E3 2019 & post-E3 2019 - Media News & Previews

[kofeiiniturpa]

Also, on the note of giant hammers/2H weapons -- this is Cyberpunk 2077. These sorts of weapons are no more or less practical than katanas, whips, etc. that we see in 2020, because people have beefed up arms that can handle them like they're toys.

I don't buy that. Physics and common sense still work normally.

Nobody goes near someone who waves a 1 meter sledge like it was a toy. They shoot him. And even in close quarters, the reach and handleability of those weapons is too long and cumbersome to be of any practical use against someone with a simple combat knife.

Katanas and whips can be very fast and practical in close quarters. (Though whips less so.)

I don't think it's a good idea to have that kind weaponry here.

 

[gregski]

Their lore and world building is simply on another level. I wouldn't have even thought of something like this.

I found the other styles in this tweet, no descriptions though as they are posters from E3 booth.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1139325701092306944

 

[Rawls]

I like them, they do their job extremely well, but I always fear that they're vital to play the game (like levels or DMG numbers: you can disable tham from HUD, but you can't play properly if the game is based on them). The

I played TW3 without the minimap. I would argue that the game is much better without it (except for horse racing, which is basically impossible without the map). You should try it!

@gregski those evoke specific districts of the game to my eye. Pacifica, Watson, City Center, Westbrook.

 

[gregski]

@gregski those evoke specific districts of the game to my eye. Pacifica, Watson, City Center, Westbrook.

Yep, they look like they could be tied to the districts and social groups in the game.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

I played TW3 without the minimap. I would argue that the game is much better without it (except for horse racing, which is basically impossible without the map). You should try it!

I tried, but if they tell me "go to novigrad, main square" or to rosemary and thyme and I'm in velen, how am I supposed to get there?

I played RDR2 without the minimap and it was easier (also sign posts are in english, so you can use them), in particular during some missions NPC helped you giving directions, but sometimes it was impossible. I've heard AC odyssey does a very good job with some kind "immersive mode" (can't remember the name), but I'm not playing that after going through (and HATING) AC origins and its stupid drone eagle.

 

[Rawls]

I tried, but if they tell me "go to novigrad, main square" or to rosemary and thyme and I'm in velen, how am I supposed to get there?

You still have a map in the inventory with dots on it for reference. It's just more like Geralt pulling out a map when he needs it, and actually getting to experience the world as it is around him - rather than following a line on a map. After 10-20 hours in game, you actually learn the lay of the land. Nowadays when I play, I can get from Nilfgaard Army Camp to Skellig tower outta nowheres (via Novigrad because fast travel is for quitters) without consulting a map.

The point is, a good game shouldn't force any part of the HUD on you too much.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

You still have a map in the inventory with dots on it for reference. It's just more like Geralt pulling out a map when he needs it, and actually getting to experience the world as it is around him - rather than following a line on a map. After 10-20 hours in game, you actually learn the lay of the land. Nowadays when I play, I can get from Nilfgaard Army Camp to Skellig tower outta nowheres (via Novigrad because fast travel is for quitters) without consulting a map.

The point is, a good game shouldn't force any part of the HUD on you too much.

yeah, same as I did with RDR2, then, but as I said there it was easier (don't know if you've played it). Have you managed to play TW3 without levels as well? DMG numbers are not a problem (if you know the level), but no levels means you can find yourself dead with 1 hit fighting a random group of bandits (who are levels higher than you).
Btw, just to add a little layer, I love when HUD is very small and included in-game (IE ammo count in prey)

But I also think that one of the few games were HUD can be immersive is exactly cyberpunk, because, you know, cyberware.

 

[Rawls]

Have you managed to play TW3 without levels as well? DMG numbers are not a problem (if you know the level), but no levels means you can find yourself dead with 1 hit fighting a random group of bandits (who are levels higher than you).

I've tried, but after a few hours I turned them back on. Also, if anywhere, cyberpunk would be the world where you have an AI installed in your head that gives a numerical representation to how dangerous a person is likely to be.

EDIT: The most common alternatives would have to be no levels at all, which still could lead to running into really dangerous people and not knowing it until too late, or level scaling (which IMO is the bane of good game design). Personally, I like the idea of no levels at all in theory ... but I think it practice it would feel a lot like playing a game with levels with the HUD turned off. You never know what your getting into until it's too late. Which would be realistic and interesting, but also frustrating most likely after a few hours.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

Read here
Senior animation programmer and animation programmer.

More info on the website:

-gameplay animator warsaw for CP2077
-gameplay animator cracow for CP2077
-animation producer cracow for CP2077
-animation programmer warsaw for CP2077
-senior animation programmer warsaw for CP2077

I know that they are hiring, but there is no confirmation that they're hiring specifically to fix anything or do something they consider they can't do at the moment.

The way it was implied before it seemed like CDPR got into emergency mode or whatever, that's what I'm almost sure isn't quite like that.

They always have job offers as a standard to grow teams or search for replacements for when people leave after release, that's normal.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Spoiler: Huge OT, as always. Totally useless, I might add

Also, if anywhere, cyberpunk would be the world where you have an AI installed in your head that gives a numerical representation to how dangerous a person is likely to be.

whoa there, that escalated quickly you know levels 99.9% mean bullet sponges, so... nope.

The most common alternatives would have to be no levels at all, which still could lead to running into really dangerous people and not knowing it until too late, or level scaling (which IMO is the bane of good game design).

Well, if they tell you that max-tac, trauma team, full borg conversions and big robots are very dangerous, you know it and you don't try to fight them (but you can try, if you're very good you can do it since DMG are equal for both, they just have better "abilities/cyberware" and more advanced gear) 'till end game. A good game designer would make you face them gradually:
-in an early mission, first time you meet trauma team, you are forced to run away (jackie screams "jaina, trauma team is here! just run for your life!" if you don't you die),
-mid-game you start fighting a couple of them in another mission (you need to escape from a building during a swat/max-tac incursion and "the boss" before the exit is a couple of them, so you test their power in a controlled setting)
-eng-game: it's all max-tac and arasaka ninjas
We've got millions of examples in videogames where enemies are introduced this way, first one that comes to my mind (since is the most recent) is sekiro and these sons of bitches:

No levels, but trust me, you know a strong enemy when you meet one. You "just" need a good game designer who knows how to place enemies.
EDIT: demo showed how scanner can give you info about how dangerous an NPC is, that could subsitute levels with colours or word:
View attachment 11003845
So you don't end up fighting someone too strong /EDIT

An acceptable compromise for levels IMHO, is standard levels for enemy type: ALL scavengers (first demo) are level 2, ALL vodoo boys are all level 18 and ALL max tac officers are level 36 (bosses excluded, ofc). Levels do not reflect their DMG output or HPs (if not to minimum extent, an advanced assault rifle is better than a 9mm, and skinweave gives more defense or HP than a t-shirt), but their abilities:
-scavengers are normal guys with guns and that's it (level 2)
-vodoo boys have good cyberware for their limbs (unhuman strenght and speed) (level 18)
-trauma team has very good gear (level 25)
-max tac has both cyberware and gear (x-ray vision, smoke bombs, super strenght and speed, double jumps) (level 36)

You don't level up bullets' DMG or HP: a bullet deals 25HP in the body and 100 in the head, always, enemies' (and yours) defenses change thanks to gear and cyberware.
A scavenger dies with 1 headshot (100HP) from a 9mm gun (given gear has no levels), a vodoo boy as well, 2 if has skinweave (200HP), trauma team wear an helmet, so more headshots are needed, let's say 3 (300HP), max tac has everything, so can be bullet sponge for a 9mm, but all of them remain consistent throughout the game.
So you don't meet a level 2 scavenger and at end-game a level 30 scavenger which looks the same, but is stronger than a level 15 max-tac and weaker than level 40 max-tac. This is the problem with levels being immersion breaking. Not levels per se.

And now I think you'll move these posts somewhere else.

I know that they are hiring, but there is no confirmation that they're hiring specifically to fix anything or do something they consider they can't do at the moment.

they're hiring "animators" for cyberpunk as stated in the website, not for other games. CP is coming in 10 months and the press states animations are a problem, I drew my conclusions, you drew yours.

 

[Rawls]

whoa there

I like your ideas. However, they would be super hard to implement in an open world game. With linear level design they would work. But the designers can't know where the player will go next in an open world to scale things like that. Unless they block off entire zones of the city until later in the game. Which IMO would be lame.

 

[Snowflakez]

Jason Schreier (yes, that guy) interviewed Marcin Iwinski on Splitscreen again. Some interesting answers to some tough questions.

https://kotaku.com/cd-projekt-red-boss-again-promises-that-cyberpunk-devs-1835518344

Poor Iwinski.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

they're hiring "animators" for cyberpunk as stated in the website, not for other games. CP is coming in 10 months and the press states animations are a problem, I drew my conclusions, you drew yours.

Sure I understand. Since game dev doesn't work in such an arbitrary way, it's pretty much 100% sure the hiring doesn't have anything to do with any feedback from E3 2019.

I totally believe the animations your friend saw must've been terrible though, looking at the gameplay trailer myself, when the boss gets hit by the nanowire, it already looks kinda awkward there so...

 

[Snowflakez]

Sure I understand. Since game dev doesn't work in such an arbitrary way, it's pretty much 100% sure the hiring doesn't have anything to do with any feedback from E3 2019.

I totally believe the animations your friend saw must've been terrible though, looking at the gameplay trailer myself, when the boss gets hit by the nanowire, it already looks kinda awkward there so...

Yeah... People have kinda just been pushing that to the side, but when she gets smacked with it, she roughly jerks from side to side with no smooth transition.

 

[Sardukhar]

Monowire.

It's called a monofilament whip in 2020 or a monowhip/monowire for short.

The whip itself is only a few molecules thick, can cut through nearly anything.

From Burning Chrome, by William Gibson.

 

[lelxrv]

I'm probably not catching up to times, but wow if this is bad animation...

 

[Snowflakez]

I'm probably not catching up to times, but wow if this is bad animation...

Not bad. Poorer than expected given CDPR's track record, massive (comparatively speaking) team, and higher budget.

I look forward to hearing and seeing more about the combat at Gamescom or Pax.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Spoiler: Even more useless stuff

I like your ideas. However, they would be super hard to implement in an open world game. With linear level design they would work. But the designers can't know where the player will go next in an open world to scale things like that. Unless they block off entire zones of the city until later in the game. Which IMO would be lame.

But level gating areas has exactly the same problem, then. It's not really open world if you can't go in heywood unless you match the area's level. You can't travel to skellige before level 16 in TW3.

With the system I described, which is exactly the same as sekiro (don't know if you've played it), the world is almost completely open exactly because it has no levels and you can do different areas in the order you prefer. But sekiro doesn't have side quests (from software's side quests are not real side quests), so a good way to solve it is looking at RDR2: in RDR2 side quests appear only when it makes sense for the plot, briefly: there's an alteranation between moments when you are forced to do the main quest and moments when you can do side quests. Game pacing and rhytm are so perfect that you never think "oh my god, I'm in a hurry to find Ciri, but first lemme play some gwent".
Now, given TW3, we can assume CP2077 will have a similar structure and won't be skyrim-like. It's narrative-driven, CDPR said it several times. So devs will know exactly were we'll be and which skills we'll have during the main quest. Side quests (and vendors) will be unlocked gradually thanks to street creds (which are a brilliant idea, limped by classic levels, though).
What happens in my vision: you start the game-> tutorial-> open-world, night city is yours to explore. Jackie (or any NPC) tells you that you need to get more famous in order to catch the major league's attention. You do that completing some missions (main quest) but you can also do side quests to gain more E$ (= gear and cyberware). You're not in a hurry, it's coherent with the narrative. You have a limited number of side quests and are pretty easy (you don't have end-game quests from the beginning like in TW3 which made you wait 60 hours between accepting and completing them), being early game, so you don't end up being overpower even if you do all the side quests: you buy a better assault rifle, a better car, stuff like that. You enjoy role-playing and CDPR's top notch narrative (not that in TW3 that level gated gear had any sense to exist, since you could find better stuff every time you levelled up, which happened 34 times during each playthough). During this mission, you meet "low levels" enemies (scavengers and alike), if you don't try to get into a police station, you won't have any trouble with max tac and what not. BUT, if you manage to get into a police station and steal some corpo rifle, that's great! Risk and reward! And it's not overpower, because it's not level-gated so as I described in my previous post, a bullet from it is slightly more powerful than a 9mm bullets, but not like lvl 10 bullet vs lvl 35 bullet. You get your reward but you don't break the game.
You meet dexter de shawn, kill maelstromers, jackie dies, you want to find dexter for revenge so you need to get even more famous to get in contact with a big fixer (main quest): open world again and new (harder) side quests you can accept, buy better gear and cyberware. The cycle starts again.

I look forward to hearing and seeing more about the combat at Gamescom or Pax.

We'll see it at pax west: aug 31st-Sep 2nd

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138702041625309184

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

The monowire hit reaction isn't bad, what I would call it is inappropriate, or out of place. The reaction is fine, but the whole body moving so much while being hit with something with so little mass and that's flexible is what's weird.

My suspiscion is that its just a generic melee hit animation, but the wire is an exceptional weapon in that it's supposed to cause cutting and/or burning damage with no physical brute force.

 

[Sneky]

Not bad. Poorer than expected given CDPR's track record, massive (comparatively speaking) team, and higher budget.

I look forward to hearing and seeing more about the combat at Gamescom or Pax.

Well, its not like Witcher 3 gameplay animations were SUPERB, and gameplay animators in Cyberpunk 2077 have much more to animate, its not even comporable im talking strictly about gameplay stuff, and much more work for animation programmers also. The gameplay animations in 2018 looked mostly fine for me, for me more important is responsiveness of them than the visuals anyway, but without hand on the game i cant judge how responsive they are, hopefully they will focus more on that than the visuals.