek anyone's permission to use it. I can get it professionally serviced anywhere I wish, or not even, (if I were a complete idiot!). It does not give me the right to copy that car and sell my copy. It does not give me the right to use the car's name on my own products.

I own my copys of Witcher. They are mine to use as I choose. I cannot copy them nor use any of the coprighted names. Neither can I disassemble the code.

STEAM for example, retains the DRM for itself. you must download and run their client, before you can access any of their games.

That means you must put up with their advertising. You loose bandwidth. Your PC is open to snooping and even attack.

 

[Hoplite_22]

So cloud gaming is right around the corner and im a huge fan of cdpr supporting drm free games.Do you guys think this will change in the future and drm free is a thing of the past?I will never support cloud gaming because it’s the most consumer unfriendliest way to play your games.I personally think it’s always possible to play locally because many people care about ownership,modding etc.On a local device you will always have the best gaming experience(If you have the hardware of course).So in general i hope that cdpr will always support the consumer friendliest way possible for cyberpunk and the upcoming games in the future.Lg

Cloud gaming isn't for people that are gaming right now, they already have the hardware and if they could afford the kind of internet connection required for Cloud gaming to work they probably could afford any kind of gaming hardware.

Honestly i am not sure who cloud gaming is actually for. is like cable packages but for gaming.

So no, i don't think it's going to affect CDPRs business model any time soon.

 

[ChristophWr]

If ever....why would someone want to erase the ability to play locally.

Post automatically merged: Jul 16, 2019

Cloud gaming isn't for people that are gaming right now, they already have the hardware and if they could afford the kind of internet connection required for Cloud gaming to work they probably could afford any kind of gaming hardware.

Honestly i am not sure who cloud gaming is actually for. is like cable packages but for gaming.

So no, i don't think it's going to affect CDPRs business model any time soon.

 

[Snowflakez]

Cloud gaming is being pushed because its good for companies. Not consumers. Oh, sure, it's good for SOME consumers, who don't want to/can't afford hardware but want to run games well (but also have good internet). It's also good for gaming high-quality on the go.

But make no mistake: companies are not altruistic. Do you really think they care about helping anybody or making anybody's experience better? Hell no. Cloud gaming puts literally ALL of the control of EVERY SINGLE GAME into the hands of a few companies. All control is removed from the player -- every little bit of it. Wheres you can access many Steam games offline or even without the launcher being open (Steam does not require DRM, just so everyone is aware), there is absolutely no way you will ever access your cloud library again if your account is banned, or if the service shuts down someday. You cannot edit .ini files, you cannot mod your game, you cannot do any of the things you expect to be able to do on console or PC.

It's a dangerous idea. It's almost Orwellian to me. And I will not support it under any circumstances. Buying games on Stadia or similar services is the equivalent of handing over control of your media to giant corporations. There's not even a value proposition here, because on Stadia in particular, you still have to buy the games and the subscription.

 

[ChristophWr]

Cloud gaming is being pushed because its good for companies. Not consumers. Oh, sure, it's good for SOME consumers, who don't want to/can't afford hardware but want to run games well (but also have good internet). It's also good for gaming high-quality on the go.

But make no mistake: companies are not altruistic. Do you really think they care about helping anybody or making anybody's experience better? Hell no. Cloud gaming puts literally ALL of the control of EVERY SINGLE GAME into the hands of a few companies. All control is removed from the player -- every little bit of it. Wheres you can access many Steam games offline or even without the launcher being open (Steam does not require DRM, just so everyone is aware), there is absolutely no way you will ever access your cloud library again if your account is banned, or if the service shuts down someday. You cannot edit .ini files, you cannot mod your game, you cannot do any of the things you expect to be able to do on console or PC.

It's a dangerous idea. It's almost Orwellian to me. And I will not support it under any circumstances. Buying games on Stadia or similar services is the equivalent of handing over control of your media to giant corporations. There's not even a value proposition here, because on Stadia in particular, you still have to buy the games and the subscription.

Kudos to you well said and in a long term you pay much more with cloud gaming and companies have complete controll over you.The nvidia ceo says that cloud gaming could never replace a gaming rig what is logical so i stick with that anyway.Modding is a big part of pc gaming and i think local gaming will always be around because gamers want options i think.For casual gamers it would be an option but not for real gamers

 

[Hoplite_22]

Cloud gaming is being pushed because its good for companies. Not consumers. Oh, sure, it's good for SOME consumers, who don't want to/can't afford hardware but want to run games well (but also have good internet)

See this is the bit i don't get (agreed on the rest of it, not even disagreeing with this bit, just think they must be some sort of mythical beast) anyone affluent enough to have a high quality low latency internet connect and is interested in game but for some reason hasn't just bought a console? do they think there are millions of this bizarre human begging them for this service? because the at least twice before that i know of that this has been tried had a hard time, to the point of closing or being bought out.

 

[Snowflakez]

See this is the bit i don't get (agreed on the rest of it, not even disagreeing with this bit, just think they must be some sort of mythical beast) anyone affluent enough to have a high quality low latency internet connect and is interested in game but for some reason hasn't just bought a console? do they think there are millions of this bizarre human begging them for this service? because the at least twice before that i know of that this has been tried had a hard time, to the point of closing or being bought out.

Yeah, you aren't wrong. I suppose the only remaining benefit that I can think of would be the ability to play games at 60 FPS (or whatever a given display can support) on virtually any device. the downside is, at present, 4G LTE speeds aren't going to cut it to make that possible. 5G is coming, but slowly.

I don't know. So many problems; functionally, ethically, and otherwise.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

DRM-free demand will remain. Cloud gaming is only OK in addition to regular gaming, not as a substitute. Personally I don't plan to use Stadia, since I only buy DRM-free games.

The main positive thing I see in it, is strong push for developers to unstick from MS lock-in and use Vulkan and Linux as their development targets. That's the best thing Stadia will do.

Post automatically merged: Jul 17, 2019

The nvidia ceo says that cloud gaming could never replace a gaming rig what is logical so i stick with that anyway

He is quite biased here though. Cloud gaming preferred AMD, due to open drivers. So Nvidia CEO feels sore that they won't be able to make money on it. So of course he'll say that it can never replace their GPUs It's right in general though, despite his selfish interest in that. Having your own PC with high end GPU will work for VR as well. Streaming VR won't work.

 

[Hayashi.226]

Just for clarification - what is cloud gaming?

 

[CyberBobber]

Just for clarification - what is cloud gaming?

Google for Google Stadia.

My biggest hope for Google Stadia is they create somekind of jump-pad for big investors. If you want to invest big in game industry, we open the door for you basically. The ground-work you will need to do now in game industry is just painful to watch. If Cyberpunk 2077 flops, CDPR is dead after 20+ year, its really so bad.

Ideally we want people to invest in game industry, then/if their game flops, our main publishers/stores buy their game. Thats my vision anyway.

 

[Guest 3573786]

. Cloud gaming puts literally ALL of the control of EVERY SINGLE GAME into the hands of a few companies. All control is removed from the player -- every little bit of it.

The situation is so bizarre, it would be funny if it werent sad. Just like mobile gaming, those that dont know any better will flock to streaming and make it more and more popular, leaving the rest of us to suffer the negative consequence of that popularity.

Yet another reason why I'm almost completely tuned out of the AAA scene (apart from cdpr). Old classics and new indies is the way for me.

 

[ChristophWr]

The situation is so bizarre, it would be funny if it werent sad. Just like mobile gaming, those that dont know any better will flock to streaming and make it more and more popular, leaving the rest of us to suffer the negative consequence of that popularity.

Yet another reason why I'm almost completely tuned out of the AAA scene (apart from cdpr). Old classics and new indies is the way for me.

Hopefully cloud gaming won’t be that popular i think there are still people with [a taste for classic gaming]. [Edited for tone -- SigilFey]

 

[SigilFey]

Hopefully cloud gaming won’t be that popular...

Old classics and new indies is the way for me.

I think cloud gaming is fantastic as a concept, and I doubt that it will affect more focused games. If anything, it will drastically increase the number of people world-wide that can get into gaming. May come as a shock to some, but the vast majority of the world lives on less than $5,000 USD per year. That's not enough to afford any form of gaming hardware (consoles included)...but in most communities I've seen, people have at least a basic computer, laptop, or smartphone. It could increase the market for gaming by several billion once the tech becomes standardized.

And if anything, it should increase the ability for developers to create really ambitious titles, as some of that increased revenue can be siphoned off to studios that are still designing for "traditional" gaming markets.

Like most everything in the creative field, a new innovation simply opens doors. It doesn't wall off what's always been there. (I remember reading a prognosis in the early 2000's that video games would make cinemas obsolete within 10 years. Did you all see Endgame in theatres? That was a good flick.)

 

[Guest 3573786]

I think cloud gaming is fantastic as a concept, and I doubt that it will affect more focused games. ... Like most everything in the creative field, a new innovation simply opens doors. It doesn't wall off what's always been there. )

I disagree. It certainly wont kill off traditional gaming (at least not in the foreseeable future), but you need only look to mobile gaming to see the possible problems it could cause. The monetization that became rampant on mobile is becoming so much of a problem in standard games that authorities are now getting interested in it. Moreover, you have game entries from beloved franchises now being made exclusively for mobile simply due to its popularity (not to mention it takes away resources and developers from mainline entries). To me, that more than qualifies as walled-off content.

Big publishers gravitate towards what is popular, so once streaming kicks in, what's stopping them from, say, creating games exclusively for streaming? Streaming gives all the control to them and takes all of it from gamers, so you can bet they will do everything they can to get everyone onto it. While it certainly will present some new opportunities, it will by and large be detrimental for gaming. Mere increase of gamer numbers is not a good thing, if the quality of the experience itself is going down.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Big publishers gravitate towards what is popular, so once streaming kicks in, what's stopping them from, say, creating games exclusively for streaming?

So ditch such publishers. There will be better market without them, and if there is enough demand for regular games, someone will address it. Not those big monsters who only care about big markets, but better companies. It's same story with Linux gaming. Market is small, so big publishers don't care. I for the most part don't care about them either - others address the market.

 

[Guest 3573786]

So ditch such publishers.

And how do you propose we do that?

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

And how do you propose we do that?

Ignore their games. Buy from those who don't release just for streaming exclusively, and also release in regular digital stores,

 

[ChristophWr]

I think cloud gaming is fantastic as a concept, and I doubt that it will affect more focused games. If anything, it will drastically increase the number of people world-wide that can get into gaming. May come as a shock to some, but the vast majority of the world lives on less than $5,000 USD per year. That's not enough to afford any form of gaming hardware (consoles included)...but in most communities I've seen, people have at least a basic computer, laptop, or smartphone. It could increase the market for gaming by several billion once the tech becomes standardized.

And if anything, it should increase the ability for developers to create really ambitious titles, as some of that increased revenue can be siphoned off to studios that are still designing for "traditional" gaming markets.

Like most everything in the creative field, a new innovation simply opens doors. It doesn't wall off what's always been there. (I remember reading a prognosis in the early 2000's that video games would make cinemas obsolete within 10 years. Did you all see Endgame in theatres? That was a good flick.)

The best route for gaming in general is to give the player options.If you want the best gaming experience you play your game on a local device and if you want to play with friends for example you can stream your games.A streaming service can never replace a gaming pc and im sure gamers get really mad if streaming would be the only option for them,so im sure this will never happen.But interesting projects can happen that’s true