Enforcer should absolutely be reverted as it was before Mid-Winter Patch

[partci]

Enforcer should absolutely be reverted as it was before Mid-Winter Patch

First of, this comes from a main NG player.

Today some guy used an Enforcer as a finisher on me (he dry passed R1 and I had pretty good hand with Morvran so I dry passed R2) for an over 26 points swing. With a Bronze card. Was aggregated, to say the least.

Remember when Axemen were, as proven lately, a Silver card in three Bronze cards bodies?

Enforcer feels the same now.

What's more - if you would use this retroactive mechanic on one BRONZE card, why not put it also on cards like Elven Marksman, War Longship and Mangonel?

Such a fun game we'll have than, aren't we?

 

[Pruny]

i was thinking that enforcers could stay retroactive but damage only 1 point per spy

 

[PeteTheN00b]

The retroactive change should definitely be reverted. If people believe that the deck would be too bad after this change because of the powercreep, which it probably wouldn't since it was overtuned before midwinter anyway, then they could just buff the card by 2 points. There is no reason for the three engine cards in spies to have become another 3 impera brigades.

 

[Sailears]

I heartily agree with this.

 

[partci]

Just asked Merchant on his stream and he said Enforcers are looked at and will most likely be changed with the patch.

 

[ClimbHigh]

Right, pls look at it. Currently it is pretty ridiculous for a bronze

 

[Jhinjie96]

Can we nerf Enforcer's already?

Really broken card, the deck I run has a lot of removal yet even If I get rid of them they get rezzed by Vicovaro, Don't know how NG didn't get a looking at during the balance patch.

 

[4RM3D]

Jhinjie96

thread merged

 

[OG.laloquaint]

Really broken card, the deck I run has a lot of removal yet even If I get rid of them they get rezzed by Vicovaro, Don't know how NG didn't get a looking at during the balance patch.

It's actually impossible for a vicovaro medic to resurrect an enforcer unless it's in your graveyard. You can't revive them with ointment neither. I do agree that they should go back to how they used to be though.

 

[Khreygond]

I disagree.

Sure it might have been 26 points. So are Berserkers when dropped THAT late into the round and with a proper setup. Bronze finishers are a thing and have been so for a long time. Should they not be as powerful as golds? probably. But that is the powercreep's fault. Besides, Impera Brigades can be worth just as much.

Right now the enforcers are the only thing that's keeping the spy deck competitive. With the powercreep being as it is each bronze is worth 12 - 14 points without setup. The enforcer needs at least 3 - 4 spies to be worth that. And that's AFTER your first engine unit, which all it does is suck up the points you've given to your opponent with the spies.

Why not give that to the marksman? I agree. Why not?
Why not give that to mangonels and longships? because it's not the same. These engines are more conventional. You get bronze cards that can reveal 2 cards ,and golds that can reveal up to 4. A retroactive change in mangonels would be far more powerful than enforcers could ever be. Not to mention I doubt they could figure out a way to code the amount of card reveals that have happened since the start of the round ignoring the playing of those cards (meaning, suppose you have revealed 8 cards during the round in total. 5 of which have been played. does said mangonel fire 8 times or 3?). On the contrary, spies are not that many. there are 3 emissaries and 3 infiltrators, 4 with ceallach at best. Then there's the silvers too. So it's a fair trade to building your whole deck around that mechanic and playing for SUCH a long round as the one you are describing.

The numbers speak for themselves too. GwentUP report shows that Emhyr has a winrate smaller than 50%

Spies are the epitome of engines. Start slow, end up progressively more powerful while the round is going. The difference with conventional is that their engine is on the opposing side, they don't actually need their units on the board, they need spies on the opposite side. Then they can summon their units from the deck at full power without having to have played them early on. Meaning that the engine setup is unconventional, you don't have to slowly place your engine units on the board like you do with other factions. As such, what I think should provide more interaction instead is not reverting the enforcers but giving ALL factions more ways to deal with spies. Shuffling them in the deck like with the old field medic, able to kill them, swap them, reset their tokens, banish them or lock them. Stuff like that.

 

[Rawls]

I kinda like the retro-activity of enforcers (and I don't play NG). I think the problem is it hits for 2 instead of 1. I would prefer it if they gave the body a boost to 7 or 8 and nerfed the damage from 2 to 1. This would make it a 11-15 point card in most circumstances. Which ranges from meh to very good for a bronze.

 

[Khreygond]

Hmm, maybe what would satisfy people is if retroactive damage was 1 and damage from playing spies after enforcers are on the board was 2.

Either way, I don't think Enforcers are much of a problem personally. Dwarves and Bears are far worse.

 

[Bondonkadonk]

As someone who's been playing spies since NG first came about, I fully agree. They're very powerful currently and I'm really not sure why they got changed considering spies were already doing pretty well before the change. We already have the brigade with a retroactive ability, which I think is fine because it's power on the board. You place a few spies down, draw a brigade, smack him down at 10+str, out of range of a lot of removal but still able to be countered in a number of ways (scorch, dbomb, weather, lock etc), this allows you to get a fairly high tempo play, while also letting your opponent react to it if they want. The issue with enforcer is there's no such counter. By the time enforcer hits the board, it's already been used, as most the time you play it later when most spies are already on the board. There is no counter or way to prevent enforcers power swings beyond attempting to sabotage the spies, because they can't be locked or removed before they've already used their ability. Mogwai's recent talk on current gwent explains it pretty well.

Again, I say this as someone who loves NG and used to have NG spies as my top played deck. I don't play spies as much any more because I find they've lost a lot of the cunning that it used to take to play them, and I think enforcer is the main culprit to this. These days I bounce between slave/soldier spam, reveal control and slave driver (endorse slavery deck) spam.

 

[Snake_Foxhounder]

Nilfgaard fan here. Absolutely agree. We need more cards that require setup not less.

 

[ZenaRose]

Enforcer change must be reverted.

 

[TheNotoriousThree]

I kinda like the retro-activity of enforcers (and I don't play NG). I think the problem is it hits for 2 instead of 1. I would prefer it if they gave the body a boost to 7 or 8 and nerfed the damage from 2 to 1. This would make it a 11-15 point card in most circumstances. Which ranges from meh to very good for a bronze.

Strongly disagree. Retroactivity and deploy effects are a very bad thing for the game, the very few cards that are engines should stay engines by all means. So I also think that they should be reverted. So they are engines again, otherwise they are also just cards that vomit out points and you can't do anything about it.

 

[Bondonkadonk]

Strongly disagree. Retroactivity and deploy effects are a very bad thing for the game, the very few cards that are engines should stay engines by all means. So I also think that they should be reverted. So they are engines again, otherwise they are also just cards that vomit out points and you can't do anything about it.

Yeah, this. Gwent needs to step back to engine cards and reactive plays. If all you're ever doing is placing points down, then it doesn't become about strategy, it becomes about who can put down the most points with little interaction between one another. That's why I've never personally been a fan of decks like dwarves and spelltell, because they're the same play every time and don't rely on the consideration of your opponent.

 

[jsachun]

Is it just me, or am I crazy. I found spys NG were lot easier deal with this patch than the past. Maybe it's not because of enforcer change but because other factions got a buff.

 

[soph912]

Is it just me, or am I crazy. I found spys NG were lot easier deal with this patch than the past. Maybe it's not because of enforcer change but because other factions got a buff.

All NG leaders have a winrate below 50%. Spy NG is the relatively best NG with a 50% winrate but below 2800 mmr Spy NG has a winrate of 60%.
Those players usually don't know how to play against Spy NG and then complain on reddit and in the forum how overpowered they are.

Of course you have to get out of the round if your opponent has a lot of spies on board. Is it the last round you are doomed. Shouldn't have passed early in round 1 or 2. Only do that if you have a strong long round as well.

 

[SHALLAHJUSTICE]

There a really powerful bronze, i think there too much. The whole spies deck is the most synergized deck in the game, very difficult to counter.

Myrgtabrakke is good for taking out spies but they just rez them so its a fruitless struggle really.