Dynamic factions: Gangs and factions gaining and losing territory and power over the course of the game

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In FO:NV and other games, factions is so great because not only is it its own game mechanic but it is also tied in so closely with the lore, world and story. In CP2077 the emphasis is more on the player as an individual and permanently joining a faction probably won't be a thing. But that doesen't mean faction systems would be out of place.

I think what would be cool would be if gangs and factions are more alive and dynamic. By that, to be specific, I mean:

1: All factions and gangs have control of a starting territory as the game starts
2: The game has neutral territory that the factions and gangs can claim
3: Rival factions and gangs at war, may conquer territory from the other factions, and in some cases, eliminate another faction entirely
4: The progress they make is autonomous. There will be set faction strength + RNG based "rolls" for factions and gangs as they war for territory at set intervals
5: Player agency. You choices and who you help etc. will still be important because you as the player can affect factions directly by helping or opposing them

So let's say a gang called "Omega Squadron" starts in an area of the city. Their signature theme is energy weapons and black market eye implants. Their main rival is "The Hellfire Hellions", their theme is advanced ammunition and vehicles. They will over the course of the game be at war, and may take neutral territory from eachother or even conquer the opposing faction's territories. A roll is made based on the faction strength, their armaments and resources etc. F.eks. one faction has control of an important warehouse, while the other faction has control of some slums. In this case one faction has better equipment, one has more manpower. They will physically be represented ingame at the locations they control with a faction representative and vendors. A randomized roll is given each faction, this is to prevent snowballing and to prevent the system from being a fully determined system.

So here the player comes in. Let's say you want the highest tier eye implants in the game. Which would require total victory for Omega Squadron. You could then manipulate the war by doing more missions for Omega Squadron, aid them in quests etc. This wouldn't lock out the Hellfire Hellion's quests, rather, you can sabotage them and still complete their quests too by lying about a shipment being stolen while handing the shipment over to the other faction. Moral RPG elements taken into account, the way they obtain the eye implants is through kidnapping and experimentation on people. So who you are changes things and can conflict with what you want and how far you are willing to go to get it.


A dynamic faction and gang system would make the game feel more alive and work as a fun game mechanic imo. In one game 2 gangs made peace, in one game the 2 gangs fought it out with no victor. In one game one of these factions destroyed the other. The player can manipulate the outcomes either directly (by force or diplomacy) or indirectly (subterfuge and stealth). There could even be 3-way wars or 1v2 or 2v3 etc. Each faction would have their own theme, leader personalities, morals/ethics, and goals. This would be a automated system with set numbers + RNG rolls to make it interesting, where your actions can shape how the wars or factions gain or lose strength.

The replayability would be immense. One game could have a completely different power hierarchy in the city than another game. Those you help can still lose, leaving you with more enemies. Or you could end up with many allies for when shit goes down. This system could supplement the main story arc. For example: Say you are on a main story mission on the hardest difficulty and there is a really, really tough fight ahead but you helped Omega Squadron. They then provide an attack helicopter for the mission. But it could go even deeper than that. Omega Squadron's attack helicopter has a chance it was attacked in a Hellion raid, because they are still at war at that point. In which case the helicopter will be much weaker. One faction could provide you with a sniper or an attack squad for a main mission. One faction might join the enemy during a mission because you are on bad terms with them, making the story mission harder.

Basically, factions as a game mechanic that can affect main story missions would intertwine the world.

So yeah, this turned into one hell of a wall of text - whops! But if you endured through it all, what are your thoughts?
 
So I loved F:NV, and I think their use of factions worked really well for that game specifically. For Cyberpunk I want something a bit more nuanced where it is less pick between the democratic or fascist factions. I'd rather not specifically pick, you will always be a bit of an outsider, but you can work with multiple factions (though player actions should allow for locking the player out of working with a faction you've screwed over or failed too many times).

I would love for different gangs/corps/etc to have distinct idioms & ideologies which align or compete with each other, so while each group is distinct they aren't all completely incompatible with each other. I don't think every faction should be competing for the same resources, it makes more sense that different factions operate on different scopes so Militech likely doesn't care too much about some random booster gang. I do love the idea that factions change, especially in response to player action.
 
Something like Mafia 3; it'd be pretty cool. However I think the player should be able to start his or her own gang and and take over other gangs' territories and pretty much start their own mob.
 

lelxrv

Forum veteran
It's too convoluted and tying it to the narrative is nearly impossible as far as time and resources go. Too many variables. It can be it's own game.
 
There maybe something similar but tied to the storyline. As in F:NV. So very dynamic, but still there. As dynamic faction system could easily get out of hand and screw things. That's a story driven RPG not a "play your own adventure" sandbox.
However, what I understood from the interviews, the player won't be able to permanently allign with any faction nor block his interactions with other. So, the shifts in Night City's "geopolitics" will probably be story driven.
 
As dynamic faction system could easily get out of hand and screw things. That's a story driven RPG not a "play your own adventure" sandbox.
You could have a dynamic faction system as an overlay for the sandbox portion of the game, without having it interfering with the story part of the game.

For example, if the territory you have to traverse is hostile - as in: taken by a gang that's hostile towards you - then you'd have to find a disguise, stealth through (disabling cameras, taking down guards, using blind spots), etc. in order to reach your destination. And it would certainly be a different experience to just going there if the same area is controlled by people who are neutral or friendly towards you.
 
For example, if the territory you have to traverse is hostile - as in: taken by a gang that's hostile towards you - then you'd have to find a disguise, stealth through (disabling cameras, taking down guards, using blind spots), etc. in order to reach your destination.

You can do that with some parts of the city district, but you can't do that with entire district, not all players want to sneak around for 1-2h just to reach from point A to point B, that is good idea but more for a game like Splinter Cell.
 
According to Vattier (forum manager here): "Freedom is the biggest value for cyberpunks, so they wouldn't permanently join any faction. In the game you will be able to work for various factions, but it won't be possible to join them ... We're not planning to introduce any reputation indicators for factions. Your reputation will be measured by a general Street Cred - reflecting how you're seen by the street. You will be able to increase it through side missions and it will allow you to unlock access to additional content, such as new shops or new missions."

So there will be factions and we can work for some of them (without joining). I'm pretty confident there will be consequences to who you side with, though I'm not confident it would result in changing things like geographical territories for varying factions.
 
For me personally, it's still a shame you cannot formally join (some) factions. That doesn't mean this aspect will ruin the game, but it is something that bugs me as I prefer something "whole", or something very close to this. So I hope in-game and how things are portrayed or can be chosen, it will blend in more or less to have the same outcome for the desired faction, so you don't always feel like a stranger. Maybe mods can "fix" (or add, rather) this in the long run.

Regardless of joinable factions:

Yes, I'd like to see something more dynamic in terms of factions, and them occasionally (at least) contesting territory. To perhaps make it more "optional" or to give it less of an influence on the main narrative if this is not desired by the story, then have such contestable areas that do not factor into the main narrative that much.
 
in Cyberpunk 2020 the advice they give too the game master too treat your corporations as a character. and the make up of that character is made up of people with differing motivations and desires and thus makes a unique and evolving beast if you will. the motivations of the top Ceo may be different from the head directors of there various departments.

and I think this is the best way too think of any Corporation , Gang or Faction. give each corporation a head arms hands legs and feet. the only differance being is that the each appendage has a mind of its own and may act with out the knowledge of the rest of the body. head may not know what the hand is doing and vice or versa. the heads of these departments should have there own unique identies thus adding too the rich tapestry of the corporation or the body politic

and thats just the will or the spirit of the corporation. when you look at a corporation. one should also realize that their buildings and assets. also become part of the corporations character.
 
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You can do that with some parts of the city district, but you can't do that with entire district, not all players want to sneak around for 1-2h just to reach from point A to point B, that is good idea but more for a game like Splinter Cell.
It doesn't have to be like that.

Unless you are a wanted person (somebody who is actively being hunted), you should be able to get around fine-ish. As long as you don't bump into hostile NPCs or produce any suspicius actvity that needs to be checked out by the authorities (criminal or otherwise).

It's for these situations, when you actually encounter the hostiles, that you should have different options to deal with them. And there should be a whole variety of dealing with that.
 
Like i said not bad idea. it have good potential, but it would fit more for double agent who try to bring down two gangs, something like Splinter Cell Double Agent.

Also V is mercenary she/he work for highest bidder, so today you going to work for gang A tomorrow you will work for gang B.
 
Would be cool as long as it is significant, and directly effected by/has an effect on the central narrative. I don't need it to be flip-flopping back and forth with no meaning, or giving me FO4-esque "x settlment is under attack" messages.
 
That would make the game interactive but it also makes the game harder when certain main storyline characters are part of certain factions/gangs.
 
It's a great idea that can easily be done incorrectly, so I'm on the fence about it. In theory, the perfect game would tie feuding factions into the side quest narratives and have the world behave/populate itself based on your specific allegiances. That'd be awesome. On the other hand, it could become tedious busywork running around to defeat the same generic mobs, only to change the color of something on a map if there's no significant reward for the world/player.

Overall I hope to see something like this if it can be done well. It'd be great for CDPR to approach fans about the city's dynamic nature at some point and maybe tell us what's feasible on their end to manage expectations.
 
It's a great idea that can easily be done incorrectly, so I'm on the fence about it. In theory, the perfect game would tie feuding factions into the side quest narratives and have the world behave/populate itself based on your specific allegiances. That'd be awesome. On the other hand, it could become tedious busywork running around to defeat the same generic mobs, only to change the color of something on a map if there's no significant reward for the world/player.

Overall I hope to see something like this if it can be done well. It'd be great for CDPR to approach fans about the city's dynamic nature at some point and maybe tell us what's feasible on their end to manage expectations.

yea that's true its hardly game play when you ask the player too grind out in a test pattern by defeating mobs of generic inconsequential bad guys that don't mean anything.
 
Maybe elements of this could be introduced in a later phase, after release, or perhaps if modding support is good it could be a community effort in the shape of a mod.
 
That's what I am expecting for Cyberpunk 2077!
I love watching NPC fight against each other. This will be so much fun even after finishing all of the quests. :LOL:
 
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