Enemy surrender?

[BoboTheMighty]

Enemy surrender?

Seen a few videos of Dying Light recently...noticed something interesting: if caught off guard( player in stealth ?) and with gun pointed at them, enemies without guns would throw up arms in the air in surrender.
Last of Us was also supposed to have something similar, guys with a crowbar would not blindly charge if you're carrying a shotgun.
Also I remember in Gothic, when beaten, humans would fall to the ground lying unconscious, clutching at their chest, really looking in pain... you were a killer if you followed through, whatever your reason for doing it: really added more "gritty" feel to the world.
Thoughts on this? Seems far more immersive/engaging than typical "evil" options forced into dialogue, for the sake of "roleplaying"?

 

[saltyB]

Seen a few videos of Dying Light recently...noticed something interesting: if caught off guard( player in stealth ?) and with gun pointed at them, enemies without guns would throw up arms in the air in surrender.
Last of Us was also supposed to have something similar, guys with a crowbar would not blindly charge if you're carrying a shotgun.
Also I remember in Gothic, when beaten, humans would fall to the ground lying unconscious, clutching at their chest, really looking in pain... you were a killer if you followed through, whatever your reason for doing it: really added more "gritty" feel to the world.
Thoughts on this? Seems far more immersive/engaging than typical "evil" options forced into dialogue, for the sake of "roleplaying"?

Yes i love that special detail!

It also sometimes happend in Far Cry 2, well they don't surrender but when you hurt someone for example shooting him into the leg or something, some other dude will try to get him in safety!

That's really a nice immersion always. Sadly you don't have that in many games.

 

[Nomad_Xenon]

Yes, quite an interesting option, it adds more realism.

 

[4meg]

Say they implement such a system. Does killing a character that has surrendered or become incapacitated count positively or negatively against your character? If it counts positively, then why bother with a surrender system at all? If it counts negatively then how does that get represented?

 

[Sardukhar]

Say they implement such a system. Does killing a character that has surrendered or become incapacitated count positively or negatively against your character? If it counts positively, then why bother with a surrender system at all? If it counts negatively then how does that get represented?

What do you mean by "counts"? There isn't a Karma system, really. There is Rep. In the PnP anyway.

There is a Humanity/Empathy system, but it's the Dark Future - you have to do some really evil stuff before that starts to noticeably show. Or go heavily cyber.

 

[4meg]

What do you mean by "counts"? There isn't a Karma system, really. There is Rep. In the PnP anyway.

There is a Humanity/Empathy system, but it's the Dark Future - you have to do some really evil stuff before that starts to noticeably show. Or go heavily cyber.

That's what I mean. Having an npc surrender only to kill them seems a bit pointless unless it affects the game/character in some way.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

It would be good to have the NPC's have some sort of sense for self preservation rather than having everyone be mindless maniacs.

And yeah, if there was some sort of "I yield" system at place, there should definitely be some consequences for both letting them live or killing them regardless. Case specific.

The surrendering NPC's (some of them) might even lie and - if you're careless - try to stab you in the back the minute you turn it to them.

 

[Sardukhar]

That's what I mean. Having an npc surrender only to kill them seems a bit pointless unless it affects the game/character in some way.

Ah. I see. Good point.

Well, CP2020 uses a Stun-shock system, so it's quite common for your opponent(s) to collapse before dying. Usually you blow a Stun save before a Mortal Save unless you're borged.

Even when you blow your Mortal save, Trauma Team can revive you up to five minutes after death. Gets harder of course.

So KO ing an NPC is pretty easy. You might not even realise they were stunned and not dead - they'd be lying there, blood everywhere, you're in the middle of a fight or an escape..

NPCs also blow COOL checks and might just run away/give up. If you still want them dead, you'd just fire again. If not, let them quiver and just keep walking.

Role-playing thing.

 

[Suhiira]

I'd love to see some sort of "surrender" or "flee" system. Mindlessly continuing to attack is just fine for zombie games but when a pack of wolves attacks you don't have to kill every last one of them ... one or two and the rest will run off and look for an easier meal ... unless they're rabid in which case they won't be in a pack in the first place!

While CP2020 doesn't have a karma system you do have "Empathy" and "Humanity" and these should definitely be affected by slaughtering helpless foes.

A straight 1-for-1 loss isn't right, it should scale. In CP2020 "Humanity" starts out at Empathy x 10 with a max of 100, and at 0 you become a Cyberpsycho. So I'd take advantage of this. If you're humanity 90+ killing a helpless may lead to the loss of say 5 Humanity, at 80-89 it's 4, 70-79 it's 3 etc. And yes you'll get to the point where you have to kill multiple people to lose a point of Humanity, and yes there comes a point you can't lose any more ... you're already a soulless, heartless bastard/bitch ... ummm ... say a floor of 20 Humanity? 10? Certianly NOT zero ... that should be reserved for cyberpsycho.

And before you ask ... yes this should stack with the humanity loss from cyberware ... putting metal in your body ... or into surrendered foes ... is the same thing for this purpose. You're becoming less "human" and more "mindless machine".

 

[arkhenon]

I also second the idea of some enemies trying to preserve themselves, flee, or pass out/go in shock from pain. That would definitely increase the amount of "realism" in the game world. Of course it should also have repercussions (positive or negative, based on the context). It is definitely interesting, and sort of unique. Not many games went this way, and especially not in the recent generations.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

That's what I mean. Having an npc surrender only to kill them seems a bit pointless unless it affects the game/character in some way.

Well for one, you could see it as a matter of roleplaying...even if has no reward/effect feedback. It also makes the world feel a bit more "grounded".

Then, it comes down to binary moral choice. Merciless player would receive immediate reward as loot... "good" players thinking long term, would have better reputation with general populace and receive certain rewards... some merchants offering discount/unique crafting components/etc.
But for this economy has to be pretty strict or this will simply fall flat ( like in Technomancer).

Over time, this could also effect sidequests, gaining you better/worse standing with some factions.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

yes, this is a great idea, makes the experience more immersive and realistic, it could be added lso a non lethal takedown, like in deus ex human revoltion and makind divided, you know, to avoid the enemy from call for reinforcements later or give your position, etc
and if an enemy surrenders we can still steal his ammo and weapons,
just imagine the girl of the teaser trailer pointing a gun to an enemy's forehead and screaming asking for info or to get his weapons, awesome as f****

Spoiler

 

[Suhiira]

That's easy, if they surrender you have the opportunity to loot them just the same as if they were corpses.

As to repercussions of them running off and reporting you and such, a pocket full of zip-strips takes care of that pretty easily. We'll assume once the mission is completed someone comes along and frees them. The point is they're out of the mission just as if they were killed.

 

[Sardukhar]

That's easy, if they surrender you have the opportunity to loot them just the same as if they were corpses..

Oooh, could have a few cool, "hands behind your head, lie on the ground" animations as you search them.

 

[reidyboy102998]

I would love to see enemies surrender to you as well as yourself (the main protagonist) surrender to the cops. It would be a nice feature like in Mafia II or GTA IV. Please add this in CDPR. It would make the world/ gameplay feel more realistic.