Elden ring question

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So just started playing Elden ring and im not a controller player, so mouse and keyboard. And from the moment you start the game you can see that it weren't designed for it. You can play it, but its bad... really bad to be honest, to the point where you would think that these people have no clue about how games work on PC. Its more or less the usual issues with all these ports, which is that all the information you get refer to wrong hotkeys because it tells you what to press on the controller rather than the keyboard. And even on the keyboard, pretty much all the keys besides WSAD are not where you expect them or are simply not there.

Like you can't open your inventory press I or B, you have to press ESC and then open it, you have to use arrow keys by default, while still using the WSAD and mouse, who on Earth that have ever played on PC, would think that is a good idea? The map is not on M as you would expect and the list goes on, but also you can't remap a lot of these keys either in the settings.

What is the idea behind this, because I could understand it, if it were a little studio with limited resources, that they might cut corners in regards to this, but clearly a lot of effort went into Elden ring, so I don't get why not just make a good port and im not even talking about a new UI, but simply to let PC users remap more keys. That you don't have to right click and press "back" to go back etc. It seems like a very small task in the grand scheme of the game.

Is it really such a huge task to make a PC port or is it simply laziness that they don't do this, does anyone know if there actually is a good reason for this?
 
It annoyed me in Dark Souls 1 when I started, but you actually adapt really quickly. I have played every Dark Souls game, and Sekiro, and Elden Ring with mouse and Keyboard and I have never had any problems. It does take a bit of mapping of your keyboard to make it comfortable and easy, but when you find a setup that works for you then you will mostly forget about it and automatically hit the correct keys.
 
I assume it is an intentional decision to make both controller and keyboard the same. They can't go 'hey controller players, you know how you have to go to the menu, then use the d-pad keys to navigate to inventory and after all that enter it? Well, keyboard players just press I:)'
...I mean I kinda see fromSoftware doing something like that, as the whole UI seems to be designed with maximum FU to the players, but maybe even for them that is a bit too far.
...tho it is surprising to hear about the map not being on M...
 
It annoyed me in Dark Souls 1 when I started, but you actually adapt really quickly. I have played every Dark Souls game, and Sekiro, and Elden Ring with mouse and Keyboard and I have never had any problems. It does take a bit of mapping of your keyboard to make it comfortable and easy, but when you find a setup that works for you then you will mostly forget about it and automatically hit the correct keys.
You will adapt to it, but it is really bad.

Like having to scroll through your potions and stuff like that, when you have all the number keys there not being used for anything, why not let you assign weapon sets to them or skills, rather than having to scroll through them like an idiot in the middle of the fight. If you have to exit or navigate a menu, you either have to press E, Q, escape or right click to then select "back" from a menu and it seems pretty much completely random what you have to do.

You have to place markers on the map you can't simply place them at the mouse cursor as you would expect, no you have to move the map cursor using the keys to where you want the marker and then go through the whole right click to place it and its even worse when you have to remove them.

The Pouch equally as with everything else, is not bound to hotkeys and from what I can see its not possible either, so you have to hold down E and then press the arrow keys. Which is perfect when you use a mouse.

I really don't think there is any excuse for this, sure you can get by but I honestly think it is one of the worse or most lazy ports I have seen from a game of this size.

If someone not used to using a controller asked me if I would recommend the game, that alone would be enough for me to tell them to not bother. You are fighting the controls more than the game in my experience, which is a shame because clearly the game have a lot of potential.

I assume it is an intentional decision to make both controller and keyboard the same. They can't go 'hey controller players, you know how you have to go to the menu, then use the d-pad keys to navigate to inventory and after all that enter it? Well, keyboard players just press I:)'
...I mean I kinda see fromSoftware doing something like that, as the whole UI seems to be designed with maximum FU to the players, but maybe even for them that is a bit too far.
...tho it is surprising to hear about the map not being on M...
I don't know how the game plays on a controller, but I would assume that those that use one, will think they are fine, because clearly this is where the effort have been made.

And the map not being on M is the least issue. It is absolutely horrible to be honest. The fact that you can't even close the map using the same key as you opened it with, you instead have to use escape. Being used to PC and opening and closing things on the same button. This doesn't work here, if you press open map button in Elden ring after you have opened the map, it opens a freaking new menu. Which you can't close with escape or the map button!! So to close that you now have to right click to open yet another menu where you can select "back" which will close the first menu, and then you can press escape to close the map.

And honestly the freaking whole UI is like that. You have to hold down, scroll and use so many different buttons to achieve pretty much something that could be done with single clicks on a keyboard under normal circumstances, that it is mindblowing.

Should I give the PC version of this game a score, I would probably give it 3/10 based on the port alone.
 
Well, @Mobster100 I guess 'welcome to Elden ring'. It's a strange love/hate relationship, that somehow convinces you that it is great:)
My problem is not that I can't see where they are going with it and I agree, there are elements in it that are very cool. Which is also why I would give the PC version 3 / 10.

But a game's lack of control shouldn't ruin the experience in my opinion and when I play it, that is truly what my focus is on, fighting the controls and being frustrated at how bad they are. And its a shame, because the world, monsters etc. seems very interesting and you want to go explore. I like the difficulty, the lock on system is really bad as well and as with the rest of the game, stinks of console. :)

And as I said in the first post, Im not a console player and I don't like controllers at all. But I think this type of 3rd person combat in regards to PC have been done a lot better than in Elden ring. Mass effect worked very well I think. TW3 much better as well, mount and blade 2 works nice as well. In Elden ring, you often find yourself getting stuck on the enemies when lock on is active, which makes it very annoying when switching between "free combat" and then using abilities. So you constantly have to switch between lock on and not.
 
I play with keyboard and mouse and i had no problems with controls. Yes, the key mapping is unusual, but i got used to it fast. The only think i had a problem with was pulling off normal Transient moonlight instead of heavy.
 
It's simply that the game was specifically designed for gamepads. I'm not a fan of gamepads...but they've grown on me over time. My relationship with them is now mixed. If I have the option, I'll always choose M+K. However, in some situations, like Elden Ring, M+K is available, but not really an option. Play with a decent gamepad for a few days, and certain things will start to become really apparent:

1.) Analog control of both the camera and the character's movement. This is big.

2.) An individual finger is basically resting on every, single combat command you can imagine, and there's no wonky stuff like holding Shift to perform a strong attack. Different button for every attack.

3.) Switching items/spells can be more annoying, but it's not actually an issue. Rationale: if you're in a situation in the game where you needed to switch to a specific item or spell right away -- you were dead anyway.
  • (Plus, something I stumbled on only after ~100 hrs: if using a d-pad to cycle items and spells...you can simply hold d-pad up / d-pad down to instantly jump to the item/spell in the first slot. Makes navigating the lists much easier.)

4.) Response is less "twitchy". Clearly, the camera in particular seems to want a continuous, analog input to remain smooth. No issues playing with the gamepad, but using a pretty expensive gaming mouse, the input was choppy and imprecise by comparison.

So, while I'd love a game like this to be specifically designed for M+K, I'd argue they're simply not. It's definitely possible, but give yourself a little time to get used to a gamepad, and it's a world of improvement. (I also use gamepads for Kingdoms of Amalur, Dragon's Dogma, and TW3. I use both M+K and a gamepad for things like GTA, Wildlands, or Cyberpunk: accurate control on foot and smooth control of vehicles.)
 
It is..clunky with keyboard+mouse :mad: although, just wanna blame something because I'm so bad at it. :LOL: am actually gonna play it w/ controller next, I think it'll be much smoother, especially if you wanna use horse and have a potion at the same time without the need to let go of the steering wheel (mouse).
 
You can change the input notifications to keyboard instead of controller. I bind my pouch items to the 4th button on my mouse, works well. But yeah... definitely not designed for mouse and keyboard. I refuse to use a controller, ever. So it is a matter of just getting used to it.
 
It's simply that the game was specifically designed for gamepads.

I am not sure if that is true. I think that was just the UI fromSoftware decided to use. It is not like they couldn't make X+d-pad up(for example) to directly open the inventory. They are just being nice and give us players the experience of scrambling to open the menu, close the half of the options window so we can try and dodge the boss while scrolling to the (hopefully) right item:)
 
I am not sure if that is true.
I would argue that it's most certainly true. This is a studio that has developed games for consoles since PS1 with the Armored Core series. Their games are made for controllers.
It is not like they couldn't make X+d-pad up(for example) to directly open the inventory. They are just being nice and give us players the experience of scrambling to open the menu, close the half of the options window so we can try and dodge the boss while scrolling to the (hopefully) right item:)

That's understandable, but there's a distinction to keep in mind. FromSoftware (a Japanese studio) is operating under the Bandai Namco (a Japanese publisher) umbrella. Studios in the region often operate on considerably stricter budgets than elsewhere (there are a great number of moments where this becomes apparent in Elden Ring) - meaning they usually can't explore options beyond making sure the game works even if they want to. "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Hopefully they'll be granted more resources, and time, to acquire more skilled workers given how much success and praise Elden Ring has received. I get how you feel though; it was in development six years so you would figure they could create more options for the controller, might be an engine constraint that hasn't been addressed - still the same engine from the DS series if I'm not mistaken.
 
Personally, I don't really understand the crazy hype for this game... ok, that's good, we're free to wander around, explore... we fight a bit on bosses that end up falling... and then... .? Graphically it's nothing exceptional, the universe is like all depressing dark frontsofware games ... in short I could not help you too much for your problem ... otherwise try on console, you may be bored less , or simply plug a controller into your pc ;)
 
I am not sure if that is true. I think that was just the UI fromSoftware decided to use. It is not like they couldn't make X+d-pad up(for example) to directly open the inventory. They are just being nice and give us players the experience of scrambling to open the menu, close the half of the options window so we can try and dodge the boss while scrolling to the (hopefully) right item:)
It absolutely is. From Software has, on many occasions, confirmed that the whole design is specifically based around a console controller. Everything about it, from the layout of the HUD, to the sensitivity settings, to the fact that the game will specifically rely on a rumble pack to create gameplay feedback.

Conversely, because of that fact, you can also find discussion from devs who worked on the ports talking about the difficulty of coming up with a control scheme that works for M+K without needing to completely gut that part of the code and start all over again.

The M+K is by no means "utterly dysfunctional". It works! I played that way for a while when DS1 Prepare to Die edition released. I've also played a complete playthrough of Dragon's Dogma on M+K. We can technically manage anything. But I'd describe the feeling of M+K in these games to be like trying to ride a mountain bike over rough terrain with a broken 2nd gear and a bent tire. Playing on a gamepad is like riding an ATV that just got new tires and a tune-up.

Personally, I don't really understand the crazy hype for this game... ok, that's good, we're free to wander around, explore... we fight a bit on bosses that end up falling... and then... .? Graphically it's nothing exceptional, the universe is like all depressing dark frontsofware games ... in short I could not help you too much for your problem ... otherwise try on console, you may be bored less , or simply plug a controller into your pc ;)
If you didn't like the existing SoulsBorne games, you most likely won't like this one either.

For fans of the other games, like myself...this game just nailed everything. It's more welcoming. The open-world is so huge that not only is there always something new to explore, but it eliminates the need to grind almost completely. The combat is absolutely fluid -- everything feels air-tight. They've gone nuts with the boss designs. Even regular enemies have a crazy number of move sets, keeping battles way more interesting for way longer. The world and "story" are excellent (still very much visual storytelling, but what can be gleaned as you go is phenomenal.) The map isn't big...not huge...not gigantic...it's friggin' ginormously bigga-huge. This is one, seriously detailed world. And the variety is just...fantastic.

That's where the bulk of the acclaim is coming from. It's just what I would argue is a universal improvement on everything they've ever done, delivered all in a single package, and it's absolutely huge. So, it's like a $60 bottle of wine that tastes like its a $500 bottle of special reserve from a private cellar, and they accidentally sent you an entire case. (But if you don't like wine, you probably won't care.)
 
Personally, I don't really understand the crazy hype for this game...
I'm not trying to fight, but I feel a need to reply to this point.

What do you mean by hype? Do you mean post-launch praise? At most Elden Ring had gamer+ levels of hype before release from what I could see - meaning the great majority of hype leading up to release was generated by the excitement of gamers themselves and external media. There weren't celebrities, streamers, or musical artists featured in the game. Lil Wayne wasn't the central figure of commercials about the multiplayer system. Hollywood had no presence. There weren't dozens of carefully edited trailers and dev streams covering armor, weapons, your mount, or factions telling you how awesome the game is accompanied by 15 second snips of gameplay.

We saw more of the game and less talk leading up to release, not less game and more talk as is the usual case. What happened at launch? The game turned out to be much, much, very much more than people expected. Whether or not people unfamiliar with the genre like it, or it looking like an early last-gen game (This is the norm with FromSoft titles, and it wasn't a surprise because the game looks just like it did in the trailers) is another thing entirely. The most hype thing about the game would be George RR Martin's name in the reveal trailer and barely anyone has paid this much attention after release. The great majority are happy with the game, not what it could be following years of patches and DLC.

For a game of this scope; It had one of the calmest pre-launch media campaigns I've seen.
 
So just started playing Elden ring and im not a controller player, so mouse and keyboard. And from the moment you start the game you can see that it weren't designed for it. You can play it, but its bad... really bad to be honest, to the point where you would think that these people have no clue about how games work on PC. Its more or less the usual issues with all these ports, which is that all the information you get refer to wrong hotkeys because it tells you what to press on the controller rather than the keyboard. And even on the keyboard, pretty much all the keys besides WSAD are not where you expect them or are simply not there.

Like you can't open your inventory press I or B, you have to press ESC and then open it, you have to use arrow keys by default, while still using the WSAD and mouse, who on Earth that have ever played on PC, would think that is a good idea? The map is not on M as you would expect and the list goes on, but also you can't remap a lot of these keys either in the settings.

What is the idea behind this, because I could understand it, if it were a little studio with limited resources, that they might cut corners in regards to this, but clearly a lot of effort went into Elden ring, so I don't get why not just make a good port and im not even talking about a new UI, but simply to let PC users remap more keys. That you don't have to right click and press "back" to go back etc. It seems like a very small task in the grand scheme of the game.

Is it really such a huge task to make a PC port or is it simply laziness that they don't do this, does anyone know if there actually is a good reason for this?
I haven't tried mouse/keyboard, but I can imagine that it's pretty clunky without a lot of practice. Most things about the game seem to be designed around the notion of controller-based inputs. There are big annoyances even about the controller though. I play only off-line, so I have no hesitance about using mods for the game. The most essential one for me simply stops the camera from resetting when I click the targeting button without the game being able to identify a target, because I'm at the wrong angle or something. Getting killed due to disorientation from the sudden camera reset got old quickly.
 
Distortion2, any% (and all remembrances iirc) world record holder, plays k&m so...

Anyway, to answer op's question, you can't access inventory just by pressing "I" because inventory is designed to be accessed with 2 button input (3 buttons for weapon change). This is a PvP game, too, and changing weapons on the fly is a skill. Retaining control of your character while navigating inventory is a part of gameplay. So accessing inventory with one button would be unfair competitively.

Which brings me to another point. Unless you got a controller with under-buttons for middle and ring fingers (like Xbox Elite series), playing on the pad also has its downsides. You only got your thumbs to press most buttons which hinders finesse. Like it's hard to use D-pad while retaining control of thumbsticks. It's much easier to optimize your input on a keyboard.
 
Wow first to mod a decent Keyboard/Mouse fix becomes a household name?

Wow a mod isn't even necessary... just a decent key layout and sensitivity settings and a video?

Wow how long has this been out?
Post automatically merged:

 
Distortion2, any% (and all remembrances iirc) world record holder, plays k&m so...

Anyway, to answer op's question, you can't access inventory just by pressing "I" because inventory is designed to be accessed with 2 button input (3 buttons for weapon change). This is a PvP game, too, and changing weapons on the fly is a skill. Retaining control of your character while navigating inventory is a part of gameplay. So accessing inventory with one button would be unfair competitively.

Which brings me to another point. Unless you got a controller with under-buttons for middle and ring fingers (like Xbox Elite series), playing on the pad also has its downsides. You only got your thumbs to press most buttons which hinders finesse. Like it's hard to use D-pad while retaining control of thumbsticks. It's much easier to optimize your input on a keyboard.
I'm using an Elite Series 2, and this was the first game that made me remove the 4 under-buttons. Granted, they're technically useful, but they're so sensitive that I found myself hitting them without meaning to. "Too many moving parts" this time around.

I agree with your sentiment about switching to the right gear being heavily skill-based. But the game is also heavily reliant on patterns. Doing something too quickly can throw a player off just as much as doing something too slowly. Trying to "react" in the game is always inefficient, and will rarely work. If it does work, that's a clue that you've just stumbled on a way of handling a situation like that every, single time! So it's not about getting faster -- it's about remembering that pattern.

None of this requires "speed". Only practice and knowledge of the game's mechanics. If playing efficiently, a player is executing the commands for the next action right before the animation for the current action is done. If something unexpected happens, that player will probably need to disengage, regardless of their control scheme. That leaves plenty of time to switch weapons, spells, items, etc., whether on gamepad or M+K. (Relying on the ability to switch weapons/spells/items "on-the-run" is inconsequential. It won't change the timing of incoming attacks or whether the enemy has you locked or not. It's placebo. You're either going to get hit or you're not.)

The one advantage that M+K has is ranged attacks without a target lock, like aiming down a sight on a crossbow or something. But if you're that far away from an enemy, you have all the time in the world to aim, pretty much. As almost all spells and attacks will track the locked target...not locking the target puts the player at a huge disadvantage -- whether they're on gamepad or M+K.

In the end, the gamepad offers the exact same functionality as M+K with the addition of smooth, analogue control of both feet and camera. and allows for much more natural and intuitive finger placement for the majority of commands. M+K removes analogue control of movement, and creates a more jumpy camera, while allowing you to switch spells or items more quickly, which is almost entirely inconsequential. (A player can set up anything to be instantly accessible based on the situation, but what they really "should" be doing is setting up a universal arrangement for their build -- not constantly trying to swap to this or that on-the-fly.)
 
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