[ENDING SPOILER!!!] What happens to Ciri's gift after her final "trial"?

[Tomice158]

[ENDING SPOILER!!!] What happens to Ciri's gift after her final "trial"?

Hi! Avoided to spoiler too much in the title. My question is:

Does Ciri keep her powers after defeating the White Frost?
If she still has her powers, all the tears in the "bittersweet" empress ending seem unneccesary.

Sure, her life will change a lot through her decision, and Geralt can surely spend less time with her than in the witcher ending. But overall, it doesn't seem that dramatic.
I mean, wuíth Eredin dead and the Aen Elle elves saved from the white frost, she can now use her teleport as much as she likes. She could see Geralt 3 times a week for a bit of fencing practice, a stiff drink and some talk - without any effort, no matter where he is! Also, she'll need advisors and magic training - plenty of reason to keep Yennefer and Triss around (And they can teleport, too!).
Geralt, Yen and Triss also end on reasonably good terms with Emhyr, so no big reason for him to keep them separated. He sure prefers Yen and Triss over random sorceresses who put their own agenda above Ciri's, Emhyr's and Nilfgaards wellbeing (Philippa!!!).

I also doubt Ciri would accept too harsh limitations on her personal freedom, given her immense power. Even if she pisses Emhyr off with her desire to keep contact to Geralt/Yen/Triss, her immense power and stubbornness would keep him from really forbidding it. It's not like he could force his will on her - She's more combat-capable than almost any assasin he could send after her! Not even talking about being able to disappear whenever she wants...

Of course, if she lost her powers, things would be completely different - but it's never stated, right?


As it is now, I have the feeling that the empress ending is being made more bittersweet than necessary for dramaturgic reasons. The whole symbolism of her handing her sword back to Geralt is very dramatic and symbolic, but why should she? It's not like Monarchs don't personally fight in this world.

what's your opinion?

 

[lwp]

Ciri doesn't lose her abilities, but I doubt she is going to be using them every week. She may be powerful but she needs to establish her own political power and not just ride on the laurels of her father and Voorhis, so she's going to need to spend a lot of time at court.

Geralt, Yen and Triss also end on reasonably good terms with Emhyr, so no big reason for him to keep them separated.

True, but Geralt personally hates politics and would't want to hang around Emhyr's/Ciri's court. The Empress ending is bittersweet because she is symbolically handing a great deal of her own personal freedom over so she can focus on ruling Nilfgaard. She's not going to have time to do Witcher 'things' she won't have time for Geralt, she won't have a lot of time for herself. She hands her sword to Geralt so he can have something to remember her by. I'm not saying that they will never see eachother again, that's absurd, but given her new responsibilities and Geralt's aversion to politics there time together will be somewhat limited.

Spoiler

The Witcher ending is uplifting, not bittersweet, but only because that ending happens significantly closer to the ending of the final quest then the Empress ending. Even in that ending Ciri and Geralt will eventually go their separate ways; Witchers do lead solitary lives for the most part after all.

 

[Tomice158]

You're surely right, being empress will need all of her focus.
Still, even monarchs have a bit of spare time, so as you say - "somewhat" limited, but not out of the world.

There are only a handful of people left in the world she really trusts:
- Geralt, Yen and Triss of course
- Dandelion and Zoltan are trustworthy, but powerless and hardly manage their own life - they can't help an empress much
- Crach is dead, Hjalmar raids Nilfgaard, Cerys is hardly known to her, Ermion is old and sometimes weird - not much help to be expected in Skellige
- The other witchers have dispersed after Vesemirs death - not much help here either
- Avallach was never her true friend, as we've found out
- Most other friends of her are short-term aquaintances from the lower classes without much power, knowledge or influence.

All summed up, she has three true friends capable of providing meaningful help in her endeavor. Given that she can teleport effortlessly to them, why the hell should she avoid contact to them?

Sure Geralt and Yen are tired of politics (Triss less so, or she wouldn't work for the King of Kovir in the epilogue). But that doesn't mean they can't have dinner with her every now and then - to ground her and help her stay connected to her roots.

Also, either Yen or Triss end up alone after Geralt retires with his chosen love - it's far from unrealistic that they find a new purpose in advising their beloved adoptive daughter/sister. Ciri needs someone to shield her from the likes of Philippa after all. And she needs magical training to to improve her control over her gift.

 

[Willowhugger]

Ciri is accepting that as Empress she's not going to have control of her life.

In, essence, that she is giving up her dream and family to be a servant to a people she despises and a Emperor she loathes.

It's a tragedy and a sacrifice.

Which I think the game brought out well.

It's kind of like Alistair in Dragon Age and his romance with a Commoner/Nonhuman Warden. He constantly brings up, "I hate this. I don't want this. I want to be with you, not some evil psychopath daughter of my most hated enemy."

And yet so many fans really were STUNNED when Alistair dumped them and was miserable as king.

Just my two orens.

It doesn't help that Ciri's name is going to be ABOMINATED on Skellige. People she grew up with, loves, and trust will spit on her name and wish for her death on a daily basis.

Probably the North too.

 

[Tomice158]

Interesting, never seen anybody put it so harshly. But judging from the link in your sig, you've read the books (I just bought them to read before my second playthrough).

Do you really think it will be so bad for her? Sure, it would have been for her young, comparably helpless self. But now? She's very hard to threaten after the main story, and potentially the most powerful being in the world. I doubt the deal with Emhyr would be on so bad terms, considering that she willingly accepts it out of a position of superiority (he doesn't know she's alive, and noone directly threatens her anymore).

The whole point of this thread is about understanding how much she'd be able to shape Nilfgaard and it's court to her liking.
How old is Emhyr? Is he anywhere close to resigning from age or would she have to suffer his presence for some more decades?


But you're very right about most people not understanding her motivation. They would see it as her supporting Emhyr's behaviour, instead of her infiltrating the "heart of evil" to change things to the better.

 

[Willowhugger]

Interesting, never seen anybody put it so harshly. But judging from the link in your sig, you've read the books (I just bought them to read before my second playthrough).

Do you really think it will be so bad for her? Sure, it would have been for her young, comparably helpless self. But now? She's very hard to threaten after the main story, and potentially the most powerful being in the world. I doubt the deal with Emhyr would be on so bad terms, considering that she willingly accepts it out of a position of superiority (he doesn't know she's alive, and noone directly threatens her anymore).

The whole point of this thread is about understanding how much she'd be able to shape Nilfgaard and it's court to her liking.
How old is Emhyr? Is he anywhere close to resigning from age or would she have to suffer his presence for some more decades?


But you're very right about most people not understanding her motivation. They would see it as her supporting Emhyr's behaviour, instead of her infiltrating the "heart of evil" to change things to the better.

Well, the way the games portray things and the way the books work are two very different things. If I had to make a comparison, I basically think of the books as the J.R.R. Tolkien version of the Lord of the Rings versus the games being the Peter Jackson version. For example, in the books being a Witcher is kind of a pointless professional because monsters are almost extinct and there's really no use for them anymore. It's also a horribly anachronistic and terrible thing to make them so the Witchers are glad to be going extinct. In the games, there's monsters EVERYWHERE and it's clear this world needs not just Geralt but a few thousand more Witchers--no matter the cost.

In the books, Nilfgaard is kind of a menacing dangerous presence which also threatens the North. It also makes things objectively worse. The Scoi'tael, race hatred, and religious fanaticism that make the North such a hellhole? That's largely the result of Nilfgaard stirring things up so they can destroy the North and conquer it. Here, it's very obviously more the result of the North just being kind of a hellhole and the Niflgaard are portrayed a lot nicer. It plays up the moral ambiguity and it seems clear the developers kind of imagined players would go with a "Witcher Ciri" and "Nilfgaard wins" happy ending.

Which is kind of disingenous, IMHO, as everyone should be able to choose their own ending.

In Empress Ciri's level, I think we're going to see Emhyr retire immediately as that's what Geralt implies. There's a lot of indications this isn't strictly voluntary, either, as the third invasion of the North is the last chance by Emhyr to make things right. The Nilfgaard don't like Emhyr all that much because he's kind of a ruthless dictator to THEM too and it's only his non-stop conquest of nation after nation which keeps him going. He's a bit like Alexander the Great in that everything is fine until the gravy train stops going but he's a brutal force of nature even to his own men and countrymen. Ciri replacing him is meant to smoothe things over because she's not likely to leave tens of thousands of Nilfgaardians dead in pointless wars of conquest.

The big problem I see facing Ciri is that she's a strongly independent woman and the life of a royal is something which is absolutely controlled or absolutely controls in turn. Emhyr was able to keep Nilfgaard under control through sheer force of will and ruthless use of murder as well as oppression. Even then, Emhyr had to deal with powerful nobility and Trade Unions which were able to make his reign a living hell. Cintra was massacred by the Nilfgaard but that wasn't at Emhyr's order. It was because, as powerful as Emhyr is, he didn't have the authority to reign in his own marshals who wanted to make an example of Emhyr's mother-in-law's kingdom.

Given they practice slavery in Nilfgaard and are a culture which thrives on its own superiority as well as conquest, it's going to be an uphill battle to fight the various political factions and reform the Empire for the rest of her life. Ciri will never be able to marry for love, will never be able to travel the open road, and she'll never be able to enjoy living as a common traveler like she's always dreamed. It's a sacrifice she's willing to make if Geralt and Emhyr both support it but it's not one I would ask her to make.

I think she'll do a good job but Ciri's defining quality is she rejects Royal Divinity and Honors for "Everyone is free and equal" which is going to make her life as a royal who's power depends on her being superior to everyone else....hard.

 

[Tomice158]

Thanks for this very enlightening post!

Before, I thought Ciri would use her immense array of skills to shape Nilfgaard in her own fashion. I thought she'd be strong enough to keep her own personality, to not sacrifice too much of herself.

But you made me understand that all combat skills aside, she literally has no political weight apart from being her fathers daughter. Noone knows her, noone asked for her, she has no allies, no favors to call in. Her world views are far from popular, it's not ike there's a peasant uprising everywhere that needs to be calmed down by an understanding monarch.

She'll have to make a ton of compromises before she has any chance to change anything to the better. Who knows how much is left of the Ciri we know and like by this point? She might just as well slide into madness after having ordered the first executions of political enemies. Or after having sacrificed too much of her principles and personality to gain support and respect at court.

She had possibly the toughest youth ever, I doubt her personality and mental sanity are overly stable. The frustrations of court life might break her - sooner rather than later.



She might ask Geralt for advice in the beginning, but as we see in the prologue area - when the Nilfgaardian commander who tried to be nice and failed asked Geralt what he would have done - Geralt just said "I'd rather not be in your shoes at all. Geralt might turn his back on Ciri when too much politcal dirt and innocent blood starts to cover her.

 

[Willowhugger]

I'm still pretty optimistic Ciri has a better chance than most. If nothing else, her past life has made it clear that she has the ruthlessness necessary to succeed. Geralt has taught her to kill her enemies and kill them swiftly.

Bad people will not last long.

Likewise, the Nilfgaardians are used to absolute monarchy so Ciri might have more freedom than a weaker monarch might. Elizabeth the First was able to avoid marriage to people she didn't want to marry and was nowhere near as powerful as many other Renaissance monarchs. Likewise, her father, Emhyr was also able to marry for love (twice).

While Nilfgaard is also terribly brutal, it's also prosperous so Ciri could perhaps do something for the people too.

But yes, lots of compromises and deal-makings in the future.

 

[Tomice158]

Yeah, she probably wouldn't do it if there's no chance at all to remain "herself". She might be young, but she certainly is neither naive nor stupid.
But you nicely explained that it would be quite the sacrifice.

On a related topic - Wonder how her gift will effect her success as witcher.
She seems immensely powerful by the end of the game, but she lacks many skills a witcher usually has. While she can obviously compensate not having Geralts reflexes or strenght, she lacks his fine senses, especially his nightvision. She can't use potions and is certainly a lot squishier. She also lacks a witcher's regeneration skill.

On the other hand, she is a true source (capable of casting true magic spells). If we look at the power of certain spells Yen, Philippa, Triss or even Keira cast, she should be more than able to compensate. She might not need a "Cat" potion if a spell can make Philippa see without eyes. Yen's diving spell is way more powerful than the "Killer Whale" potion. And Triss certainly outperforms Igni by some orders of magnitude (if prepared to do so, admittedly).

To all the book experts: How is it explained that Ciri never learned much magic apart from teleporting? Lack of time or lack of interest? Or is her magic talent/gift different than e.g. that of Triss? Could Ciri learn to cast a fireball if she focused on it for some time? The game seems to indicate that Ciri first and foremost lacks the patience to study spells, but she seems to be able to cast them in theory (Example: Yen asking her if she remembers the spell that could open Avallach's hideout).

Also, could Ciri learn the 5 witcher signs without mutation? Sure, a true mage wouldn't need such cheap tricks, but I'm just curious.

 

[Willowhugger]

There's some things which book readers know but game readers might not. Witchers use an entirely different kind of magical potion than normal people but there are still magical potions which can and are used by regular mages.

Triss Merrigold mentions that she was covered in third degree burns all over her body and Yennefer was blind amongst other horrible injuries after Sodden Hill but they were able to recover using amulets (Triss actually would have healed a lot faster but can't use Mage Potions).

So Ciri would be able to use Sorceress Potions and Amulets even if she couldn't use Witcher potions.

That's assuming Video Game Ciri doesn't actually regenerate, like in the game, which is entirely possible given how many superpowers she's developed.

To all the book experts: How is it explained that Ciri never learned much magic apart from teleporting? Lack of time or lack of interest? Or is her magic talent/gift different than e.g. that of Triss? Could Ciri learn to cast a fireball if she focused on it for some time? The game seems to indicate that Ciri first and foremost lacks the patience to study spells, but she seems to be able to cast them in theory (Example: Yen asking her if she remembers the spell that could open Avallach's hideout).

Triss explains that Sources are basically "Wild Magicians" in that they can't use the structured form of magic which other sorcereres can. Ciri, for example, can't learn to use Signs like Witchers but if she concentrated really hard she could probably replicate the effects on pure instinct alone. So, that's kind of a continuity error that Ciri would ever use "spells." A variety of traumatic events also prevent her from developing these powers.

However, as we see in the game, Ciri learns quite a few abilities and is able to defeat the White Frost with what we can assume is Raw Magic versus her sword.

 

[Zbotz]

This is a big problem I have with the "empress" ending, we have absolutely no idea what's actually going to happen to Ciri.

It might turn out to be the best ending (glorious leader Ciri changes the world for the better), it might turn out to be the worst ending ( Ciri just a puppet ruler, forced marriage, people still trying to exploit her powers, Emhyr might also still have his plans for Ciri...).
We just don't know, we don't even get a glimpse at her life in Nilfgaard.

On top of that Geralt (and Yennefer in my game) are basically like "Well good luck with that, we're gone" ... right.