Fatalities

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I -think- she means "the Nintendo crowd" as being the same people who played arcade brawlers and such simple video games, whose tastes are more along a Mario Bros/ Mortal Kombat lineage, as opposed to those of us Elders, who think Pong is neat and enjoy some PnP complexity. The blood is in our imaginations, where it belongs.

Not that I care about blood either way, as long as it's not pink or spraying great gouts. I just want a sense of visceral combat.
 
I -think- she means "the Nintendo crowd" as being the same people who played arcade brawlers and such simple video games, whose tastes are more along a Mario Bros/ Mortal Kombat lineage, as opposed to those of us Elders, who think Pong is neat and enjoy some PnP complexity. The blood is in our imaginations, where it belongs.

Not that I care about blood either way, as long as it's not pink or spraying great gouts. I just want a sense of visceral combat.

Okay, I get it. Still, reading you bring up MK and Nintendo in the same sentence makes me think of sweat rather than blood XD Saunality!!!

But anyway while I think it's still easier to compare say 8/16 bit era JRPGs to modern WRPGs those arcadey games I see as being a little far from anything that CP2077 can be. Still they could use some eclecticism, we've said we don't want to be imputing combinations like those in a fighting game etc, but if some simpler, more accessible bits of gameplay can bridge the PnP and the videogame experiences, they may be welcome.
 
Ahh, a good chance to make my own fatalities. I don't want anything too over the top, but I wanna be brutal! :D Breaking a neck isn't all that easy, they make it look like just a flick of the wrist in the movies. Granted if you have some cyborg arms then it should be easy to punch a hole into someone's skull as well as break the neck. I want gritty brutal moves, kind of like in The Last of Us.

Fatality 1: Left shin to the head which dazes, followed by right shin to the head which makes them stumble to the side, if they go down then knee right knee into the face until their face is nothing but a bloody mess.

Fatality 2: Both thumbs pressed into eyes and the back of their head smashed into either a wall or the floor, either one will do the job.

Fatality 3: Head butt to the nose followed straight up by a bite to the neck, spit out the flesh and dig your fingers into the wound, try opening it up to make them bleed faster.

Fatality 4: Fist to the neck, grab their head and bring it low enough to send your knee into their nose or mouth, either breaking their nose or their teeth, at the very least loosening a few. If needed, send your knee into their face again until they go down, and then stomp on their head until they're completely still.

Fatality 5: From behind, slam your knife in just above their collar bone and bring the knife across just to make sure they stay dead.

Fatality 6: When down or crouched in front of an enemy, slam your knife into their knee or thigh, send your fist into their balls or gut if they don't have any, and tackle them down to the ground and beat their face in until fully satisfied.

Fatality 7: From the side, slip your knife in where their rib cage ends, pull the blade out and step around so you're facing them, and slip your blade straight into their throat.

Fatality 8: Start off facing them, and slash horizontally towards their eyes using a reverse knife grip. Without hesitation, grab the back of their head, pull them close and send that knife down into their shoulder, collar bone, anywhere you can get to until they go down. Not elegant but it'll kill.

#imagination
 
Noooooooo! I hate lasers...

How about now?

 
I'm all for gore and a wide choice of fighting style, but I doubt fatality would fit in the game.
Look at the Splatterhouse remake, there were some kind of fatality there, and in the end, you just spend the whole game bashing enemies and doing the same fatalites again and again...
The "create your fatality" is good on paper, but just look at how shitty it worked in Mortal Kombat : Armageddon, I doubt CDPR could come with something better.

Something in the vein of "sneaking behind XXX and slicing his throat/breaking his neck" like in usual spy games would be perfect, no need to beat the guy to pulp with an useless animation, when you can give him a headshot or finish him with your rippers (some kind of wolverine's like blade), it's supposed to be and FEEL realistic, sure, if you killed a bastard who you wasted all your ammo over and screwed almost all your life bar, it's always good to be able to unleash your frustration over his dead body.

As much as i love Mortal Kombat, and fighting games in general, I love learning new combos, learning new fighting style, figure out how to tacticaly use a character in a combat, etc...

Cyberpunk isn't a beat'em all or a fighting game, no need for "combos" (or just a few attack button with some pre-made combos linked to a specific fighting style), usualy it isn't smart to bring your fists in a knife/gun fight, mostly when everyone wear a gun around you, except if they go in the Shenmue way:
Bringing a whole fighting system in the game, with combo, specials, balanced fighting style, etc... like a real fighting game (but still, Shenmue was done by the guys behind Virtua Fighter, so it helped a lot), If they're able to handle it, a system like this would be perfect, requiring some practice, more than stupid "1 button mashing", but I doubt they'll go this far.

Back on fatalities, I don't really see the point actually, sure gore have to be there, it's a part of cyberpunk, if I shot at point blank in someone's head, i want to see it explode, being able to torn an arm apart if I shot in it, even guts if I slice his belly open with a monoblade, you know, nothing "over the top", but realistic, just how ugly a bullet wound has to be, look at some video on the war, urban guerrilla, gang execution, usualy, they don't try to kill all "i-am-an-overstyled-badass", they know they risk their lives, it's nothing personal, it's just "blam blam" you get shot, you fall, you bleed, you die.
If the game is mature and want to have a "realistic, hard Sci Fi" vide, it would be nice to use the death in a mature way, instead.
It's not "Zelda" where you have to bash waves of monster who bleeds rainbows, or "Call of Mone...Duty", where you can shot a bullet in someone and no blood, no emotion, it's just so "bland".
Here it's the "real life" (well, you see what i mean lol), if you take a life, it has to mean something, not just "be my next target", but more "come on dude, you just killed an human being", the fatality is, IMO too much "for the show", it needs to feel raw.

In the pnp, it's well explained that real fight aren't like in the movies where two guys can make a gun fight with rocket launcher, here, you'd need to be scared to go fighting, pissing your pants as bullets fly by and when you shot the guy in front of you, it's not supposed to be "cool", but something ugly you had to do, when a cyberpsycho freaks out and goes on a rampage in a Mall, it's not "random NPC" who get killed, it's terrorised peoples, running for their lives and who'll end burned or hacked in a body bag.

Not saying i want to turn it in a "psycho" level of sickness, but just make it feel sick to end a life, we're so much desensitized with all those FPS, who try to make the death so "bland", like if it was a peacefull "game over" screen.
If Cyberpunk want to show a desesperate world where people are freaked out, and the world is a dangerous place, it has to be a cruel and sick place to be, when you kill someone, just the fact to blow his brain out has to have some "weight" to it, not just "congrat, you earn 10xp", just something reallistic, not over the top, so you can still make a rampage in the arasaka buildings, but keeping in mind you just shooting at peoples like you.

Well, that's how i see the "violence level" in cyberpunk, if it's too bland, all the "violent" side will go away, and if it's too violent, it's end in a cheesy gore-porn, It just need to find the right middle.
But Fatalities? I doubt it would fit in.
I'd be more in special animation if you kill someone with a special weapon, like showing him running as he burns alive if you shot him with a flammethrower, etc.... but no "forced animation" if you see what i mean.
 
Cyberpunk isn't a beat'em all or a fighting game, no need for "combos"...
It's not "Zelda" ... or "Call of Duty"...
In the pnp, it's well explained that real fight aren't like in the movies ... it's not supposed to be "cool", but something ugly you had to do...
If Cyberpunk want to show a desesperate world where people are freaked out, and the world is a dangerous place, it has to be a cruel and sick place to be, when you kill someone, just the fact to blow his brain out has to have some "weight" to it, not just "congrat, you earn 10xp", just something reallistic, not over the top...
... if it's too violent, it's ... cheesy gore-porn...

I REALLY hope combat is PnP Cyberpunk 2020 dangerous.
None of the "you are hit for 10 HP, 57 more to go" or the newer shooter style "you are hit, duck behind cover for 10 seconds and all wounds heal automatically", or anything else if the kind.
Short of a full borg conversion you can't be "bulletproof", there are no "healing potions", "stims", or what-have-you's, you get hurt in a fight you need to go to a hospital and spend days or weeks recovering. Even the Nanosurgeons only double the body's natural healing rate.
Combat should be your last choice option because it's friggin DANGEROUS !

Ya know, one thing I'd like to see is having the characters "pay rent" and "buy groceries", so in addition to your medical bill you have to shell out a few weeks worth of rent payments and and grocery bills when you get hurt.
Having to pay some sort of "living expenses" would go a long way toward making the game more "real" and be a subtle way of discouraging "shoot your way to victory" gameplay. Because Cyberpunk is NOT (at least I pray to god it's not) a "shooter".
 
Really, making it a shooter in the spirit of the early Tom Clancy games with shades of Deus Ex 1 would solve the problem of dangerousity.
 
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I'm not signed up for a shooter.

It`s true. As far as gameplay go, there`s very few games more unforgiving then early Rainbow Six, ARMA, and the likes.

The simplest and best way to depict a fictional world is to depict is as a live action game.

Instead of with layers of abstraction.
 
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The simplest and best way to depict a fictional world...
Gonna disagree on your assertion of "simplest and best," as that is, of course, subject to opinion. Some people might say an isometric view is the simplest and best way to represent a fictional world. Some might say turn based combat, like Final Fantasy VII.

I'm not against FPS / TPS combat, as long as the game doesn't revolve around said combat. If the crux of the game is to get from one "shooting level" to the next, I'll be sorely disappointed.
 
I'd prefer isometric, but I'm 99.99% sure that isn't in the cards so it's a case of would FPS or TPS work best.

Never played much of any FPS shooter games because I learned very quickly that for me they're an exercise in futility, frustration, and a total waste of time and money.
I've tried a few, and they always get tossed in the trash or given away to a friend.

Not that it's relevant to Cyberpunk but I've had the same experience with RTS games.
 
Gonna disagree on your assertion of "simplest and best," as that is, of course, subject to opinion. Some people might say an isometric view is the simplest and best way to represent a fictional world. Some might say turn based combat, like Final Fantasy VII.

I'm not against FPS / TPS combat, as long as the game doesn't revolve around said combat. If the crux of the game is to get from one "shooting level" to the next, I'll be sorely disappointed.

CDPR have stated that 'conventional combat' will be important, but there will also be many different elements as well. I expect to see some ingenious alternatives.

They also said that player skill will be very important, not just character skill.
 
I'd prefer isometric, but I'm 99.99% sure that isn't in the cards so it's a case of would FPS or TPS work best.

Never played much of any FPS shooter games because I learned very quickly that for me they're an exercise in futility, frustration, and a total waste of time and money.
I've tried a few, and they always get tossed in the trash or given away to a friend.

Not that it's relevant to Cyberpunk but I've had the same experience with RTS games.
It depends on which shooters.

If you take DX1 for example.

95% (if not all) of the enemy encounters could be solved by stealth or by a timely grenade.
In games like ARMA, to take on 20 enemies is plausible BUT hazardous in the extreme.

In CP2077, a techie and such could just rig some explosives to a car or an IED beneath a manhole, or a marksman could stalk his target and posiition himself at a safe distance. That`s what I`d expect from the game.

Or simply laying poisoned food around or something of this sort.

See? No reflexes involved. Just plain old thinking and creativity.
 
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It depends on which shooters.

If you take DX1 for example.

95% (if not all) of the enemy encounters could be solved by stealth or by a timely grenade.
In games like ARMA, to take on 20 enemies is plausible BUT hazardous in the extreme.

In CP2077, a techie and such could just rig some explosives to a car or an IED beneath a manhole, or a marksman could stalk his target and posiition himself at a safe distance. That`s what I`d expect from the game.

Or simply laying poisoned food around or something of this sort.

See? No reflexes involved. Just plain old thinking and creativity.

Hmmm... poisoning food... Don't see why this couldn't be done in a first or third person perspective game, so good idea. In System Shock you could drag an item from your inventory into the 3d view, even directing it to a concrete place in the world to make both combine or interact. You could drag an icepick (an autohacking tool) into a hackable vending machine to hack it, or drag a dead battery into an electric current to charge it. Maybe you could be in the kitchen of a restaurant and drag poison from your inventory onto a dish and have someone eat it and get poisoned.
 
I REALLY hope combat is PnP Cyberpunk 2020 dangerous.
None of the "you are hit for 10 HP, 57 more to go" or the newer shooter style "you are hit, duck behind cover for 10 seconds and all wounds heal automatically", or anything else if the kind.
Short of a full borg conversion you can't be "bulletproof", there are no "healing potions", "stims", or what-have-you's, you get hurt in a fight you need to go to a hospital and spend days or weeks recovering. Even the Nanosurgeons only double the body's natural healing rate.
Combat should be your last choice option because it's friggin DANGEROUS !

Ya know, one thing I'd like to see is having the characters "pay rent" and "buy groceries", so in addition to your medical bill you have to shell out a few weeks worth of rent payments and and grocery bills when you get hurt.
Having to pay some sort of "living expenses" would go a long way toward making the game more "real" and be a subtle way of discouraging "shoot your way to victory" gameplay. Because Cyberpunk is NOT (at least I pray to god it's not) a "shooter".

Yep that was my point of view, Cyberpunk needs some dangerous fights, because it's a part of the mecanics, if you want to be immersed and worried about your survival, you need to actualy be affraid to go shooting.
This and some "graphic" violence to give a gritty look to it.
 
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