Faction Blacklisting

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Faction Blacklisting


  • Total voters
    31
Faction Blacklisting

It is impossible to create deck that beats everything else in the game. Some decks are good against specific factions/archetypes and against others they are not so good. It is mainly OK. But sometimes, when balance is not OK, there are factions/archetypes that beat the shit out of your gameplan totally. And I am not talking about some silly decks that couldn't win a game cause they are just stupid.

Should it be so? Should there be a chance to get on an opponent whose victory you are sure from the first round of the game? My answer is NO.

On the tournaments you can blacklist one of the faction that is the most risky for your decks and implied strategy. It is awesome. There will never be a perfect balance in a game. It is better than it was but new cards equal new level of disbalance. And this is cyclic process. It will always be this way: more imbalance, less imbalance, more imbalance again. So game won't be perfectly balanced ever. It's my point.

Blacklisting is a tool to tune level of imbalance in game which could have a big impact on the ranked gameplay in general. What you get when faction blacklisting (1 faction) becomes available:
  • decks variety growth [you blacklist meta and since that you are not obliged to put in the deck every antimeta card you have. you just build your deck (deck you like) to perform your game plan (game plan you choose and not one you are forced to choose)]
  • when you blacklist factions/archetypes that totally destroy you, you always have possibility to win
  • blacklisting is a tool to tune level of imbalance
  • people who abuse OP factions/archetypes and like free MMR would think twice whether should they play this Dagon or Bran all day and all of the night
 
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I'd like to see blacklisting in casual and ranked. If you only do it in ranked, you can expect casual to be spammed with decks no one likes.

For now I would not want there to be more than one blacklisted faction. However when more factions are out, maybe a second blacklisting option will be worth considering at some point.
 
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In other words "balance" is a mystical, unachievable unicorn so if your deck gets railed by a certain deck everyone runs for faction A, because card balance isn't a thing, you should be able to avoid faction A. In a non-perfect world I suppose it makes sense. Given the existing state of this game, it's clear we're not in a perfect world.
 
I think blacklisting IS really what the game needs.
Also, when playing ranked, you must have at least 2 perfect decks, cause one could be banned.
I believe every player who has lets say rank 15 will not have a problem with that.
We will still face dagons and discards, but yes, we will be able to block faction we dont wanna play against.
 
Faction banning as stated in the vote means that you ban all the heroes in that faction , or only one hero ? . Because one faction can have the most played hero and the least played hero at a certain point in the game.

Even if it's all the faction heroes you won't achieve diversity because people will chose the next best thing. Like in your example Dagon or Bran. Thinking twice is on the other player as well. Should i ban Bran or Dagon (if you ban one you'll face the other). Plus chances increase for mirror matches because instead of being paired with 5 factions you only get paired with 4.

And another problem is about balance. Stats will have incomplete information so you might end up nerfing the wrong faction.

Rank should stay like it is, use the best tools available to rise to the top. That's applicable in every game, sports, etc. even if it's repetitive and boring.

I would not mind this in other game modes though.
 
i'll quote what i said on a similar post:


ranked mode is for competitive play, for people who want to min-max with the best decks they are capable of building; if you don't like this environment, i suggest playing unranked (is what i do now that i've reached rank 18, my original goal for the season)
 
RickMelethron;n9328681 said:
i'll quote what i said on a similar post:


ranked mode is for competitive play, for people who want to min-max with the best decks they are capable of building; if you don't like this environment, i suggest playing unranked (is what i do now that i've reached rank 18, my original goal for the season)

I don't like current environment's state. There is nothing competitive in current environment. True competition starts in point where you gain equal (~max close to it) chances with your opponent. Today true competiotion is possible only between few archetypes. Since we will never reach a point where factions/archetypes balance become optimal we need other tools to increase decks diversity in ranked.
 
vlsky;n9328881 said:
I don't like current environment's state. There is nothing competitive in current environment. True competition starts in point where you gain equal (~max close to it) chances with your opponent. Today true competiotion is possible only between few archetypes. Since we will never reach a point where factions/archetypes balance become optimal we need other tools to increase decks diversity in ranked.

"competitive" isn't about building your own random deck and hoping it will win against tier 1 decks at 4k MMR. if only one deck has a chance to beat others, and you want to be competitive, you'll have to play that one deck. ranked mode isn't about deck diversity, it's about the most efficient decks for climbing - and then the most efficient decks for a given MMR bracket

again, if you don't like playing the tier 1 decks of a given patch, stick to casual mode. basically what you're saying is that you don't like playing ranked, but you want to play ranked, so you want CDPR to screw over top tier decks in order for you to enjoy playing ranked. that would be silly, and it's never gonna happen if they have any common sense.

i, for one, dislike playing and facing swarm monsters wholeheartedly. once i got rank 18, which i wanted in order to unlock the border, i just swapped to casual mode and haven't stepped into ranked matches at all.
if i find myself facing a deck i dislike, such as spell decks and swarm, i just surrender and re-queue
 
I'm kinda hoping that this new ladder system will actually involve some kind of tournament mode ranked, where you get to band one of the x factions your opponents has under his belt. I love the idea, and I think it's pretty interesting in terms of competition, but it does require the players of that ladder to have at least x decks they will play competitively with. Hence why I believe it really suits a ladder exclusive to the players who reached high on the ladder, who'll have greater chances of having a bigger number of cards and knowledge of the competitive scene.

So, in other words, I agree with the idea, but only on a specific ladder, not on the regular one.
 
So gwent tournaments is not abount competition according to you? For me an essence of competitiveness is expressed in tournament. And folks have goddamn blacklist possibility in tournaments. Because they know their decks. They know opponents strong sides. They can assume risks from current meta state. All of this is a part of the game, it is a part of COMPETITION. Blacklist something that really benefits you. And not everyone can handle this well. It's just mean less RNG. It is not about "not competitive" anymore.

RickMelethron;n9328941 said:
ranked mode isn't about deck diversity, it's about the most efficient decks for climbing - and then the most efficient decks for a given MMR bracket
Agree. But who said that there should be only few strong decks? We have OP here. OP is a killer of competitiveness. You can't talk about competitiveness at all if balance is not OK. You are saying: "hey mate, take AK, and other one please take spoon. Fight guys! It's competition!". Is this competitive? Like this is something we should just accept like ours destiny. Game is on beta stage. When you have OP in game you are struggling with it instead of just accept it. There will be much more stronger decks if people can blacklist OP instead of waiting for fix months and months.

RickMelethron;n9328941 said:
if i find myself facing a deck i dislike, such as spell decks and swarm, i just surrender and re-queue
It's your right to play whatever you like. It's not the ultimate truth for everybody else. I just choose not to acccept everything that beta version of the game gives me.
 
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Skryba86;n9329171 said:
I'm kinda hoping that this new ladder system will actually involve some kind of tournament mode ranked, where you get to band one of the x factions your opponents has under his belt. I love the idea, and I think it's pretty interesting in terms of competition, but it does require the players of that ladder to have at least x decks they will play competitively with. Hence why I believe it really suits a ladder exclusive to the players who reached high on the ladder, who'll have greater chances of having a bigger number of cards and knowledge of the competitive scene.

So, in other words, I agree with the idea, but only on a specific ladder, not on the regular one.

a few years ago i suggested a "tournament mode" in the hearthstone forums; something similar in gwent would be great IMO, even though i'll probably not be taking part due to time constraints
 
vlsky;n9329211 said:
So gwent tournaments is not abount competition according to you? For me an essence of competitiveness is expressed in tournament. And folks have goddamn blacklist possibility in tournaments. Because they know their decks. They know opponents strong sides. They can assume risks from current meta state. All of this is a part of the game, it is a part of COMPETITION. Blacklist something that really benefits you. And not everyone can handle this well. It's just mean less RNG. It is not about "not competitive" anymore.

and tournaments require players to build 4 decks and win a best of 3. you're comparing apples to beefs

vlsky;n9329211 said:
Agree. But who said that there should be only few strong decks?
no one. if the devs can't manage to properly balance the game, take your complaints to them instead of artificially forcing people to not play tier 1 decks
if you have a broken arm, taking a painkiller might ease things up on the outside; but it's not gonna fix the problem, will it?

vlsky;n9329211 said:
We have OP here. OP is a killer of competitiveness. You can't talk about competitiveness at all if balance is not OK. You are saying: "hey mate, take AK, and other one please take spoon. Fight guys! It's competition!". Is this competitive? Like this is something we should just accept like ours destiny. Game is on beta stage. When you have OP in game you are struggling with it instead of just accept it. There will be much more stronger decks if people can blacklist OP instead of waiting for fix months and months.
i don't understand anything you tried to say here... my point is simple: "don't bring a knife to a gunfight"
or rather, "don't bring a nilfgaard to a monster meta"

if your opponents are playing uber-meta decks, play an uber-meta deck against them. you don't see 100m dashers asking the olympic committee to blacklist usain bolt, do you? nor soccer teams asking to blacklist barcelona in a tournament
 
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vlsky;n9329211 said:
You can't talk about competitiveness at all if balance is not OK. You are saying: "hey mate, take AK, and other one please take spoon. Fight guys! It's competition!".

This example is quite off. There is noone forcing anybody to take a specific weapon. It is your choice. If u choose a spoon for a fire-armed duel, knowing you will face an AK..... That's your risk and mostlikely mistake.

Edit:
Besides you can't compare Ranked ladder with a tournament - and i guess you refer to professional tournaments. Ranked is to get some practice, play games, rank up and thrive in terms of game knowledge, decision making, etc... In overall-gameplay generally spoken. Tournaments are for real. You are facing great players - being a great player yourself - dealing with a format that is definetly not the common ranked ladder and already fighting against your opponent in deckbuilding. Tournaments are to show off what u learned through ranked and scrims and prove that you are that good of a player.

I highly suggest you to try playing a community tournament yourself - there are lots some - even as a good, not great player, it's lots of fun and thrill. Although you will mostlikely not be able to ban factions/leaders/match-ups in the early stages of the tournament.

Some tournaments for those of u interested to checkout:
 
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Well, I can accept the idea that ranked does not have to be played by tournament rules. Then I just need new tournament-like game mode. And in my opinion tournament approach should be defining in game with cybersport ambitions. And this game mode should show player's skill level. Rank should be based on this game mode. Not on the Wheel Of Fortune that we have right now.
 
vlsky;n9329831 said:
Rank should be based on this game mode. Not on the Wheel Of Fortune that we have right now.

every card game will always have luck; if nothing else, the opening hand itself might determine who wins or loses a match. card games are about consistency, and ranked mode reflects how consistently you win games, based on your ability of adjusting to the meta and building your decks accordingly.

deck A might be a lot more powerful than deck B, but if deck A can only pull off the uber-combo every three matches and deck B can play effectively at every match, deck B will be better for ranked.
similarly; if deck A is uber-powerful but gets heavily countered by deck C, while deck B isn't as strong as deck A but is able to work around heavy counters, (along with having a good match up against the other decks in the meta), once again, deck B will be better for ranked.

a ranked mode based around tournaments would be painfully bad, for the simple fact that tournament matches might last well over half an hour. a "tournament mode" would be just that, a different game mode that revolves around tournament structure. if that's what they're adding for the people at 4.2k, i expect it to be successful; but making this the general ranked mode would alienate the vast majority of players
 
I voted no. The potential risks of facing all types of decks is one of the strategy challenges to the game in every mode. Basically:
vlsky;n9327341 said:
Should it be so?
Yes it should be. If you want to play some crazy inconsistent innovative and fun deck that's fine, but you have to play it against what others are bringing. Being able to say, well I will be weak against rez decks so no Skellige or NR would entirely unbalance the game. It would probably also lead to less variety in the decks you would see.
 
I don't think blacklisting is a good idea instead i'd prefer to see against who i will be fighting and have an option which deck to use. Random matchmaking is so annoying.
 
For Casual

For casual, I would like to see in future added in game a way to choose what enemy faction you wish to play against. That's why I play casual, to avoid some enemies I don't wish to face.
 
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If you're going to be allowed to blacklist opponents, you should be rewarded less for games than someone who hasn't blacklisted anyone.
 
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