Actually, I think he;s talking about the .30 Automag 3
The 44 automag is already in the rules If I recall
The 44 automag is already in the rules If I recall
it was apparently in cp 2013. interesting note, it was listed as UR
.44 Automag P +1 J P 4d6 (.44 C) 7 2 UR 50m 250 CP13
.44 Automag P +1 J P 4d6 (.44 C) 7 2 UR 50m 250 CP13
Kel-Tec Weapons
I'll rate most Kel Tec weapons at ST reliability. People's mileage may vary, but generally if well maintained they work just fine, but they could be be better. It could be argued that the ST-rated guns are 60% likely to be UR out of the box and require about 50eb and an hour of a Weaponsmithing time (Diff 10) to 'fluff and buff' them back to ST reliability. Further reliability increases work per the normal weapon mod rules, however.
Prices are based off of MSRP /2 to convert to eb, then tweaked by a little just to make them different. A lot of kels have the same pricepoint but games are about balance. Old guns always seem to be fairly cheap in CP
Availability i'm putting mostly at Poor. Even when they're being produced it can be hard to get your hands on a kel-tec because of their popularity, but of course with these being old guns in 2020 they're gonna be harder to find.
Light Pistols
P-32 & P3-AT
P-32: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 1d6+1 (.32C) -- 7 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 140eb
P-3AT: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 2d6 (.380C) -- 6 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 150eb
The P-32 and P-3AT are both incredibly small so-called 'mouseguns' so small they can be concealed almost anywhere, but with a reasonably lethal punch. The P-3AT was later copied by Ruger as the LCP, but early runs of the LCP were less reliable and prone to going off when dropped, not something that the P-3AT suffers from. Specialized lasers were made by several companies that preserve the gun's pocket profile while enhancing accuracy. Just use standard rules (100eb, +1WA). The newer model P-32s look almost exactly like the P-3AT.
PMR-30
PMR-30: P -- +1 -- J -- P -- 1d6+1 (.22 Mag C) -- 30 -- 2 -- ST -- 75m -- 200eb
Sometimes called the Poor-Man's Five-seveN, it took the same concept as the Five-seveN (jam as many small, high-velocity rounds as possible into a small pistol), but used the weaker and cheaper .22 magnum round as opposed to FN's exclusive 5.7mm round. The result is a fun novelty but not a major threat. Comes with fiber-optic sights, a bracket for mounting a scope or red-dot, and an underbarrel rail for laser or flashlight
Medium Pistols
PF-9
PF-9: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 2d6+1 (9mmC) -- 7 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 160eb
The smallest, lightest, most compact 9mm handgun ever made...until Ruger copied Kel again with the LC-9, which is essentially the same gun, but with a higher price tag. The PF-9 has an integral rail under the barrel for mounting lasers or flashlights if you desire.
P-11 Family
P-11: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 2d6+1 (9mmC) -- 12 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 170eb
The P-11 holds the distinction of being the smallest double-stacked 9mm handgun ever made, only slightly larger than the PF-9, but it lacks the integral rail, making lasers harder but not impossible to mount.
P-357/P-40: P -- -1 -- P -- R -- 2d6+3 (357 sigC/.40 C) -- 10 -- 2 -- UR -- 50m -- 200eb
The P-357 and P-40 are both drop-in conversion kits for the P-11, replacing the barrel/block and slide and using a different mgazine. They were available only for a limited time and were probably not as reliable as the standard P-11 and are hard to find even now
Very Heavy Pistols
PLR-16 Family
PLR-22: P -- +2 -- J* or L -- P -- 1d6 (.22C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 100m -- 200eb
PLR-16: P -- +1 -- J* or L -- R -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 100m -- 400eb -- BOD MIN: 10
The P-22 and P-16 are pistols made from cut down AR-15 actions. They kinda stretch the J-rating with a short mag in, you should probably have a Bod 8 to really pull it off. Anyone else, or with a 30 round mag in it's L. Because these are made from AR-15 actions, they're relatively easy for a gunsmith with the right parts to convert to autofire weapons (-25% to the cost and time of autofire mods). Those that aren;t rigged for auto are soemtimes given an Electrothermal enhancement, making them a popular jacket gun for full borgs (Bod 14 for the ETE version)
I'll rate most Kel Tec weapons at ST reliability. People's mileage may vary, but generally if well maintained they work just fine, but they could be be better. It could be argued that the ST-rated guns are 60% likely to be UR out of the box and require about 50eb and an hour of a Weaponsmithing time (Diff 10) to 'fluff and buff' them back to ST reliability. Further reliability increases work per the normal weapon mod rules, however.
Prices are based off of MSRP /2 to convert to eb, then tweaked by a little just to make them different. A lot of kels have the same pricepoint but games are about balance. Old guns always seem to be fairly cheap in CP
Availability i'm putting mostly at Poor. Even when they're being produced it can be hard to get your hands on a kel-tec because of their popularity, but of course with these being old guns in 2020 they're gonna be harder to find.
Light Pistols
P-32 & P3-AT
P-32: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 1d6+1 (.32C) -- 7 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 140eb
P-3AT: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 2d6 (.380C) -- 6 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 150eb
The P-32 and P-3AT are both incredibly small so-called 'mouseguns' so small they can be concealed almost anywhere, but with a reasonably lethal punch. The P-3AT was later copied by Ruger as the LCP, but early runs of the LCP were less reliable and prone to going off when dropped, not something that the P-3AT suffers from. Specialized lasers were made by several companies that preserve the gun's pocket profile while enhancing accuracy. Just use standard rules (100eb, +1WA). The newer model P-32s look almost exactly like the P-3AT.
PMR-30
PMR-30: P -- +1 -- J -- P -- 1d6+1 (.22 Mag C) -- 30 -- 2 -- ST -- 75m -- 200eb
Sometimes called the Poor-Man's Five-seveN, it took the same concept as the Five-seveN (jam as many small, high-velocity rounds as possible into a small pistol), but used the weaker and cheaper .22 magnum round as opposed to FN's exclusive 5.7mm round. The result is a fun novelty but not a major threat. Comes with fiber-optic sights, a bracket for mounting a scope or red-dot, and an underbarrel rail for laser or flashlight
Medium Pistols
PF-9
PF-9: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 2d6+1 (9mmC) -- 7 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 160eb
The smallest, lightest, most compact 9mm handgun ever made...until Ruger copied Kel again with the LC-9, which is essentially the same gun, but with a higher price tag. The PF-9 has an integral rail under the barrel for mounting lasers or flashlights if you desire.
P-11 Family
P-11: P -- -1 -- P -- P -- 2d6+1 (9mmC) -- 12 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 170eb
The P-11 holds the distinction of being the smallest double-stacked 9mm handgun ever made, only slightly larger than the PF-9, but it lacks the integral rail, making lasers harder but not impossible to mount.
P-357/P-40: P -- -1 -- P -- R -- 2d6+3 (357 sigC/.40 C) -- 10 -- 2 -- UR -- 50m -- 200eb
The P-357 and P-40 are both drop-in conversion kits for the P-11, replacing the barrel/block and slide and using a different mgazine. They were available only for a limited time and were probably not as reliable as the standard P-11 and are hard to find even now
Very Heavy Pistols
PLR-16 Family
PLR-22: P -- +2 -- J* or L -- P -- 1d6 (.22C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 100m -- 200eb
PLR-16: P -- +1 -- J* or L -- R -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 100m -- 400eb -- BOD MIN: 10
The P-22 and P-16 are pistols made from cut down AR-15 actions. They kinda stretch the J-rating with a short mag in, you should probably have a Bod 8 to really pull it off. Anyone else, or with a 30 round mag in it's L. Because these are made from AR-15 actions, they're relatively easy for a gunsmith with the right parts to convert to autofire weapons (-25% to the cost and time of autofire mods). Those that aren;t rigged for auto are soemtimes given an Electrothermal enhancement, making them a popular jacket gun for full borgs (Bod 14 for the ETE version)
Shotguns
KSG: SHG -- 0 -- L -- P -- 4d6 (12ga) -- 7 & 7 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 600eb
The KSG is an innovateive dual-magazine pump-action Bullpup shotgun. The KSG features a pair if side-by-side underbarrel tube-mags, each with a 7-round capacity. the gun has a switch allowing you to select which magazine you're firing from at will, making it popular with cops and solos who like using specialized ammo. The gun is also completely ambidextrous, with controls on both sides and a central downward ejection system.
Rifles
SUB-2000
SUB-2000: RIF -- 0 -- J or L -- P -- 2d6+1 or +3 (9mmC or .40C) -- 17 or 15 -- 2 -- ST -- 150m -- 200eb
A dirt-simple folding carbine chambered for 9mm or .40 pistol rounds. The SUB-2000 hinges just forward of the action, allowing the user to fold the entire gun in half, allowing you to stash it in a jacket. Even unfolded it's under 30 inches, allowing most people to stash it under a long coat. Unforting the gun is a quick and painless process requiring a single action. If the user wants to take a Snap-Shot penalty he can attempt to 'flick' the gun out and unfold it and fire in the same action. Unlike a regular snapshot though, this gives no initiative bonus.
SU-16 Family
SU-16 A&B
SU-16A/B: RIF -- +1/+2* -- L or N -- P -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 400m -- 350eb
The Alpha and Bravo models both feature a sort of hybrid folding stock where the grip and stock both fold forward, rendering it impossible to fire while folded (in fact, the magazine has to be removed because the trigger guard ends up inside the mag well. They can be unfolded and made ready in about 2 actions (one to unfold, 1 to reload). Good news is that the stock has brackets to hold a pair of 10-shot magazines beyond the one currently inserted in the mag well. The gun also features a foregrip that becomes a folding bipod, allowing for increased accuracy at Medium and Long ranges when you;ve got something to rest it on (see WA above). They were marketed as the ideal backpacker/survival gun. For the record, the Bravo is slightly shoter and lighter than the Alpha, but not enough to make much difference game-wise. The whole beast folds to about 26 inches but has a nice long barrel and good stability. L conceal when folded, NA when ready for action. Like the PLR-pistols, ALL SU-16 guns can be converted to auto for 25% less than normal.
SU-16 C&D
SU-16C: RIF -- +1/-1/+2* -- L or N -- P -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 400m -- 400eb
A later version of the earlier A and B models, the Charlie features a true folding stock, allowing it to be fired while collapsed (at -1WA). It features the same folding bipod foregrip as its older brothers, allowing it to hold its own as a long range weapon (Stock needs to be unfolded to get the bipod bonus). Unfortunately the skeletal nature of the stock which allows it to be folded with the mag still in means that it cannot be used to hold backup mags like the Alpha and Bavo models. It takes one action to fold or unfold the stock, and like the SUB-2000 you can make a snap-shot to unfold and fire in one action.
SU-16D: RIF -- +1/-1 -- J* or L -- R -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 300m -- 500eb
A shorter-barreled 'assault' model of the SU-16C, the Delta model has a shorter barrel and replaces the bipod with a tactical quadrail (allowing for underbarrel weapons, lasers, lights, grips, whatever). Like the C it has a folding stock, allowing it to be fired while collapsed at -1WA. Unlike the C, the overall length is such that even unfolded, it can be stashed under a Long Coat, and someone with a bod of 8 or greater can stash it in a Jacket if using 10-round magazines. Larger magazines or smaller people drop the concealment rating to L. This is an extremely popular model for conversion and is easy like the others. Some particularly burly individuals and borgs like to ETE mod this gun, giving them a high-powered Jacket weapon (If you have Bod 10 (regular) or 14 (ETE) you can even use it witht he stock folded as a Pistol if you so desire, but you'd be better served with the P-16, which isn;t hindered by the weight of the folded stock throwing its aim off.
RFB Family
RFB Hunter: RIF -- +2 -- L* or N -- R -- 6d6+2 (7.62 NATO C) -- 30 -- 2 -- ST -- 1200m -- 1000eb
RFB Carbine: RIF -- +1 -- L -- R -- 6d6+2 (7.62 NATO C) -- 30 -- 2 -- ST -- 600m -- 900eb
The RFB was the first truly ambidextrous 7.62mm bullpup ever made. It features controls on both sides and a revolutionary front-eject which pushes the spent shells up and forward, out through a port above the barrel. The hunter version features a full 24" barrel in a remarkably small 31" package. Anyone with a Bod of 8 or greater can stash this monster under their long coat. The Carbine version uses a shorter 18" barrel, cutting its overall length down to 24" but is still rated for a remarkably long 600m practical range. Both use FAL-style drop-free magazines that do not need to be tilted in, threaded barrels, and a top rail for optics. The RFB is hard to find on the open mrket because it's highly coveted by snipers and hitmen who typically treat it to an ETE upgrade or silencer, some nice optics and a smartlink and turn it into an incredibly deadly long-range killing machine.
KSG: SHG -- 0 -- L -- P -- 4d6 (12ga) -- 7 & 7 -- 2 -- ST -- 50m -- 600eb
The KSG is an innovateive dual-magazine pump-action Bullpup shotgun. The KSG features a pair if side-by-side underbarrel tube-mags, each with a 7-round capacity. the gun has a switch allowing you to select which magazine you're firing from at will, making it popular with cops and solos who like using specialized ammo. The gun is also completely ambidextrous, with controls on both sides and a central downward ejection system.
Rifles
SUB-2000
SUB-2000: RIF -- 0 -- J or L -- P -- 2d6+1 or +3 (9mmC or .40C) -- 17 or 15 -- 2 -- ST -- 150m -- 200eb
A dirt-simple folding carbine chambered for 9mm or .40 pistol rounds. The SUB-2000 hinges just forward of the action, allowing the user to fold the entire gun in half, allowing you to stash it in a jacket. Even unfolded it's under 30 inches, allowing most people to stash it under a long coat. Unforting the gun is a quick and painless process requiring a single action. If the user wants to take a Snap-Shot penalty he can attempt to 'flick' the gun out and unfold it and fire in the same action. Unlike a regular snapshot though, this gives no initiative bonus.
SU-16 Family
SU-16 A&B
SU-16A/B: RIF -- +1/+2* -- L or N -- P -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 400m -- 350eb
The Alpha and Bravo models both feature a sort of hybrid folding stock where the grip and stock both fold forward, rendering it impossible to fire while folded (in fact, the magazine has to be removed because the trigger guard ends up inside the mag well. They can be unfolded and made ready in about 2 actions (one to unfold, 1 to reload). Good news is that the stock has brackets to hold a pair of 10-shot magazines beyond the one currently inserted in the mag well. The gun also features a foregrip that becomes a folding bipod, allowing for increased accuracy at Medium and Long ranges when you;ve got something to rest it on (see WA above). They were marketed as the ideal backpacker/survival gun. For the record, the Bravo is slightly shoter and lighter than the Alpha, but not enough to make much difference game-wise. The whole beast folds to about 26 inches but has a nice long barrel and good stability. L conceal when folded, NA when ready for action. Like the PLR-pistols, ALL SU-16 guns can be converted to auto for 25% less than normal.
SU-16 C&D
SU-16C: RIF -- +1/-1/+2* -- L or N -- P -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 400m -- 400eb
A later version of the earlier A and B models, the Charlie features a true folding stock, allowing it to be fired while collapsed (at -1WA). It features the same folding bipod foregrip as its older brothers, allowing it to hold its own as a long range weapon (Stock needs to be unfolded to get the bipod bonus). Unfortunately the skeletal nature of the stock which allows it to be folded with the mag still in means that it cannot be used to hold backup mags like the Alpha and Bavo models. It takes one action to fold or unfold the stock, and like the SUB-2000 you can make a snap-shot to unfold and fire in one action.
SU-16D: RIF -- +1/-1 -- J* or L -- R -- 5d6 (5.56 NATO C) -- 10 or 30 -- 2 -- VR -- 300m -- 500eb
A shorter-barreled 'assault' model of the SU-16C, the Delta model has a shorter barrel and replaces the bipod with a tactical quadrail (allowing for underbarrel weapons, lasers, lights, grips, whatever). Like the C it has a folding stock, allowing it to be fired while collapsed at -1WA. Unlike the C, the overall length is such that even unfolded, it can be stashed under a Long Coat, and someone with a bod of 8 or greater can stash it in a Jacket if using 10-round magazines. Larger magazines or smaller people drop the concealment rating to L. This is an extremely popular model for conversion and is easy like the others. Some particularly burly individuals and borgs like to ETE mod this gun, giving them a high-powered Jacket weapon (If you have Bod 10 (regular) or 14 (ETE) you can even use it witht he stock folded as a Pistol if you so desire, but you'd be better served with the P-16, which isn;t hindered by the weight of the folded stock throwing its aim off.
RFB Family
RFB Hunter: RIF -- +2 -- L* or N -- R -- 6d6+2 (7.62 NATO C) -- 30 -- 2 -- ST -- 1200m -- 1000eb
RFB Carbine: RIF -- +1 -- L -- R -- 6d6+2 (7.62 NATO C) -- 30 -- 2 -- ST -- 600m -- 900eb
The RFB was the first truly ambidextrous 7.62mm bullpup ever made. It features controls on both sides and a revolutionary front-eject which pushes the spent shells up and forward, out through a port above the barrel. The hunter version features a full 24" barrel in a remarkably small 31" package. Anyone with a Bod of 8 or greater can stash this monster under their long coat. The Carbine version uses a shorter 18" barrel, cutting its overall length down to 24" but is still rated for a remarkably long 600m practical range. Both use FAL-style drop-free magazines that do not need to be tilted in, threaded barrels, and a top rail for optics. The RFB is hard to find on the open mrket because it's highly coveted by snipers and hitmen who typically treat it to an ETE upgrade or silencer, some nice optics and a smartlink and turn it into an incredibly deadly long-range killing machine.
Changed the pocket guns to -1 WA since most P-conc guns are -1WA (short barrels after all)
And after consideration I changed the formula I used for the prices, pretty much just halving the msrp and then adding a bit to round it off
And after consideration I changed the formula I used for the prices, pretty much just halving the msrp and then adding a bit to round it off
I still want everything on that list, but seeing stats for it makes me want the RFB even more.
As I like the Sternmeyer CG-13 as a good solid hitter, even locked into 3 rnd burst and a barrel chop to improve in city use (I leave it unchopped for my Nomads). What do you guys think of applying the shortened barrel option 2 times (Range is halved, then halved again for a total of 1 quarter range or from 400m to 100m)?
Barrel shortening doesn't just screw up range in real life, it seriously fucks up accuracy and it would also screw up the firing mechanism of gas operated weapons, (thus drastically affecting its reliability.) Admittedly, the last part would not be an issue for caseless weapons as they are electrically operated.
To my knowledge, the shortest rifle barrel in current use is about 9.5 inches, because the blowback mechanism needs that minimum length to be effective.
In my opinion, 'double chopping' the barrel of any weapon, particularly an automatic rifle, would leave the shooter being lucky to hit any side of a barn they are inside of, let alone the the broad side. (I know it's an exaggeration, but I felt like being a bit dramatic.) I also don't feel it would provide a second concealability bonus. Common sense just says no. If you need more concealability for yout firepower, then I suggest machine pistols loaded with Dual Purpose ammo.
I hope you don't have something like the sawn off from "Killing them Softly" in mind...
That thing is probably as likely to kill the shooter as anyone within 10ft of it.
View attachment 1089
I was thinking along the lines of the P90 above but in a larger calibre, as the CG-13 is bullpup configured, cutting the barrel while yes dramatic, isn't as large of a chop as thought.
I was thinking along the lines of the P90 above but in a larger calibre, as the CG-13 is bullpup configured, cutting the barrel while yes dramatic, isn't as large of a chop as thought.
Attachments
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P90.jpg
Indeed. The G-11 is the basis for the CG-13, and it is 29.5 inches long with a 21.25 inch barrel. To reduce the concealment down, you would really need to lose about a third of the barrel, making the weapon about 22 inches in length, but leaving just enough space ahead of the trigger assembly to hold a hand grip. Chopping it again would mean there would barely even be space for a fore grip instead of a hand grip.
I would suggest looking at something like Magpuls PDR platform:
It's the same size and weight as a P90 but it uses STANAG mags and fires 5.56mm Nato.
An important thing to bear in mind with bullpups is that the barrel generally runs most of the length of the gun., as Chris points out
A 30" weapon could have a 20" barrel, but only a couple inches of it would stick out past the body of the weapon.
The point of a bullpup is to move the action as far back into the butt as possible so that the wasted space in what would have been the stock can be filled with barrel, goving you a full-length barrel in a gun that's two thirds the length.
I really and truly think RTG didn't fully understand the bullpup concept when they came up with their gun stats and claim that the vast majority of 2020 era longarms to be bullpups.
Barrel chopping and folding stocks on a bullpup? Ugh. And if you look at some of the illustrations in the books you;ll see that they just took a normal assault rifle, moved the magzine from in front of the grip to just behind it, and then STILL PUT A FULL STOCK on it! Madness.
Look at the Ronin Light Assault
The barrel is too low compared to where the trigger assembly and magazine are. The bullet would travel foreard from the magazine, up over the trigger assembly, then back down into the barrel...and look at that stock! Why is there an extra full stock stuck on top of and behind the mag well? How long do yoru arms need to be to work that?
Compare that to the magpull Chris posted. Effectively the same gun (5.56 assault rifle), but in a much more efficient package.
Bullpups in cyberpunk canon are just crazily designed and don;t reflect bullpups in reality.
IMO, the vast bulk of N-Conc assault Rifles *should* be L-Conc.
An old-fashioned fully-stocked M-16 or AK-47 would be N
Carbines and folding stock models like the M4 should be L
Any bullpup with a barrel less than 20" should probably be L as well
Bigass sniper rifles can be N though, likewise with machienguns and heavy weapons, but the rest should be L.
A 30" weapon could have a 20" barrel, but only a couple inches of it would stick out past the body of the weapon.
The point of a bullpup is to move the action as far back into the butt as possible so that the wasted space in what would have been the stock can be filled with barrel, goving you a full-length barrel in a gun that's two thirds the length.
I really and truly think RTG didn't fully understand the bullpup concept when they came up with their gun stats and claim that the vast majority of 2020 era longarms to be bullpups.
Barrel chopping and folding stocks on a bullpup? Ugh. And if you look at some of the illustrations in the books you;ll see that they just took a normal assault rifle, moved the magzine from in front of the grip to just behind it, and then STILL PUT A FULL STOCK on it! Madness.
Look at the Ronin Light Assault
The barrel is too low compared to where the trigger assembly and magazine are. The bullet would travel foreard from the magazine, up over the trigger assembly, then back down into the barrel...and look at that stock! Why is there an extra full stock stuck on top of and behind the mag well? How long do yoru arms need to be to work that?
Compare that to the magpull Chris posted. Effectively the same gun (5.56 assault rifle), but in a much more efficient package.
Bullpups in cyberpunk canon are just crazily designed and don;t reflect bullpups in reality.
IMO, the vast bulk of N-Conc assault Rifles *should* be L-Conc.
An old-fashioned fully-stocked M-16 or AK-47 would be N
Carbines and folding stock models like the M4 should be L
Any bullpup with a barrel less than 20" should probably be L as well
Bigass sniper rifles can be N though, likewise with machienguns and heavy weapons, but the rest should be L.
I assume you mean L instead of J for the last 2 examples.
And the Ronin is a particularly poor example of Bullpup design. I have no idea what was going on while that one was on the drawing board.
I still can't get round the 'collapsable stock' idea on the FN RAL... It's an SA80 ffs!
Yeah, sorry typo. I meant L
And yes, I posted the Ronin on purpose ebcause it seems that most of the bullpup weapons in cyberpunk were designed much the same way. Too much stock andf too much barrel for no real reason.
Obviously the artists just didn't get the concept that the barrel was hidden inside the gun, so they drew full-sized barrels on the front ends, and big long stocks in back.
And I can;t argue that a giant monstrosity like the Ronin would be N-Conc, but a ronin designed by someone who actually knows what a bullpup is would be half that size.
If most longarms in cyberpunk are bullpups or have folding stocks (as SOF2 states) then they should be L-conc.
And yes, I posted the Ronin on purpose ebcause it seems that most of the bullpup weapons in cyberpunk were designed much the same way. Too much stock andf too much barrel for no real reason.
Obviously the artists just didn't get the concept that the barrel was hidden inside the gun, so they drew full-sized barrels on the front ends, and big long stocks in back.
And I can;t argue that a giant monstrosity like the Ronin would be N-Conc, but a ronin designed by someone who actually knows what a bullpup is would be half that size.
If most longarms in cyberpunk are bullpups or have folding stocks (as SOF2 states) then they should be L-conc.
I'm starting to wonder about asking FPS Russia to explore the possibilities of the concealment of weapons under various clothing.
That kind of thing would probably cause some legal issues. I wouldn't hold out hope for it.
The MP5 listing includes the MPK. I'm guessing that's why it has such a low concealment rating.
Perhaps a revision of the listed concealment values is in order.
Perhaps a revision of the listed concealment values is in order.