Emhyr mill is the worst thing to happen to Gwent in ages.

[StrykerxS77x]

Look, I don't even want to get into whether this deck is "OP" because that's not even the issue. The problem is that it is just a really awful archetype to have in the game. It's such a rock-paper-scissors deck. Its effectiveness is entirely just a matter of what kind of deck you're playing against it. Obviously that's true to a degree of most decks, but with Emhyr mill, it's just ridiculous. If you're running even a decent amount of deck thinning you're just out of luck. Actual gameplay doesn't matter in the slightest. There's almost literally *no* effective counter-play to it. Locks are pointless. You can try to destroy Avallach before they bounce him but they're just going to Renew. Or, if you hit him after he is silver, they're just going to use Assire. And they've got so much draw power now that they'll probably draw him back. You can *maybe* use Artefact Compression but that's literally one single card and by that point they've probably already played him 3 times. Realistically, all you can really do is just *hope* that they tremendously draw poorly. Either that, or just don't run a deck with any thinning. But that's such a big part of so many fun decks.

Part of the problem also is that this deck takes *forever* to play against. You're looking at 25+ sets of turns instead of the usual 13-15. It's awful. I mean look, I'm not one of these super competitive players. I even don't mind losing so long as I get a good match out of it. But that's the problem. Every time I run into one of these I come away feeling like I just wasted 40 minutes of my life. By all rights I know I'm going to lose and it just becomes a matter of *arduously* going through the motions for a very long time. I don't say this lightly (I've been a steady player since the closed beta) but if this doesn't get hotfixed, I may just sit this patch out. Forcing your opponent to run out of cards just shouldn't be a win condition. By all means make more/better cards like Alba Spearmen and make those into the deck's win condition. But either make Avallach doomed and stubborn or make him and other draw cards only activate if your opponent has cards to draw.

I used artifact compression TWICE on his silver and gold draw cards and I still didn't stand a chance. I don't understand how this archetype is still in the game and they actually buffed it with that new bronze draw card. I hate this deck more than I have hated any archetype this game has ever had. Weather was nothing compared to this IMO. At least weather always had clear counters.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

StrykerxS77x thread merged

Muzzle on Avallac'h + Compress on Albrich = RIP Millgaard

Anyhow...



Every deck has an Achilles' Heel, just like Mill. When you have too many thinning cards, you are in a bad spot. But at the same time, if you either have a lot of control or a good power swing, you can outplay Mill. Never mind the fact that mill needs to have specific cards to win and doesn't have much inherent power.

I used compression twice and still didn't stand a chance. Mill simply doesn't' have enough counters. Not to mention I have been saying for a long long time now that Tibor is way over powered when it doesn't give the opponent a card.

 

[4RM3D]

Mill simply doesn't' have enough counters.

Nekker Warrior, if the opponent is not running Sweers. That was a random thought.

When I am playing with my ranked deck, I usually win from Mill just by sheer strength. The idea is to push round 1. Once you have a decent lead, you can pass. The opponent usually goes 2-3 cards down to close the gap because they think they can make up for it later. Then, next round, you repeat the same trick, playing your strongest cards ASAP and once your opponent emptied your deck, pass ASAP, even if you still have cards in your hand. Then he can no longer play his drawing cards.

When playing my control deck, removing Avallac'h is usually enough. On top of that, throwing down a weather wreaks havoc in long rounds.

 

[Aflickted]

putting aside the greivances with the tediousness playing against this decktype. I don't think it's OP. As others have said, They lack Tempo and are stopped in there track by passing at just the right time.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

The deck that needs to be removed from the game asap

I honestly can not look at this from any other perspective. How are mill decks not bad for the game? Not only do they make games last far longer than any other game making them tedious and annoying but they are INCREDIBLY hard to counter. If you run 25 cards and have any thinning whatsoever I do not see how you can stop a good Mill deck. I just got out of a game where I literally countered him every chance I had and it made no difference. As soon as Albrich was dropped and actually left on the board for me to interact I used artifact compression. As soon as Avalach was on the board I used Manticore Venom. When the bronze cards were dropped I used thunder on them whenever I could. How could I have countered any better than this? Is everyone supposed to run 30 cards in their decks or more just to counter this crap?? I can not believe that the devs actually buffed Mill decks with that new bronze mill card.

 

[Draconifors]

StrykerxS77x Thread merged.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Nekker Warrior, if the opponent is not running Sweers. That was a random thought.

When I am playing with my ranked deck, I usually win from Mill just by sheer strength. The idea is to push round 1. Once you have a decent lead, you can pass. The opponent usually goes 2-3 cards down to close the gap because they think they can make up for it later. Then, next round, you repeat the same trick, playing your strongest cards ASAP and once your opponent emptied your deck, pass ASAP, even if you still have cards in your hand. Then he can no longer play his drawing cards.

When playing my control deck, removing Avallac'h is usually enough. On top of that, throwing down a weather wreaks havoc in long rounds.

You need to reword this dude because what you wrote is to pass the first and the second round. I think you can see the flaw in that plan.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

You don't have bronzes to mill. You have silvers and golds. Anyway, as has been stated: kill avallach and the strategy falls flat. The deck is pretty efficient in what it does, but it's also extremely vulnerable, now that golds aren't invulnerable.

As for the "abuse of game mechanics" argument, I'd say that makes 0 sense now that we actually got 2 bronzes that directly support the existence of mill as an archtype. I believe it's pretty clear the devs mean for mill to continue being a thing.

​​​​​​My advice: stop thinking of it as some kind of cheating and accept that it's just another deck which you need to beat. Then adapt your plays and decks to do so.

I am baffled people are actually saying this. You are claiming that killing avallach destroys their strategy but that is 100% not true. I think it would be true if it wasn't for the bronze mill cards but those exist and they just continue right on Milling without the gold and silver cards.

 

[4RM3D]

You need to reword this dude because what you wrote is to pass the first and the second round. I think you can see the flaw in that plan.

Nope, I did say that on purpose. When I win from Mill, it's usually when I am still holding a few cards in the final round and pass early because it's better than letting the Magne Division draw the opponent more cards. Depending on the deck I play and the mill variance the opponent plays, that's not always possible. Anyhow, the point is that facing Mill isn't an automatic loss. I still have a positive win-rate against them.

 

[Jigzter]

Haha! Why all the hate for mill? I just won against an Emyhr mill deck with SK and it felt so good. Deck was centered on Greatsword and Light longships, more turns = more growth on my side of the board. I also run Avallach and Renew. So yeah, we were actually helping each other out. He/she actually forfeited at the later part of round 3, when I got a huge lead. Mind you, I only have 25 cards on that deck.

 

[Fjormarr]

Can someone explain to me how does mill work ? As far as I know, nothing happens if there are no cards left in your deck (unlike other tcg's, in which you lose if you can't draw). I have come across "mill" decks very few times and I did not understand what was the purpose of them making me draw cards.

 

[4RM3D]

I have come across "mill" decks very few times and I did not understand what was the purpose of them making me draw cards.

The whole idea is that the opponent keeps drawing cards while you no longer have any cards left in your deck. If the opponent then uses Avallac'h or Albrich (or Tibor), you will not get any cards while the opponent does.

Anyhow, there is one evil card in particular that almost solely enables Mill and that's Magne Division. The opponent will play this card last. The downside is that it doesn't work when you've already passed. This is the key to win from Mill. That or using damage/buff over time effects.

 

[Fjormarr]

I still don't get it. Why is it a problem if you have no more cards to draw since you have already drew everything ? If your opponent moved cards from your deck into your graveyeard, then yes, this would be bad, but moving cards to your hand sounds fine. Who wouldn't want to have his/her whole deck in hand right from the start if this was an option ?

I assume that mill damages deck thinning cards, but still it doesn't sound so terrible. Am I still missing something ?

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Nope, I did say that on purpose. When I win from Mill, it's usually when I am still holding a few cards in the final round and pass early because it's better than letting the Magne Division draw the opponent more cards. Depending on the deck I play and the mill variance the opponent plays, that's not always possible. Anyhow, the point is that facing Mill isn't an automatic loss. I still have a positive win-rate against them.

Oh I get it now. I did use this technique against a Morvran Mill deck and was able to win so yeah it can be an effective strategy.

I will have to say though that if I face a good Emhyr Mill deck it's an automatic loss for me. There is nothing I can do at all, no counters work.

The Morvran deck I faced isn't as good and the guy didn't play as well either. He could have used his best cards to close the gap in points but he waited too long and it cost him.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I still don't get it. Why is it a problem if you have no more cards to draw since you have already drew everything ? If your opponent moved cards from your deck into your graveyeard, then yes, this would be bad, but moving cards to your hand sounds fine. Who wouldn't want to have his/her whole deck in hand right from the start if this was an option ?

I assume that mill damages deck thinning cards, but still it doesn't sound so terrible. Am I still missing something ?

Yes you are missing something. At first you will think Yay I get to play my whole deck but when you run out of cards in your deck your opponent can play extremely powerful cards that usually will make you draw more (which is supposed to be their downside) but you get nothing while your opponent gets more cards. That leaves you helpless to do anything. This is very very hard to counter.

Tibor is a gold card that is worth 25 points. That is a ton. He will get to play it and you will draw NOTHING
Avallach is a gold card that makes both opponents draw two cards. He will eventually play it and get two cards while you will get NOTHING

There is more but you get the idea.

 

[BornBoring]

If your opponent moved cards from your deck into your graveyeard, then yes, this would be bad,

You mean just like sweers does? Oh....I hate this guy.

 

[Jurus331]

I still don't get it. Why is it a problem if you have no more cards to draw since you have already drew everything ? If your opponent moved cards from your deck into your graveyeard, then yes, this would be bad, but moving cards to your hand sounds fine. Who wouldn't want to have his/her whole deck in hand right from the start if this was an option ?

I assume that mill damages deck thinning cards, but still it doesn't sound so terrible. Am I still missing something ?

When you draw, they draw and mill decks don't use just 25 cards like most decks. Your opponent will keep drawing long after you can't anymore. When you play your last card, they'll still have 5-10 in their hand. That alone is enough to win in most cases. Add to that the units they can buff each time they draw a card, a 25 pt Tibor or a big unit destroying Vilgefortz that can be used without repercussions, etc.... and you get the picture.

 

[Odious_T]

Nilfgard is, essentially, a troll-faction. A range of faction-specific silver and gold card abilities that can be swapped out without really affecting the basic synergies of the bronzes making countering a matter of russian roulette.
There are some, who-may-not-be-named, who think this is ok and will use their position to prop the dynamic up - choosing to refer to it as a 'win-condition' to make it sound less broken.
I remain unconvinced.