Dual Wielding Handguns, smg's.... Yes, No, Maybe?

[wisdom000]

Dual Wielding Handguns, smg's.... Yes, No, Maybe?

I know it's not necessary all that effective, I don't care, years of Hong Kong Cinema has taught me it's cool... Plus it's symmetrical, how can you not like Symmetry?

We have two arms for a reason, and that reason is to shoot up shit with both hands, two fisted tales of cyberpunk awesome...

Do you really want to be the guy who brings one fist to that party?

On the other hand, two fisted fury isn't for everyone. Some prefer to take it slower and steadier, not to waste ammo like it's rice at a wedding...Some people even prefer to hit what they are aiming at.

I want the choice... My nomad is more of a 1 gun at a time kind of guy.... traditional. He prefers big ass revolvers that are always reliable, and shoot through engine blocks.

My solo on the other hand.... he was naturally ambidextrous, reflexes wired like a christmas tree, and all the doohickeys to put the bullets on target you can imagine. He jumps into the room with both mitts full of Death. His guns were his eyes in those situations, and where he looked there was murder.

I want the ability to dual wield... but I want it to always be a choice... so long as I have two handguns... SR3 you could dual wield, but once you did you could never turn it off, this was assholish...

But I am not a voice aloe in the darkness, you guys should speak up too.... so I can shoot you...

 

[thewarsend]

I know it's not necessary all that effective, I don't care, years of Hong Kong Cinema has taught me it's cool... Plus it's symmetrical, how can you not like Symmetry?

We have two arms for a reason, and that reason is to shoot up shit with both hands, two fisted tales of cyberpunk awesome...

Do you really want to be the guy who brings one fist to that party?

On the other hand, two fisted fury isn't for everyone. Some prefer to take it slower and steadier, not to waste ammo like it's rice at a wedding...Some people even prefer to hit what they are aiming at.

I want the choice... My nomad is more of a 1 gun at a time kind of guy.... traditional. He prefers big ass revolvers that are always reliable, and shoot through engine blocks.

My solo on the other hand.... he was naturally ambidextrous, reflexes wired like a christmas tree, and all the doohickeys to put the bullets on target you can imagine. He jumps into the room with both mitts full of Death. His guns were his eyes in those situations, and where he looked there was murder.

I want the ability to dual wield... but I want it to always be a choice... so long as I have two handguns... SR3 you could dual wield, but once you did you could never turn it off, this was assholish...

But I am not a voice aloe in the darkness, you guys should speak up too.... so I can shoot you...

Don't shoot! I'm not your enemy..

I would love to have dual wielding weapons in CP77. But i feel like it should depend on your characters skills. Like with low strength you can only dual wield handguns, a bit more and you can dual wield smg's, and if you are really strong (And i mean lift a car strong) you can even dual wield assault rifles. (Or shotguns)

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I am all for Dual-Wielding. I also agree with Warsend and I would like to see anyone can dual-weild anything up to and including assault rifles. I would also make sure the recoil rules from blackhands were applied along with severe penalties to aiming, accuracy and reloading speed. It should all come down to your strength, (BOD stat.) A full-borg could probably dual weild a pair of Assault Rifles, but if a regular human tried, he should screw up his arms and miss pretty much everything. Oh, and as for dual-weilding pump action shotguns...
View attachment 961
...sure, but don't expect them to be very efficient, as you will have to cock each weapon separately.

 

[Deadbolt_Don]

I could see dual wielding used amongst the crazy cyberpsychos and street punks who have no idea what they're doing. Solos, cops, corporate security and soldiers... probably not.

There's a reason that no one in the real world dual wields in practical situations.

Lara Croft and Agent 47 are characters i can never really take seriously for that and many other reasons.

 

[blank_redge]

I like the idea of dual wielding being limited by your BOD stat. Makes sense that someone scrawnier wouldn't be able to effectively dual wield a pair of Kalashnikov knock-offs. (Though, dual wielding assault rifles in general is getting in to ridiculous areas of overkill. IMO, only a couple steps removed from the minigun.)

Should dual wielding be on Goldeneye status? Should we be able to wield mismatched weapons, and should we have a trigger for each?

 

[gregski]

Dual wielding in Max Payne 3 <3

So I say bring it on.

 

[Sardukhar]

I don't like symmetry, it's not all that cool and it's not at all effective. It's much worse than having one weapon you actually aim. I'm all about taking choices from people that displease me. Which pleases me.

But you already knew I'd come in here and say this.

Also, "Mitts full of Death"? Really? Mitts? Could he not afford gloves?

Also I do hate freedom, so that was tempting...

Edit: obligatory fisting joke.

 

[wisdom000]

I could see dual wielding used amongst the crazy cyberpsychos and street punks who have no idea what they're doing. Solos, cops, corporate security and soldiers... probably not.

In the real world... no... in cyberpunk 2020 where you can smartlink weapons... yeah, oh yeah.... I can definitely see it becoming fairly popular with pro's.

There's a reason that no one in the real world dual wields in practical situations.

Because in the real world you can't jack your weapon directly into your brain, or even your smartshades, and either get an accurate targeting scope or just look out the end of the gun barrel itself...

Alos, its actually not all that impractical, particularly if you have weapons with laser sights attached...

Lara Croft and Agent 47 are characters i can never really take seriously for that and many other reasons.

Really.... those aren't reasons that even come close to mentioning when talking about why I can;t take them seriously

 

[Garrison72]

As long as it brings your accuracy way the fuck down and the second weapon takes up the appropriate inventory space, maybe.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

... Agent 47 are characters i can never really take seriously for that and many other reasons.

Any game that let's me put on hunting garb, roam around with a double barrel shotgun shooting toffs AND drop cans of petrol down a chimney to blow up more toffs is ok in my book.

And, tbf, being able to use mismatched weapon in each hand is fine by me. If anyhting I would say it improves the whole principle. Machine Pistol in one hand and sawn off in the other? Yes please!

And really, the biggest drawback should be accuracy, as well as the obvious potential recoil damage to the shooter. The biggest advantage should be suppression.

Oh, and go for the classic dual weild firing solution, left mouse for left hand, right for right. No 'aiming' or other secondary fire.

 

[Deadbolt_Don]

I never said i didn't enjoy Hitman or Tomb Raider for what they are....

I forgot about smart link though. I guess it would allow for crazy gun antics to occur in Cyberpunk. But again, those who don't have the implant would still be in a world of hurt if they tried to dual wield in a gunfight.

 

[joshko]

Yeah, why not? Duel wielding resides in the realm where realism can give way to cool factor.
I generally don't use it but I like to have the option when I'm feeling a little more destructive. Plus I'll probably try to recreate Neo in one of my later play throughs just for shits and giggles.

Though it should be optional, if they don't make it optional I would much rather not have duel wielding at all.

 

[Sardukhar]

Smartchipping isn't THAT much of an accuracy boost. +1 with the link, +2 more with a cybereye, for +3 total. There are a few more things you can do - low-imp, COT, etc, but it's still not some god-mode for shooters.

And if you can do that, then you are going to want to do it with a single-weapon as well, for even better accuracy. Which you need. FNFF, gleefully reproducing the inaccuracy of shooting, gives a GM loads of penalties to throw at shooters. Which he or she should!

Visibilty in terms of lighting or rain or what have you, movement of shooter and target, cover, footing, wounds, weapon accuracy, range and so on and so on.

I tended to jack the hell out of my guns JUST SO I could..usually...hit my target on the run, while wounded, amidst non-targets and call my shot. Preferably at a good range.

So you -need- a smartgun setup and an accurate weapon and loads of points into skills, just to make sure youget the other guy and he doesn't get you.

Also, as we discussed, all a second weapon does is give you more ammo and whatever the RoF of the other weapon is - it doesn't give you free actions. Still gotta pay the accuracy penalty for those.

Now. If you're talking a multi-limb firing setup using cyberarms and micromissiles or even SMGs for suppression, THAT I like.

EDIT: let me also say that of COURSE I'm not against them being in Cyberpunk 2077. Dual-wielding is in the PnP! I just want appropriate penalties. And to make fun of people who've seen "Hard Boiled" waaay too many times.

 

[d1am0ndback]

I would also like to suggest an ambidextrous shooter. One who doesn't like wielding two guns, but can switch hands for when stalking in corners. But holding the gun with both hands gives greater stability obviously.

Yes?

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I would also like to suggest an ambidextrous shooter. One who doesn't like wielding two guns, but can switch hands for when stalking in corners.

Yes?

I don't know, they mechanic they use for that in APB sucks monkey balls. While I can see the benefits, I really think there would need to be a good mechanic for the hand swap. I guess it would be important as well to declare an 'off-hand' at character creation, so that you can gain a penalty to accuracy in your off hand. Unless someone gets an ambidexterity chip, or they introduce an advantage/disadvantage system.

 

[blank_redge]

I really think there would need to be a good mechanic for the hand swap.

Army of Two has a good mechanic for that, so you can get the most out of cover. A similar mechanic would be beneficial for 2077's hypothetical gun combat.

 

[Sioclya]

Akimboing two guns is always my favorite in video games, especially when the controls actually were akimbo (LMB-left gun, RMB-right gun).

We whould have this option for all guns, but removing ironsights zoom and practically making you devoid of all accuracy, especially when dual wielding something like ARs or (even crazier, and only possible for Borgs) Light Machineguns (or, for full conversions: Miniguns*, if you feel completely crazy and have dug in some feet).

I actually had this crazy idea just a few weeks ago: two pistols, each has half a scope mounted on top (not on the slider of course). When you go akimbo, you can put the two pistols together to get one whole scope in the middle to aim precisely with.

*Miniguns SOUND great. 6000 rounds per minute, great. Your ammo belt is only 4000 rounds long, though. You must *really* like realoading every 45 seconds if you use one of these.

 

[whipblade]

For my two cents: I don't think that two weapons is that effective, and it's MUCH more challenging to properly balance. Looks like I'm in the minority here, though. =P

 

[blank_redge]

I like dual pistols (for the cool John Woo effect) and I can even see dual SMGs. Anything above that, it starts creeping in to the territory of ridiculous / overkill, imo.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

For my two cents: I don't think that two weapons is that effective, and it's MUCH more challenging to properly balance. Looks like I'm in the minority here, though. =P

Actually, I agree with you. It's wasteful and inaccurate. BUt it's damn cool and you basically double your potential firepower. For suppresion, it's awesome.