Emhyr - The Game Non-Character vs the Book.

[wichat]

Easily? Really need to explain how a witch hunt works?
False accusations, informers greedy and addicted to power? In the history of humanity is the way to get rid of an enemy (amorous, commercial or political) without effort. Of every ten detainees, nine are caused by false accusations.

About Eredin, keep in mind how Ciri was terrified by his glow in his eyes, his words and his thoughts. He was evil, because even a regicide is a huge crime in his society.

 

[Songborn]

I think a lot of the problems with the Wild Hunt, Radovid and Eredin come down to the same circumstance that caused Emhyr to have less depth than the book character: To me it feels as though CDPR tried to do too much in one game. They had two games to build all these characters up and then had to deliver on all of them in one game. By making a huge game with so much content they actually stretched their narrative thin in some placed. Where it is concentrated it is really strong (Baron's quest), but in other places they had to resort to broad strokes.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

About Eredin, keep in mind how Ciri was terrified by his glow in his eyes, his words and his thoughts.

Blinky was fascinated...She always liked the bad guys

 

[jj284b]

You have a very angry way of making arguments.

To the mages: You are talking about why Radovid is pursuing them. I made a different point about them being not helpless.

To Eredin: Again you misunderstood my point. You are talking about how he is perceived evil by Geralt and Ciri, and you are right about that. But he has motives. They don't get laid out in this game. It's not about how it appears to Geralt and Ciri, it is about how CDPR mae him into this Hollywood Antagonist, that he isn't.

To Avallac'h: I already said I can imagine him changing this way. But nobody told the story like that.

To Dudu: I payed attention, thank you very much. But if you would've payed attention in the books: Transforming into somebody means beeing that somebody for a Doppler. Meaning Dudu would constantly feel the urge to rape, torture and kill innocent women. Regardless of the business being legal or not.

W3 is a game from Geralt perspective. in multiple occasions you only know things, Geralt would know.. you only get some info on Ciri, when somebody tells you about it.. so CDPR kept this approach throughout the game.. having some part where Ereding would explain himself would just not make sense in terms of game concept.. plus, it really doesnt matter what his goals are... Wild Hunt killed

Spoiler

Vesemir

and wants to kill Ciri.. thats pretty much end of discussion for Geralt.. no point in searching for his motives which are pretty much unimportant at that point... just think how would you behave if somebody threaten your daugher.. would you really care about their motive?

and regarding dopplers - not really - just remember what happened to doppler that pretended to be Chappelle... he was discovered just because he didnt behaved same way as real Chappelle... and that was not just the in-game change, but he was like that in Sapkowski book..


edit: angry way of making arguments is not intentional.. english is not my native language.

 

[TudorAdrian]

W3 is a game from Geralt perspective. in multiple occasions you only know things, Geralt would know.. you only get some info on Ciri, when somebody tells you about it.. so CDPR kept this approach throughout the game.. having some part where Ereding would explain himself would just not make sense in terms of game concept.. plus, it really doesnt matter what his goals are... Wild Hunt killed

Spoiler

Vesemir

and wants to kill Ciri.. thats pretty much end of discussion for Geralt.. no point in searching for his motives which are pretty much unimportant at that point... just think how would you behave if somebody threaten your daugher.. would you really care about their motive?

I don't feel that CDPR need to explain the Wild Hunt's motives to Geralt but to the player. We are owed this much especially since they've been hyped up for 2 games and pre-release period.. they could have done this by simply sliding in cutscenes of dialogue in between the members of the Hunt themselves, flashbacks/ dreams when Geralt went to see Corine Tilly in the haunted Novigrad house quest, playable cutscenes as Ciri escaping Tir na Lia or fighting the Hunt to free Geralt in the frozen wastelands etc...it's not strictly about Geralt but the player...the ones who could not help but wonder why, what and how it all actually happen...storytelling 101.

 

[jj284b]

That does not explain how the mages are so easily hunted.

Radovid created witch hunters... they were trained to hunt mages down.. dimeterium shackles would pacify any mage... even Phillipa Eilhart couldnt do much when she was transformed into Owl, just because she had dimeterium ring around the leg...

 

[CostinRaz]

Radovid created witch hunters... they were trained to hunt mages down.. dimeterium shackles would pacify any mage... even Phillipa Eilhart couldnt do much when she was transformed into Owl, just because she had dimeterium ring around the leg...

Said shackles don't explain anything in how they are able to capture them in the first place. Keeping them imprisoned? All well and good.

Sorry the whole Witch Hunt is just stupid.

 

[jj284b]

I don't feel that CDPR need to explain the Wild Hunt's motives to Geralt but to the player. We are owed this much especially since they've been hyped up for 2 games and pre-release period.. they could have done this by simply sliding in cutscenes of dialogue in between the members of the Hunt themselves, flashbacks/ dreams when Geralt went to see Corine Tilly in the haunted Novigrad house quest, playable cutscenes as Ciri escaping Tir na Lia or fighting the Hunt to free Geralt in the frozen wastelands etc...it's not strictly about Geralt but the player...the ones who could not help but wonder why, what and how it all actually happen...storytelling 101.

Still, explaining to the player should not go against game concept.. and game concept was a story told from Geralt perspective.. they gave enough of clues along the way, you just have to read them.. for example book about wild hunt says it all about kidnapping people, and you got relatively a lot of info in W1 as well.

---------- Updated at 02:38 PM ----------

Said shackles don't explain anything in how they are able to capture them in the first place. Keeping them imprisoned? All well and good.

Sorry the whole Witch Hunt is just stupid.

there are plenty ways how to pacify a mage... even Yennefer got owned by Yarpen and Cinfrid Reavers (she got hit in the head by a rock while she was about to cast a spell)... a lot of mages are not all powerful beings like Phillipa or Triss... majority of them are just ordinary "Scientists" or herbalists who have no chance to defend themselves.. so how could they catch some mage? what about throwing at him dimeterium bomb? or some dimeterium dust, or similar... applications are endless...

 

[CTPhipps]

Said shackles don't explain anything in how they are able to capture them in the first place. Keeping them imprisoned? All well and good.

Sorry the whole Witch Hunt is just stupid.

There is the small issue most mages aren't actually fighters. They don't KNOW spells for killing people. They know spells for visiting dreams and reading cheese.

 

[jj284b]

There is the small issue most mages aren't actually fighters. They don't KNOW spells for killing people. They know spells for visiting dreams and reading cheese.

and there is the whole dimeterium coliding with the spells... there is even quest when you are at

Spoiler

Kaer Morhen where you have to detect what is interfering with Yen's spells, just to find out there are crates full of Dimeterium bombs...

so Witch Hunters could simply bring enough of dimeterium with them to prevent a mage from teleporting, or casting advanced spells and they would be helpless like a chicken...

 

[Ljesnjanin]

there are plenty ways how to pacify a mage... even Yennefer got owned by Yarpen and Cinfrid Reavers (she got hit in the head by a rock while she was about to cast a spell).

It didn't stop her to turn those peasants into pigs and frogs a few moments later...

Magic is a funny thing

 

[TudorAdrian]

Still, explaining to the player should not go against game concept.. and game concept was a story told from Geralt perspective.. they gave enough of clues along the way, you just have to read them.. for example book about wild hunt says it all about kidnapping people, and you got relatively a lot of info in W1 as well.

Sorry but I do not agree one bit to this. It's pure lazy. I've read the books but am still wondering what Geralt went through during his time with the Hunt, the circumstances of his escape and how exactly did he lose his memory. The books leave off when Ciri talks to Galahad about her taking Geralt & Yen away from the raving crowd in Rivia but nothing more about their struggles from that point onward.

 

[jj284b]

yet it knocked her off enough to bind her... hell, Cinfrid Reavers almost raped her if it wasnt for Geralt and Golden Dragon

---------- Updated at 02:51 PM ----------

Sorry but I do not agree one bit to this. It's pure lazy. I've read the books but am still wondering what Geralt went through during his time with the Hunt, the circumstances of his escape and how exactly did he lose his memory. The books leave off when Ciri talks to Galahad about her taking Geralt & Yen away from the raving crowd in Rivia but nothing more about their struggles from that point onward.

It was explained in the game actually - you could ask Ciri about it - it was her who made Geralt escape but he lost memory in the process..Hunt was after Ciri ever since... whole point of taking Geralt and Yen was just to make Ciri try to save them... Eredin was after her since she escaped from Tir na Lia...

 

[TudorAdrian]

yet it knocked her off enough to bind her... hell, Cinfrid Reavers almost raped her if it wasnt for Geralt and Golden Dragon

---------- Updated at 02:51 PM ----------



It was explained in the game actually - you could ask Ciri about it - it was her who made Geralt escape but he lost memory in the process..Hunt was after Ciri ever since... whole point of taking Geralt and Yen was just to make Ciri try to save them...

Yeah Avallac'h *briefly* mentions this when travelling to Tir na Lia but it's simply not enough for the amount of hype built around the Hunt and their motives. I'm not trying to imply that the Wild Hunt were not fleshed out overall (games and books) but that they should have had more presence in the game's plot / content/ story so that CDPR could tie up all the loose ends from W1, W2 and make it feel like a well rounded story & character ensemble.

 

[jj284b]

no you could have a dialogue about this with Ciri, not with Avala'ch..

 

[CTPhipps]

On my end, the problem I had with Emhyr var Emreis is the fact that the game seems determined to sweep 90% of his characterization underneath the rug. There's a serious case of white-washing going on with the character and I can't help but wonder if this was because they didn't want to portray Nilfgaard as evil--which is ludicrous as they go out of their way to paint Radovid as a prototypical Hitler wannabe.

The problem is the game doesn't reference the Prophecy of the Son and Grandson Who Will Rule the World. It doesn't mention his marriage to Fake Ciri. It doesn't mention trying to marry Cirilla in order to sire the people above as well as secure his alliance with Cintra. It doesn't mention the fact he let Geralt and Yennefer live as well as spared her. It doesn't mention his past as Duny. It doesn't mention Cintra's invasion at all or Pavetta or Calanthe.
Some of this stuff is pretty ****ing relevant don't you think?

It makes Emhyr seem less....interesting than he is.

 

[TudorAdrian]

no you could have a dialogue about this with Ciri, not with Avala'ch..

..I beg to differ..Avallac'h discusses this with Geralt as well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTV2ODcsR9I&t=15m50s ..Ciri mentions something very brief as well but I will not derail this thread anymore.

 

[LiarOnElmstreet]

There is the small issue most mages aren't actually fighters. They don't KNOW spells for killing people. They know spells for visiting dreams and reading cheese.

That is actually the first (and very good) argument Pro Witch Hunt in Novigrad I heard. Thank you!

and there is the whole dimeterium coliding with the spells... there is even quest when you are at

Spoiler

Kaer Morhen where you have to detect what is interfering with Yen's spells, just to find out there are crates full of Dimeterium bombs...

so Witch Hunters could simply bring enough of dimeterium with them to prevent a mage from teleporting, or casting advanced spells and they would be helpless like a chicken...

That is possible, true. But what we're criticizing is that it is up to CDPR to tell us this, not up to us to explain it to ourselves in retrospective, just so their story makes sense.

 

[jj284b]

Witcher games were never about completely explaining all things to the player... you could find a lot of info in the background, if you were careful..

look what they did with Alvin..

Spoiler

you could find a letter from him, explaining some things from W1, yet that was completely random thing you could not even notice,if you were not careful...

and there are plenty of things like this... like for example finding a poem

Spoiler

about white frost destroying Tir na Lia in Avala'chs laboratory in Velen

, or backstory

Spoiler

to the ghost Crones want you to kill..

..

 

[TudorAdrian]

Witcher games were never about completely explaining all things to the player... you could find a lot of info in the background, if you were careful..

Sorry but did it ever occur to you that you might not be the only one here who actually read the books? ...honestly I've seen this attitude in other threads and it gets you nowhere...argue all you want but most of these posts do not bring solid arguments to the table...the games kick off where the books end so naturally the game-induced plot holes left unresolved & character development would fall into CDPR's writing team to fix.