Feel free to look for my earlier posts on these forums I've been making past couple days. Character level is completely superfluous.
You can have character progression by merely updating skills/attributes/etc via collected xp.
The fact that X amount of collected XP makes you Level Y is irrelevant.
The problems arise when game states that you must have lvl Y in order to access this feature, area, weapon, etc. This is non-immersive.
Why not? By all means, wield it. But be so terrible at using it that you would rather take something else instead. Unless we talk about you literally not being able to use it (as in: not strong enough to lift it, etc.).I agree that level requirements are bogus in most games, but with one caveat. I think that characters should not be able to wield the strongest weapon in the game without certain skills.
We’re moderating these comments pretty heavily right now, as expected. A lot of the same arguments keep coming up, in comments we delete and in those that remain. So I’m going to do something I’ll regret and respond to some of the most common, to hopefully move the conversation forward or at least stop others from having to make the same comment a dozen of times in response to a dozen different people.
– Criticism is not censorship.
– The article spends a great deal of time talking about all creative aspects of the game, including art, characters, mechanics, and more. The discussion of race and representation is, in terms of word count, quite small, and in any case inseperable from those other elements. If we had spent the entire article talking about race in the demo, that would have been equally valid.
– We are not calling CDPR racist or Cyberpunk 2077 racist. The article doesn’t even contain that word.
– We’re saying that the demo that was put in front of us, as a representation of the game (which is already on sale in pre-orders, as others have noted), didn’t do a great job of depicting nuance, whether ideological, cultural or human.
– You might feel that CDPR deserve the benefit of the doubt. Others feel differently. I have my view. Matt presumably has his, though I won’t put words in his mouth. Hopefully this article gave you some detail and tools to make up your own mind either now or when you play the full game.
– No one is arguing that the gangs should be ethnically diverse, necessarily (though the developer notes that at least one of them is). Matt wishes they were more interesting explorations of the ideas that lie within transhumanism. Beyond that, the context around the gangs is what matters more: who is the player character; how do you interact with the people in gangs or of different ethnicities; are there examples of those ethnicities present in the game who /aren’t/ in the gamgs; are the gang members humanised or mere cannon fodder for you to punch or kill, etc. etc. Saying, “But what about the real life Mafia!” is a poor reduction of what’s being discussed.
Sorry, not to dismiss your (frankly vague) complaint, but why do you think this would be the right thread to voice your concerns?Did The dev team see this article yet or are they ignoring the community????
weak gunplay ???
serioualy i want an answer from the team.
Sorry, not to dismiss your (frankly vague) complaint, but why do you think this would be the right thread to voice your concerns?
This is about a very specific topic, which isn't "weak gunplay".
RPS is a horrible site IMO, the reviews of IGN and PC Gamer are far superior. They're one of the sites that made that drama about trans people.Then with a kind heart since I cant create a new thread, could you point me to the correct thread to put the above info and let the dev team see it or at least make them aware of this ?
Before I launch into a rant, the usual disclaimer: Still extremely excited by 75-80% of what I've seen, love love loving the freedom of both story and gameplay choice, loving the sound of perks/skills impacting dialogue, loving what I've heard about the stealth, FREAKING INFATUATED with the world itself and the thought of exploring it. Moving on.
Ironically enough, D&D with all its limits is at least is consistent with the level of its bestiary. Aside from "heroic monsters" and special NPCs, every monster in D&D is always presented with the same specific stats, so when you meet a goblin or a troll or a Beholder you'll always know what sort of threat level they present regardless of when you meet them during a campaign.Enemy levels are almost certainly a thing, because DnD still rules. Such is life.
Yeah. We'll definitely see.Enemy levels are almost certainly a thing, because DnD still rules. Such is life.
If we are mildly lucky, mods will make it such that you and the enemies take "realistic" levels of damage both.
If we are more lucky, it will be a setting in 2077.
That would actually make more sense as people might ignore a nobody but be willing to talk to (i.e give missions to) someone who has some orbs to swing.
Wants it to be a RPG but doesn't want levels.....make it make sense.
Its a game based on a pen and paper game with a level based role system. But think its bad for the game.
Actually, a Bethesda level system would make perfect sense in Cyberpunk, because it's based on skill levels, not overall levels.Yeah, or that'd give you a global "level like" feel about an npc, if you'd piss a lvl 1 street cred punk vs a lvl 20, you'd expect the one with more street cred to be able to call for backup, etc...
Dialog wise, it would give you a straight idea of your chances to make pressure on him (at low street level you'd have less chances to blackmail a ceo obviously), I really hope it's something like this, not a bethesda level system which would make no sense in Cyberpunk.
Good post. I agree. There will (eventually) be mod support, even if only through community designed tools. But as you say, that could take a very long time. And even then, it does nothing to help the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of console players out there.Before I launch into a rant, the usual disclaimer: Still extremely excited by 75-80% of what I've seen, love love loving the freedom of both story and gameplay choice, loving the sound of perks/skills impacting dialogue, loving what I've heard about the stealth, FREAKING INFATUATED with the world itself and the thought of exploring it. Moving on.
Anyway, I've been a bit disappointed in this whole idea (topic) for a while. Not, as others have pointed out, because I have delusions of grandeur and expect CDPR to implement every goofy idea any forum user has. Longevity/"BUT I'M A TRUE FAN!" is meaningless. All that matters is what the dev team wants. Instead, I'm disappointed because I genuinely do not believe the system they are going for is in any way necessary. Bullet sponges, except where it makes sense based on cyberware (and don't try to tell me everybody in the game is going to have subdermal armor), are extremely irritating and immersion breaking for me. Level-gated gear, even more so.
To make matters worse, even if we look at it from a non mechanics-fan viewpoint, all CDPR has been willing to say on the subject of being forced to wear ugly gear based on stats is "we're keeping it in mind." Really? That's good to know, I guess, since people have been expressing their worries about that for years now and the game is 10 months from release.
I dunno. Maybe I'll be surprised.
@Sardukhar says mods may fix it, but we don't even have confirmed mod support (and some users on this very forum are aggressively against the idea), and the mods that do de-level the Witcher 3 took ages to make. I'm not interested in waiting years for some generous modder to build CDPR's modding tools for them, and then implement an awesome unlevelled progression system based on that. He would be redesigning the core of the game. Not a fair expectation.
I don't know what the solution is. Difficulty options, maybe, but that probably just makes it easier for you to die, and the enemies even more bullet spongy. There has been no word about any sort of "realism" mode, and even if there was, how the heck would that play with enemies having levels?
Much the same here.I dunno. We'll have to see what CDPR does. They are old 2020 players but they still have an audience to cater to and -already- have SO MUCH to explain to them about his new exciting system. I wouldn't blame them for using a DnD style level system.