E3 Discussion Thread

[Damariel]

Marcin Iwinski, co-founder of CDP.

The Big Papa

In other words... best CEO ever.

 

[sidspyker]

Spoiler

Wait a minute...it was probably mentioned already, but what's the point of the whole 'witcher senses' thing if you have a quest marker on the map?

Ahem.
Well firstly it seems the MAIN point of the Witcher senses is tracking, atleast that's what I feel. Now if you're referring to this:

Then that's not leading you to the quest, no. It's just highlighting things you can interact with in the environment like the medallion did in TW2 when you pressed Z.

 

[gedierond]

If the Witcher Sense is just going to highlight interactable objects just as the medallion did in TW2, I don´t what all the fuss is about, really. Better than having to jump all around trying to find a hard-to-see ledge you can climb on.

 

[TheWildFish]

Wait so now I'm under the impression that climbing is limited like it was in The Witcher 2? Can you only climb specific ledges that they have decided you can climb? I hope this is not the case and that we can climb wherever we want as long as we can reach it.

 

[schinderhannes.999]

I can't emphasize strongly enough how much I appreciate you guys taking the time and bother to reply. Thanks. Also, Kudos, the open world is looking smashing!

On topic, I was under the impression the WItcher Senses were a manifestation of Geralt's heightened visual and auditory acuity, in which case there would be no reason for the ledge to be highlighted. Navigation is one of the inherent challenges the player faces in Open World games and thus it is also the source of great satisfaction. Take away the challenge and you'll take away the satisfaction.

Let the player stare at the screen for a minute or so, if need be. Trust the player. He will figure it out.

Agreed. Very much.

Highlighting interaction points severely thins the exploration and takes away much of the satisfaction in finding something.

Coincidentally, I had a chat with a friend recently about TW1. She was in chapter 2, and was having a hard time figuring out what to do. That's actually something I liked about it. I remember opening the journal, reading the quests, and tried to figure out how to progress with the investigation. I loved it, because at some point it wasn't as simple as "Go to X, talk to Y, hf gg." It wasn't so clear, and it made you actually think. How many games made me consider my next course of action like that?

I know this isn't identical. Environments and people to talk to are different. Still, the principle is the same - the game doesn't hold your hands. Or, at least, the previous ones didn't. It treated you like an adult. I mean no offense, and I realize the intentions are good (preventing frustration of being stuck), but I'd prefer the game to challenge me in exploration as well as combat.

So far I wrote about the satisfaction.There's also an aspect of incentive. When the primary interaction points are highlighted, I have less reason to explore the area around that ledge. Sure, maybe there's the possibility of finding a chest and some good loot, but it immediately narrows down my expectations. I know that in this area, there is just one ledge. So when I explore for the potential epic sword in hiding, I do so with a reduced sense of mystery, since I know that I won't find another ledge (otherwise I would've noticed it highlighted). It makes an Open World a bit more Closed.

Another thing that probably could be made triggerable via a gameplay option or something.

Check 'Limited Witcher Senses' (or something along those lines) and Geralt will only get tracks, blood, noises and all the hunt-related stuff highlighted but not interaction points such as ledges to grapple on.

 

[dragonbird]

Wait so now I'm under the impression that climbing is limited like it was in The Witcher 2? Can you only climb specific ledges that they have decided you can climb? I hope this is not the case and that we can climb wherever we want as long as we can reach it.

No. They've explicitly said several times, including during the sessions this week, that it will NOT be limited like TW2. You can climb wherever you want (as long as it would be physically possible to climb there)

 

[ReptilePZ]

Wait so now I'm under the impression that climbing is limited like it was in The Witcher 2? Can you only climb specific ledges that they have decided you can climb? I hope this is not the case and that we can climb wherever we want as long as we can reach it.

From my observations, it's the same as in TW2, only less clunky. There's a point in the gamespot demo where we see Geralt running at a cliff because he wasn't at quite the right spot to interact with the ledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LMEi5i5wPo&t=61

 

[Vigilance.492]

From my observations, it's the same as in TW2, only less clunky. There's a point in the gamespot demo where we see Geralt running at a cliff because he wasn't at quite the right spot to interact with the ledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LMEi5i5wPo&t=61

Nah he wasn't jumping. I'm sure if he'd jumped at any point along that cliff face he would have jumped up. He was just running straight into the cliff for a couple seconds.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Nah he wasn't jumping. I'm sure if he'd jumped at any point along that cliff face he would have jumped up. He was just running straight into the cliff for a couple seconds.

Yeah, it's possbile. I just don't think climbing a ledge's triggered by jumping but rather by running at it and pressing the 'Interact' key.

 

[Vigilance.492]

Yeah, it's possbile. I just don't think climbing a ledge's triggered by jumping but rather by running at it and pressing the 'Interact' key.

Isn't that how it works in most games? Like in GTA5 on PS3, Square is your jump key. If you run up against a wall you're not going to press another button to 'interact' with it or it won't auto jump up, you tap the Square and then you jump up. Have I missed the point entirely or something sorry?

 

[Kinley]

Isn't that how it works in most games? Like in GTA5 on PS3, Square is your jump key. If you run up against a wall you're not going to press another button to 'interact' with it or it won't auto jump up, you tap the Square and then you jump up. Have I missed the point entirely or something sorry?

He compared it to TW2 where you had to press a button to interact with a ledge. Now it seems to be contextual.

 

[dragonbird]

I remember them specifically mentioning it this week with regards to fences, that you could just jump over, not find a gate. The understanding that I have is that if, in real life, you could jump or climb, then you would in the game. So he's probably not going to be able to scale 20ft cliffs, but he doesn't need to find a specific action point.

 

[lord_blex]

Ahem.
Well firstly it seems the MAIN point of the Witcher senses is tracking, atleast that's what I feel. Now if you're referring to this:

Spoiler

there is also the part where you have to find johnny. all you have to do there is just following the questmarker, no reason to follow the footprints.

 

[Goran.hr]

In the gameplay video, when he chases Griffin, it's demonstrated that Geralt can jump freely.

 

[sidspyker]

Yeah I remember that too but I think places that are high up, not exactly within Geralt's reach, or something he can jump to are probably contextual.

In the gameplay video, when he chases Griffin, it's demonstrated that Geralt can jump freely.

Jumping != Climbing.

 

[Vigilance.492]

Well of course it's going to be contextual. I assume the big difference between TW2 and now is that if you wanted to, you could turn Geralt around and just jump straight off that cliff in any direction. Obviously there's not going to be a invisible wall blocking you and then you find the interact point & jump down safely.

However when it comes to ledges and little cliffs like that, it's still always going to have to be contextual.

Edit: It's how it works in all Rockstar games and I really don't know of anyone with better Tech then them. I'm sure if the Fence or whatever is low enough, Geralt can just straight up vault over it, but if it starts to get a teeny bit too high, the "climb" animation will take over and he'll have to clamber his way up/over.

 

[Goran.hr]

Jumping != Climbing.

I agree. Climbing has to be contextual, but he can jump freely.

 

[dragonbird]

Yup, no invisible walls. But there will still probably be visible walls.

 

[ReptilePZ]

Well of course it's going to be contextual. I assume the big difference between TW2 and now is that if you wanted to, you could turn Geralt around and just jump straight off that cliff in any direction. Obviously there's not going to be a invisible wall blocking you and then you find the interact point & jump down safely.

However when it comes to ledges and little cliffs like that, it's still always going to have to be contextual.

Edit: It's how it works in all Rockstar games and I really don't know of anyone with better Tech then them. I'm sure if the Fence or whatever is low enough, Geralt can just straight up vault over it, but if it starts to get a teeny bit too high, the "climb" animation will take over and he'll have to clamber his way up/over.

I imagine the person asking the question is thinking about a system similar to AC. He was also talking specifically about climbing wherever we want, not jumping over fences or going to a specific interaction point (which is what the system in TW3 looks like to me.)

 

[Villentretanmerth]

Agreed. Very much.

Highlighting interaction points severely thins the exploration and takes away much of the satisfaction in finding something.

Coincidentally, I had a chat with a friend recently about TW1. She was in chapter 2, and was having a hard time figuring out what to do. That's actually something I liked about it. I remember opening the journal, reading the quests, and tried to figure out how to progress with the investigation. I loved it, because at some point it wasn't as simple as "Go to X, talk to Y, hf gg." It wasn't so clear, and it made you actually think. How many games made me consider my next course of action like that?

I know this isn't identical. Environments and people to talk to are different. Still, the principle is the same - the game doesn't hold your hands. Or, at least, the previous ones didn't. It treated you like an adult. I mean no offense, and I realize the intentions are good (preventing frustration of being stuck), but I'd prefer the game to challenge me in exploration as well as combat.

So far I wrote about the satisfaction.There's also an aspect of incentive. When the primary interaction points are highlighted, I have less reason to explore the area around that ledge. Sure, maybe there's the possibility of finding a chest and some good loot, but it immediately narrows down my expectations. I know that in this area, there is just one ledge. So when I explore for the potential epic sword in hiding, I do so with a reduced sense of mystery, since I know that I won't find another ledge (otherwise I would've noticed it highlighted). It makes an Open World a bit more Closed.

You know, I think I actually agree with this. I feel more accomplished and get more satisfaction if I were to discover something without it being highlighted. At the same time though, with such a big open world, CDPR is probably worried that some hidden locations won't ever be discovered by many players. So I can see it from both points of view.

Maybe the best thing is a compromise between the two: things like ledges are highlighted, but very subtly. So you would have to be pretty close to the ledge for it to highlight, and even then it would only glow red slightly. What do you think?

Anyway, I trust CDPR to know what's best.