Eyes colour?

[Dona.794]

Saskia indeed bears a strong resemblance to the newest incarnation of Lara Croft, especially if you compare their faces - almost identical!

Sooo glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

 

[Germanicanus]

Sooo glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

and they both could be played by Keira Knightley (after she hits gym)

 

[Kinley]

and they both could be played by Keira Knightley (after she hits gym)

Please no....

 

[Anwell]

Maybe the golden eyes where ment for Iorveth? Like in the original poster. I got so used to that, I was quite suprised when his eye was green (keep wanting to say eyes )

 

[Dona.794]

Maybe the golden eyes where ment for Iorveth? Like in the original poster. I got so used to that, I was quite suprised when his eye was green (keep wanting to say eyes )

Hmm, but he never had golden eye? Green eyes can appear amber-ish in certain lighting. Even the Alpha trailer version of him had green eye (although that doesn't say much since all models used the same eye model, even Geralt). If you're talking about the poster with Geralt and Iorveth's head floating in the corner, I think they made the eye golden to go with overall look - there are no greens in the image and a detail like that would draw unnecessary attention.

 

[Anwell]

Yeah it was that poster I was talking about. I knew he had green eyes before I played the game, the poster was just the first image i saw of him, so it kinda stuck in my head.
Hmm never actually notice there isnt any green in that poster, good point.

 

[username_2093396]

Spoiler

I am not talking about how Saskia would have fared as a person. I am saying, that Saskia would not have been able to build and maintain a state because nothing I see points to her having the skills necessary to pull it off except charisma (which is no where near enough). Hence Philippa being necessary because she is a stateswoman + her plan with the Council and Conclave that is a major reason why the whole secession plan makes sense (on its own, I don't see it as sustainable for reasons I explained beforehand).
The Nilfgaard argument is one in hindsight as neither character had it in their calculations. And Philippa's presence or absence would have changed little in the long run, Letho was most likely going to complete his mission.

Stennis was never kept to be a figurehead, Saskia was the figurehead that Philippa owned. He was kept to rally Aedirnian nobles to the fight. Based on your argument, Saskia would have foolishly given Aedirnian nobles even more reason to side with Henselt, as some already did. Heck, even Stennis himself could have allied with Henselt who could just promise him the throne and the annihilation of Saskia in exchange for upper Aedirn.
That's not only 300 knights that wouldn't have joined Saskia. That's 300 knights that might have joined Henselt. If Philippa really did orchestrate this alliance, then it was a stroke of genius. One Saskia is incapable of, as you just argued.

Yes Iorveth brings Saskia much needed cynicism. But Iorveth is no politician and no statesman. Philippa is the best politician in the game barring Radovid.

Spoiler

I guess the way I'm looking at it, the whole point of Saskia's rebellion is to establish a state where everyone is treated equally. That's clearly not Phillipa's goal, and I don't think mind-controlled Saskia would care about equality and rule of law either (just look at how she executed Dethmold for alleged war crimes when all he did was blow up a gate). The way I see it, if Saskia can't establish her idealistic state on her own then it's not worth having. Under Phillipa things would probably be the same as they are everywhere else, so what's the point? I'd rather let Saskia try to do things her way and see what happens.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Spoiler

I guess the way I'm looking at it, the whole point of Saskia's rebellion is to establish a state where everyone is treated equally. That's clearly not Phillipa's goal, and I don't think mind-controlled Saskia would care about equality and rule of law either (just look at how she executed Dethmold for alleged war crimes when all he did was blow up a gate). The way I see it, if Saskia can't establish her idealistic state on her own then it's not worth having. Under Phillipa things would probably be the same as they are everywhere else, so what's the point? I'd rather let Saskia try to do things her way and see what happens.

Spoiler

How is it clear?
Yes Philippa did not respect the rule of Law in that specific instance, because she needed Sile to quickly assume the position of Henselt's adviser. Its ethical standing aside, this has nothing to do with Saskia' egalitarianism. There is nothing really pointing to Philippa wanting to oppress non-humans or keep them in their current state. One of her closest allies is Findabair, an elf. And I bet that she realizes that the oppression of nonhumans is a great asset for Nilfgaardians.

She may not value equality intrinsically, but she would certainly value it instrumentally. She can't have a strong pontar state without the dwarves and elves being happy. So I believe the dichotomy you're putting forth is a false one. Philippa might be ruthless and might have disrespected the Rule of Law in a specific instant, but that does not make her pro-status quo or anti-reform.

 

[username_2093396]

Spoiler

How is it clear?
Yes Philippa did not respect the rule of Law in that specific instance, because she needed Sile to quickly assume the position of Henselt's adviser. Its ethical standing aside, this has nothing to do with Saskia' egalitarianism. There is nothing really pointing to Philippa wanting to oppress non-humans or keep them in their current state. One of her closest allies is Findabair, an elf. And I bet that she realizes that the oppression of nonhumans is a great asset for Nilfgaardians.

She may not value equality intrinsically, but she would certainly value it instrumentally. She can't have a strong pontar state without the dwarves and elves being happy. So I believe the dichotomy you're putting forth is a false one. Philippa might be ruthless and might have disrespected the Rule of Law in a specific instant, but that does not make her pro-status quo or anti-reform.

Spoiler

But Phillipa disrespects the rule of law in every instance. She couldn't manipulate Radovid anymore because he got wise to her crap, so instead she had Demavend murdered and then mind-controlled Saskia to turn her into an obedient slave. Everything that Phillipa did in TW2 was centered around gaining power for herself at everyone else's expense. Sure she'd try to use the nonhumans at first, which would work for awhile since they follow Saskia and Phillipa was controlling her. However during that execution of Dethmold scene, several people seemed to suspect that something was up because Saskia was not acting like herself. Sooner rather than later they would realize that something was wrong with Saskia, and then Phillipa would no longer have a use for them.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Spoiler

But Phillipa disrespects the rule of law in every instance. She couldn't manipulate Radovid anymore because he got wise to her crap, so instead she had Demavend murdered and then mind-controlled Saskia to turn her into an obedient slave. Everything that Phillipa did in TW2 was centered around gaining power for herself at everyone else's expense. Sure she'd try to use the nonhumans at first, which would work for awhile since they follow Saskia and Phillipa was controlling her. However during that execution of Dethmold scene, several people seemed to suspect that something was up because Saskia was not acting like herself. Sooner rather than later they would realize that something was wrong with Saskia, and then Phillipa would no longer have a use for them.

Spoiler

Because leading a peasant revolt is respecting the Rule of Law? Turning into a dragon and trying to burn the king of Temeria alive is respecting the Rule of Law?
You can only respect the laws of a state you recognize as legitimate, so in that sense, Philippa only disrespected it once with regards to the Pontar State.
Power politics inevitably has winners and losers, Philippa being at the top of the food chain until Radovid brought her down is not a point in her disfavor. Had Philippa's plan worked, which it didn't only because of the unpredictable Nilfgaardian intervention by Letho, would have been beneficial to the North and far more sustainable than Saskia on her own.

Speculation. Philippa doesn't need to be as radical on every turn. Her execution of Dethmold was due to a specific context and while some people raised an eyebrow, no one is going to give a damn after a few days. Furthermore, she said that Saskia is more like herself than people would think.

People are as likely if not more so to find out that Saskia is a dragon, than she is being controlled by Philippa.

 

[username_2093396]

Spoiler

Because leading a peasant revolt is respecting the Rule of Law? Turning into a dragon and trying to burn the king of Temeria alive is respecting the Rule of Law?
You can only respect the laws of a state you recognize as legitimate, so in that sense, Philippa only disrespected it once with regards to the Pontar State.
Power politics inevitably has winners and losers, Philippa being at the top of the food chain until Radovid brought her down is not a point in her disfavor. Had Philippa's plan worked, which it didn't only because of the unpredictable Nilfgaardian intervention by Letho, would have been beneficial to the North and far more sustainable than Saskia on her own.

Speculation. Philippa doesn't need to be as radical on every turn. Her execution of Dethmold was due to a specific context and while some people raised an eyebrow, no one is going to give a damn after a few days. Furthermore, she said that Saskia is more like herself than people would think.

People are as likely if not more so to find out that Saskia is a dragon, than she is being controlled by Philippa.

Spoiler

I simply don't like Phillipa. She's not a very likeable person and that's why she needed Saskia in the first place, because nobody would ever follow Phillipa on her own. Phillipa is a self-centered manipulative bitch and she is always finding excuses to do whatever she wants for her own benefit. To bring up the Dethmold thing again, the specific context is that she wanted to replace Dethmold with someone that she had control over so she had him killed. She can't accept anyone not blindly doing what she wants.

Phillipa and Sile are so full of themselves and they have such a smug sense of superiority that they assume it's normal for people to fawn over them and do whatever they say. That's precisely why Letho was able to play them so badly and use them back in order to further his own agenda, not to mention why Cynthia was able to spy on Phillipa for so long without ever raising her suspicions.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Spoiler

I simply don't like Phillipa. She's not a very likeable person and that's why she needed Saskia in the first place, because nobody would ever follow Phillipa on her own. Phillipa is a self-centered manipulative bitch and she is always finding excuses to do whatever she wants for her own benefit. To bring up the Dethmold thing again, the specific context is that she wanted to replace Dethmold with someone that she had control over so she had him killed. She can't accept anyone not blindly doing what she wants.

Phillipa and Sile are so full of themselves and they have such a smug sense of superiority that they assume it's normal for people to fawn over them and do whatever they say. That's precisely why Letho was able to play them so badly and use them back in order to further his own agenda, not to mention why Cynthia was able to spy on Phillipa for so long without ever raising her suspicions.

Spoiler

Absolutely, Philippa cannot win the minds and hearts of people like Saskia can, that was never in question. As for the rest, most of it is not only fine by me, but a reason why I like her. What you call a "manipulative bitch", I call a successful politician and mastermind, and a good stateswoman. Just like Radovid, except less efficient. Both are undoubtedly motivated by personal gains, but that does not exclude genuine concern for their polities' interests. I do not see things in dichotomies.

Does she and her colleagues have flaws? Flaws that Letho so masterfully exploited? Of course they do. That's what I love about the Witcher. Competent antagonists with human and not exaggerated flaws, unlike some other game.

I am sure you can agree though that Philippa is a great character, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to have this very fun discussion

 

[Oloroar]

Spoiler

Absolutely, Philippa cannot win the minds and hearts of people like Saskia can, that was never in question. As for the rest, most of it is not only fine by me, but a reason why I like her. What you call a "manipulative bitch", I call a successful politician and mastermind, and a good stateswoman. Just like Radovid, except less efficient. Both are undoubtedly motivated by personal gains, but that does not exclude genuine concern for their polities' interests. I do not see things in dichotomies.

Does she and her colleagues have flaws? Flaws that Letho so masterfully exploited? Of course they do. That's what I love about the Witcher. Competent antagonists with human and exaggerated flaws, unlike some other game.

I am sure you can agree though that Philippa is a great character, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to have this very fun discussion

That was never questioned, we all agree shes a great character . I simply lack the respect for her that you do. By the way, does anyone know the original purpose of this topic?....something about eye color I believe. Oh well, talking about politics is better .

 

[username_2093396]

I am sure you can agree though that Philippa is a great character, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to have this very fun discussion

Absolutely I'm just trying to explain why I don't like her personality. I totally understand that those very same reasons could contribute to someone else liking her. However in general I don't like manipulative characters, even if they would be successful politicians. The only reason I make an exception for Letho is because he's just so damned brilliant that I'm too impressed to be angry at him

 

[Vermeer]

That was a rather interesting exchange, guys.

Spoiler

While I agree Philippa excels as a politician, I find strongly doubtful she ever cared at all about the plebeians' interests. Sorcerers in general, and specially the Lodge, are extremely conceited. They are meant to rule the states, they think, because mages are superior people, wiser, lucid . The Lodge even adds a feminist-chauvinistic argument over this crap. So the ultimate goal of Phil's actions is to gain (and keep) political power for herself and her kind. Nilfgaard is their natural enemy because, as it is known, sorcerers there enjoy a far less privileged status.

In fact, I find slightly deceitful the way Nilfgaard is portrayed in the games. While imperialist, agressive and expansive, there are plenty of hints in the books that point to the Empire being way ahead the Northern Kingdoms (with the possible exception of Kovir) in terms of social laws and general progress. They seem to be more like a country in the Age of Enlightenment, unlike their Nothern counterparts (Emhyr=Napoleon? dohoho).

 

[secondchildren]

Well, since the topic of the thread is changed a little, I'm moving into Plot and Quests sections, so that you can stop talking in spoilers tag

 

[Germanicanus]

That was a rather interesting exchange, guys. While I agree Philippa excels as a politician, I find strongly doubtful she ever cared at all about the plebeians' interests. Sorcerers in general, and specially the Lodge, are extremely conceited.

Not necessarily all mages are not bothered by the interest of common people - Tissaia de Vries, undoubtedly one of the greatest if not the greatest and talented sorceress, was known to consider commoners's needs as important and worth attention of the most powerful ones. In the Lodge you could find sorceress that are not as driven by politics or ideological orientations such as Margarita Laux-Antille, Ida Emean aep Sivney and, ironically given her role in the game, Sheala de Tancarville. There's no need for any sweeping generalization.

They are meant to rule the states, they think, because mages are superior people, wiser, lucid . The Lodge even adds a feminist-chauvinistic argument over this crap.

Last time I heard feminism was all about gender equality, so how it applies to the Lodge? The community of mages in the Witcher world is extremely liberal and tolerant for quasi-medieval society. Women not only are able to work, but can also achieve the highest positions possible as close advisers in the court and in the Council and Conclave. They are not treated differently than men at all. In addition to this, no wonder that mages had such high opinion of themselves: not only their life-span is far longer than average human, but their knowledge, abilities and skills exceeds both humans and any other species' counterparts. Just think what would have you done if you were taken to middle age times while being able to use magic and possessing knowledge of the wisest minds of the current century?

So the ultimate goal of Phil's actions is to gain (and keep) political power for herself and her kind. Nilfgaard is their natural enemy because, as it is known, sorcerers there enjoy a far less privileged status.

I beg to differ again. Nilfgaard is their enemy not only because mages are treated there no better than mere servants, but also because a large portion of the Lodge members took an active role in opposing them. Actually Margarita - if you don't obviously count Fringilla, Assire and Sheala representing either Nilfgaard or neutral Kovir - is the only one who neither didn't take part in the Battle of Sodden Hill against Nilfgaardian sorcerers, but she also wasn't involved in Philippa's putsch. No wonder they do everything that is necessary to prevent Nilfgaard from conquering the Northern Kingdoms - they would sooner end up in jail or sentenced to death than being used as puppets; a consequence which you are suggesting.

In fact, I find slightly deceitful the way Nilfgaard is portrayed in the games. While imperialist, agressive and expansive, there are plenty of hints in the books that point to the Empire being way ahead the Northern Kingdoms (with the possible exception of Kovir) in terms of social laws and general progress. They seem to be more like a country in the Age of Enlightenment, unlike their Nothern counterparts (Emhyr=Napoleon? dohoho).

Why Napoleon though? Emhyr has birth rights to the throne, since his father was also Emperor. They are indeed more advanced than TNK save from Kovir and Poviss, which their imperialist and expansive politics could contribute to. Definitely we will see more of the state in W3.

 

[username_2093396]

Well, since the topic of the thread is changed a little, I'm moving into Plot and Quests sections, so that you can stop talking in spoilers tag

Thanks

While I agree Philippa excels as a politician, I find strongly doubtful she ever cared at all about the plebeians' interests. Sorcerers in general, and specially the Lodge, are extremely conceited. They are meant to rule the states, they think, because mages are superior people, wiser, lucid . The Lodge even adds a feminist-chauvinistic argument over this crap. So the ultimate goal of Phil's actions is to gain (and keep) political power for herself and her kind. Nilfgaard is their natural enemy because, as it is known, sorcerers there enjoy a far less privileged status.

Exactly. At least in TW2, that's precisely how Phillipa comes across (and to a lesser extent Sile).

Triss does say that as far as the Lodge goes, Phillipa kicked out anyone who disagreed with her. So I assume that any normal non-megalomaniac sorceresses all got kicked out like Triss did. Therefore, even though there were probably some good sorceresses in the books, they presumably had nothing to do with Phillipa's plan in the games (and maybe even would have tried to stop her if they had known what she was up to).

In fact, I find slightly deceitful the way Nilfgaard is portrayed in the games. While imperialist, agressive and expansive, there are plenty of hints in the books that point to the Empire being way ahead the Northern Kingdoms (with the possible exception of Kovir) in terms of social laws and general progress. They seem to be more like a country in the Age of Enlightenment, unlike their Nothern counterparts (Emhyr=Napoleon? dohoho).

It's funny you should say that. I played TW2 first and I was actually a bit sympathetic towards Nilfgaard because Letho was very awesome, and the northern kings really pissed me off (mainly Henselt, but the other ones didn't really endear themselves to me either). Then when I read Blood of Elves I got even more pissed off at the Emperor for what happened to Ciri. So I don't really think the game is biased against Nilfgaard. I think they simply didn't have time to explain too much about Nilfgaard since the main reveal happens near the end of the game, so while TW2 left out some of the good things, it left out a lot of bad things too.

 

[Vermeer]

Nabuchodonozor: I said myself 'sorcerers in general', of course I was generalizating. I didn't intend to judge all of them individually (except for Philippa), but their behavior as a group of people with common interests to defend.

About the feminism: I didn't encounter a better choice of words; I'm no native English, you see. I'm specifically refering at the argument 'we deserve to rule because we are women, evidently more capable of it, by nature, than men' which is actually implied in one of the Lodge meetings. As a woman, gender-equality feminist myself, this made me facepalm pretty hard.

The community of mages in the Witcher world is extremely liberal and tolerant for quasi-medieval society. Women not only are able to work, but can also achieve the highest positions possible as close advisers in the court and in the Council and Conclave. They are not treated differently than men at all. In addition to this, no wonder that mages had such high opinion of themselves: not only their life-span is far longer than average human, but their knowledge, abilities and skills exceeds both humans and any other species' counterparts.

Yeah, I understand why are they so conceited. That doesn't make them less patronizing in my book. They are just like royalty talking about divine rights.

I beg to differ again. Nilfgaard is their enemy not only because mages are treated there no better than mere servants, but also because a large portion of the Lodge members took an active role in opposing them. Actually Margarita - if you don't obviously count Fringilla, Assire and Sheala representing either Nilfgaard or neutral Kovir - is the only one who neither didn't take part in the Battle of Sodden Hill against Nilfgaardian sorcerers, but she also wasn't involved in Philippa's putsch. No wonder they do everything that is necessary to prevent Nilfgaard from conquering the Northern Kingdoms - they would sooner end up in jail or sentenced to death than being used as puppets; a consequence which you are suggesting.

As I said, Nilfgaard is their natural enemy. I don't see how you are differing...?

Why Napoleon though?

Nah, it was just a silly thought. Because of the conqueror thing, and all this also reminded me of a portion of my country's history, the Peninsular War. During this period, a more advanced France occupied Spain, and there were people (spaniards) who supported being conquered because they thought France would rule better, and overall it would be beneficial for the common folks.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Exactly. At least in TW2, that's precisely how Phillipa comes across (and to a lesser extent Sile).

Triss does say that as far as the Lodge goes, Phillipa kicked out anyone who disagreed with her. So I assume that any normal non-megalomaniac sorceresses all got kicked out like Triss did. Therefore, even though there were probably some good sorceresses in the books, they presumably had nothing to do with Phillipa's plan in the games (and maybe even would have tried to stop her if they had known what she was up to).

I really saw nothing in the game that clearly showed Philippa not giving a damn about anyone other than herself. One could be very ambitious and also care about others. I think Philippa genuinely cares for the North and whether she genuinely cares or not about nonhumans, realizes that they need to be treated equally.

Keep in mind that Triss is a manipulator herself. Obviously she is going to distance herself from the Lodge. But I would take everything she says with a grain of salt.