DUEL (Seltkirk) Calculations - A More In-depth Look

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4RM3D

Ex-moderator
DUEL (Seltkirk) Calculations - A More In-depth Look

Duel is a new mechanic that will be introduced in the Midwinter patch. The ability is basically a death-match between two units. You can select the opposing unit and have first strike. Calculating the value of the duel under different circumstances can actually be quite tricky because it's not a linear progression. That's why I've included a table to show to show the optimal strength of an opponent to get max value. The initial max value you can get from Seltkirk is 17 when the opposing unit is 10~12 strength.

Seltkirk with 7 strength
EnemyFriendly
StrengthValueVictor
177Enemy
168Enemy
159Enemy
1410Enemy
1315Friendly
1217Friendly
1117Friendly
1017Friendly
916Friendly
815Friendly
714Friendly


What if we increase the strength of Seltkirk by 2 (using Royal Decree or Blue Dream), how much different does that make?

Seltkirk with 9 strength
EnemyFriendly
StrengthValueVictor
1712Enemy
1619Friendly
1521Friendly
1421Friendly
1321Friendly
1221Friendly
1120Friendly
1019Friendly
918Friendly
817Friendly
716Friendly


As you can see, 2 strength makes quite a lot of difference. Each strength point counts as double (like with Swordmasters) and every 2 strength points allows an enemy of 3 levels higher to be killed. The max value you can get from Seltkirk+2 is 21 when the opposing unit is 12~15 strength.

One last thing about armor vs strength, strength is worth twice as much as armor in duels.
 
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My 7 str, 3 armor Seltkirk attacks a 17 str target with no armor, taking 7 str, and that units remaining 10 attack and kill Seltkirk. I net +7 str points: +7 from being put on the board, +7 more for the initial attack, and -7 after dying to the counter attack.

My 7 str, 3 armor Seltkirk attacks a 16 str target with no armor, taking 7 str, and that units remaining 9 attack Seltkirk, leaving him at 1 because of the 3 armor. Seltkirk attacks again for 1 point and is then attacked for 1. I net +8 points: +7 from being put on the board, +7 more for the initial attack, -6 for being hit, +1 for the counter attack, and -1 after the deathblow.
 
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I think there's been a slight miscalculation on your "7 STR Seltkirk vs. 13 STR enemy" row, 4RM3D . Try as I might, I cannot get it to sum up to 13. Unless I'm making some really stupid mistake (which is possible considering it's morning) the total value adds up to 15:


Enemy STRSeltkirk STRSeltkirk value
137 + 3 (armor)7
647 + 7 – 3 = 11
2211 + 4 – 2 = 13
0213 + 2 = 15



That aside, your tables are really useful! And so are your example calculations, gigabomb .

Seltkirk definitely seems like a highly viable Gold in light of all this math. And as it happens, the forum has the perfect emote for that.

:yes:
 
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I agree on the miss calculation about 7 vs 13 STR.
Furthermore, are we sure that everyone fights as long as one of them is still alife? From the stream I understood it, as if both had only one hit (at most), but maybe I didn't pay enough attention.
 

4RM3D

Ex-moderator
RidiculousName;n9920811 said:
I think there's been a slight miscalculation on your "7 STR Seltkirk vs. 13 STR enemy" row

Ah, yes, I forgot the last part, to add the final two strength. Thanks for catching that one.
 

4RM3D

Ex-moderator
FG15-ISH7EG;n9920961 said:
Furthermore, are we sure that everyone fights as long as one of them is still alife?

That's how I understood it. Besides, otherwise the card would be far too weak.

 
willow565;n10230182 said:
I dont get it. Why you duel friend and enemy when its obviously better to duel 2 enemies?

Sometimes it can be good to make a big unit of yours to Duel a problematic, weaker opponent unit to instantly kill it.
Similar to how Seltkirk can be used to instakill cards weaker than him.
 
willow565;n10230182 said:
I dont get it. Why you duel friend and enemy when its obviously better to duel 2 enemies?

Seltkirk has to participate in the duel, unlike Iorveth: Meditation.
 
(Returning Player) Question about Duel!

I have just returned to the game since not playing since Decemberish. There are a lot of things that have changed in the game and I have picked them up and starting to get the hang of it. However, an issue I am having is the duel mechanic. The card description states that both players take turns dealing damage equal to their power, however this doesn't seem to be the case. For example, I have come up against Imlerith: Sabbath a fair amount of times and every time he duels,he can deal all of his power whether it be the base 5 or a boosted 11. However, when it comes to my character dealing the damage, they only deal 1 damage, even if they are someone who is double the power.

I am not sure if this is intentional or just a bug but I would imagine since armor negatives one damage, surely the rest of the power should attack the hp after breaking through his 2 armor, yet it never does. I would appreciate it if someone could inform me whether or not this is a bug so that I am informed better.
 
Only tricky part here is that your creature deal damage according rest of it power(which will be decreased with first strike of whom start a duel). He just strike first and this do a trick.
 
So for Imlerith it would go like this, whatever his power number is on his card (boosted, strengthened, whatever) he deals that number to the highest enemy card. After that damage is done to that card, that card then in-turn deals whatever its new power rating is on the card to Imrelith, then Imrelith deals whatever his power number is back, rinse and repeat. Armor is not taken into account on the damage dealt but does absorb damage done. So if you had a 10 power on the board and he played the default Imrelith it would do 5 damage to your card, your card would then do 5 to Im, his 2 armor absorbing part of it so dealing 3 damage to him. He would then do 2 to your card, leaving you at 3, which then kills Im in the last duel.

If it is a card you play that says cause 2 enemies to duel, the first card you select is the one that goes first. Important to remember so you have the biggest impact.

Hope that helps.
 
Ahh. I get it now guys thanks. For some reason I didn't think about the power that your character does back is the new one it has after being hit, and instead presumed it was the base power. Thanks for clearing it up.
 
PS
Basic duels (no armor, attacker/defender on opposite sides) are easy to calculate best point value... the defender/target should be between 1 and 1.5x the strength of the attacker(first strike) to inflict maximum point swing. you can still use this rule if the defender's armor is lower than the starting strength of the attacker, just count it as bonus strength. this results in a point swing of 2x the starting value of a played attacker.

for same side duels (Meditation, Treason) maximum point swings are the highest two consecutive fibonacci numbers, with the lower of the two being the attacker. this will leave 1pt between them. for non-fibonacci numbers, the lower of the two should reduce the higher of the two to ~2/5 the lowers starting value.

for armor it gets a bit more tricky, and I made a duel calculator (which also calculates the simpler ones) and it can be found through the first link in my signature.
 
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