For contest mod: sorry, help no longer needed, signing out from contest

[username_17]

For contest mod: sorry, help no longer needed, signing out from contest

As you know, I have won the second stage of the modding contest.What some of you maybe don't know: I'm working alone on this mod so far.Now for the 4th stage of contest it is necessary to make all the dialogs, quests, cutscenes and so on... a lot of stuff.I still believe in me, but I don't believe that I can win the next two stages without any help, because there is not much time left to implement this whole stuff.So I'm in need of a good scripter and native english speaker, who can write the needed scripts and write/correct the dialogs.You should have the following qualifications: - be willing to waste all of your freetime for the mod - much enthusiasm and fun on modding - be comfortable with the feeling, that you will get no payment for your work (in the "not winning"-case only) - you should be absolutely reliable, and reachable per PM or Email every day - english should be your mothertongue or you should be really good in it (for writing and correcting the dialogs) - you should have a good understanding of the C++ scripting language and write scripts on your own (and correct my scripts and make them run) Now, young witcher, If you now get the feeling, that this is your destiny, please post here or PM me to go through the selection and get your contract.

 

[Eriash]

i will put that on the tavern as well as announce in other places.

 

[username_17]

StatementI officially sign out from contest now.I want to give this community a short statement about the reasons, because I know that there are several people who awaits the mods and this belongs also to my mod.This is a short extraction from the yesterdays PM with the only team-member I have at the moment, and because she is no modder and has no knowledge how to use the Djinni or such editors, she could only write a few dialogs and correct mine, but all other stuff was left by me.

Have you read the remark from the CDPR-designer? *sigh* There are so much problems and bugs to fix.... I've not the feeling, that we ever will get ready with all those stuff until deadline...

Yes, I did read those. It seems to me that they're expecting an awful lot. Didn't CDPR take five YEARS to make this game, themselves? And didn't they release the Djinni with very little documentation? I think they're being unrealistic about what they expect.

And for this I have a question to you: Will you be much disappointed, if we can't get it finished and if this happens, we won't get prizes? And more, are you willing to finish it with me, even if it will be finished long after the deadline and then placed as "normal" mod at the marketplace and not for contest?

Raven, I don't care about prizes. I've never wanted to do this for the contest; I wanted to do it for you. You seemed so valiant, working on your own on such a huge project, and one that wasn't even in your native language, that I wanted to help if I could. Personally, I would be happier to do it as a regular mod than for the contest, because I think the contest is stressing people out unduly. I think CDPR's expectations are way too high. I think it would serve them right if ALL of the teams dropped out of the contest, and they didn't have anybody to criticize.

So I made the only decision, that was left or maybe I should say, I choose the lesser evil now: to sign out from contest.It is not possible to get finished with a real good mod in this short time, as you all know even the Red Flame Team has took several months to make "Deception" and they are a big, professional team and still not finished with their mod.Also I don't want to waste my complete holiday only on working around the clock every day for nothing else than this mod.I haven't seen much of my friends the last few weeks because of this damned mod and my kitchen still looks like Geralt has dropped a bomb there.But at last, don't worry: This is a good mod I'm on and it sure will be finished, but not for contest. I love "The Witcher" and I love modding, that's a reason too, because I only want to give away mods, that I love. So I will take my time now to make it as good as I want it to be and then, someday, release it.As Blizzard would say: It will be finished when it's finished.

 

[Corylea.723]

Raven, I think it's just as brave of you to retire from the contest as it was for you to take on such a large project all by yourself to begin with. It's hard to put in all this effort for the contest and then decide not to compete, but I think your having a life is more important than any mod could be. And you'll still make it, and we'll all still love playing it; you'll just make it on a saner schedule, is all.Enjoy the rest of your holiday!

 

[ndl_1]

Hi Raven,Some vitamine pills will help. Some sun and swimming in the sea too to get your karma back I am sure there will be many more contests, so don't throw away your code. Use it for the next one!Would be sorry if your left the forum. It's a lot of fun to get creative. And that's how you should see it. The contest is just an apple on a tree.But I agree. There are more important things in life to focus on,... sometimes Let good Karma guide you.Br,Another of them witchers,Ndl_1

 

[Evolution101]

Raven, let me say first of all that I completely understand and respect your decision, and I know how difficult it can be when you are working practically alone on such a project and it feels like you're in the dark half the time. Since I consistently see your name on the frontpage when those stage results get announced, I can only assume that your module has some qualities above others, so from my perspective it's a pity to lose you from the contest as I like competing From my short life experience, any project like this with a time restriction has to have some compromise, and especially in game development you have to sometimes make some difficult choices and cut things you didn't want to or do things in a different way. It's almost always a case of reigning in your ambition to satisfy the time you have. If you've considered this, and decided that you can't change your planned scenario in a way to meet the contest deadlines then I'm 100% behind you. It has been a difficult contest, and still is, because of the lack of documentation and limited time to get used to the editor, but I still hope to finish what I've started. In any case, good luck with the module and I look forward to playing it when it's released : eace:

 

[username_17]

Would be sorry if your left the forum.

Don't worry, I'm only away from contest, not from the forum and sure not from my beloved Geralt...ähh, Eskel....ähh, Yaevinn....uhm... 8)I received a few PM's and also emails, and the people want me to re-think my decision, but as I said... this can never be a real good mod if I do it for contest and have to delete several things because they are not working yet. That was the main problem.

If you've considered this, and decided that you can't change your planned scenario in a way to meet the contest deadlines then I'm 100% behind you.

If I want to get it finished for contest, there were only two cutscenes in and a few characters with standard dialogs.I've made a nice sex-cutscene, fumbled around with the best looking animations and it took me 3 or 4 hours yesterday to complete it, only to find out that there is a bug or something in and I have no longer access to it within the cutscene editor because Djinni every time crashes while trying to open it now. And it doesn't run correctly in the game too.So I can begin from the very beginning and make it new, but what will happen after the next 4 hours wasted on this, I'm sure it will crash again with the same result, so you see.... that can't be finished from one person in this short time, because it will take hours if not days to find out... or I have to delete more things from the mod then I want to... and that's not the way I want to make a mod. This one is a good mod and it will be much better, when it's finished, but this takes it's time.If somebody wants to have a look at it (or to solve the new cutscene problem, "alisa_sex_01"), check the downloads section of my website. (the site is german)

 

[TheSilver]

I could say what Evolution101 has said in my own words, I won't though, since I agree with him.Raven, you have done a magnificent job! Keeping on par with a three person team, giving it all your enthusiasm and time, not to mention all the difficulties with the Djinni ( I believe I've learned a few new swearwords by simply listing ). It is your mod and you alone decide what you put into it and when it is ready and when it is too much work. Nobody can hold that against you.I certainly hope this choice makes life for you easier and takes some of the stress away.And before I forget it: Thank you, Hexenmeister Raven.Have some dwarven spirit, the usual double

 

[Gamewidow]

I, for one, am deeply saddened by this turn of events. Raven is *more* than a capable competitor and it totally sucks not to have her in the competition.Raven, I'm gonna miss your contributions terribly! :'(

 

[Eriash]

This is not good news First, some facts. Witcher was made in app 1 year. 4 years was the production process but during that time 3 times we were saying, "no, again from scratch".And secondly.. this is not our intention to criticize you... comments from designers are rather for help not to crunch you (((I am really sad we are received this way and well... the first thing we were trying to say at the beginning was "don't have too big plans". We were constantly delaying deadlines if we heard you need it, we are trying to give you technical help and myself personally full dedication and heart. I am available thru all IMs nearly all the time... you should just come to me and say whats wrong. Believe i would do all i can to make it exactly that way, which would be easier and fun, not crunch work.

 

[ailinon]

However, seriously, the requirements for this contest were clearly NOT suitable for one-person-armies. It was very brave of Raven to try to accomplish solo what other contestants had several people on - but indeed at some point the amount of work might simply overwhelm.One of the reasons is that, well, Djinni is as it is: user unfriendly, unintuitive, buggy. Things that seem very simple in concept turn out to be awfully hard or even impossible to implement, because of some engine specifics. In times like that - "how to make a big caption in a cutscene", "how to put a placeable in a cutscene", "how to make scripts work in npc-to-npc dialogues", to name a few - designers have to dedicate countless hours on trial-and-error attempts to make something work (and quite often they have to change their plans entirely, failing to implement something). Perhaps it's the vacation season, perhaps it's the amount of work the RED team has on their hands anyway - but the outcome is that we're spending precious days stuck on rediscovering stuff that likely any Djinni-proficient RED team member would clear up in a matter of minutes. And time is the most crucial resource here - it can be spent on serious work, or on fighting the editor in what may turn out to be a completely wrong approach. It would really, really help if REDs could divert some more workforce to read the forums every day and answer what even the most advanced fan designers cannot figure out.It's most important in this final stage, too, as the previous stages used only a small subset of Djinni's features and this stage uses all of it at once. All quirky bits come out, all unforeseen obstacles present themselves - and we have to fight our way through them, instead of having someone to say, "no no, that's not the way we did it, it doesn't work and even we don't know why, so we worked around it like this".In a nutshell - we really, really need more precise technical attention from the REDs, if we're to focus on bringing our adventures into life and successfully complete the contest.

 

[Gamewidow]

The biggest problem is that D'Jinni is simply not stable enough ... once again we've (medusa team) lost almost a week worth of work because our module began to mysteriously crash D'Jinni and we don't know why. ... and of course, when D'Jinni crashes, we have no log to search to find out why, and it crashes about every 4th time i save or make a large change.Also, you have to admit that even though CDP started "from scratch" with the witcher engine and assets, they certainly did not start "from scratch" with game development knowledge and experience.The last time i wrote a program was in a first year computer science course during my undergraduate degree ...that's 26 years ago and we used Pascal as a programming language. I have never done any sort of modding before of any kind, and i doubt many of the people who entered the contest have either.so i can fully understand why Raven decided that having a life was more important than fighting endlessly with a tool that is just not actually ready to be used by people who don't have years of experience. This is not to say that D'Jinni does not have huge potential to be a great tool ... the problem is quite simply that we are not there yet.Also, you guys, whether or not you want to admit it, are incredibly busy with the final stages of getting EE out, and i'm sorry, but the developers have not been very timely with their help. They have helped a lot, i'm not disputing that at all .... but that help has been hampered by the fact that they are really too busy to offer help right now. I don't blame them, i just think you are trying to do too many things right now with too few people.We have not dropped out of the contest ... yet ... but i have to tell you that at least some people on this team are seriously considering whether or not this is all worth it. What started as a really fun sounding idea has become a 70 hr / week job ... and that was never my goal, and i doubt it was anybody else's.Edit: and what Ailinon said!

 

[nimue]

I was just about to reply to Ailinon's post when I saw that Game Widow had already done so and had really said all I was going to say as well. I fully agree with both of you - I still like the idea of the contest, but trying to meet a deadline working with a still instable tool while juggling a full time job on the side is becoming increasingly difficult. I'm not blaming anyone for this, but sadly, it's a fact.

 

[username_17]

Yes, I agree with Ailinon and Game widow.... now you know how hard this is for a beginner in programming/scripting and as single-person-team.When I fought my first fight with the NWN 1-Toolset, I did know nothing about scripting or modding, and it took me two weeks to get into it and then I began to make my mod... so it was my own fould, to think: "The Djinni depends on the Aurora engine, so it must be as easy as NWN" Now I know I was totally wrong.And it takes me much more time to find out, how things work in Djinni, than to make the mod, once you know those things.And even people who are working in teams and some, that are programmers or have more knowledge of programming, are having much trouble with the Djinni.Well, I know I can make a good mod... but I have to wait until all those problems are solved by some programmers or modders, and then I can read their posts and then learn from them, to make it.And as Ailinon said:

It would really, really help if REDs could divert some more workforce to read the forums every day and answer what even the most advanced fan designers cannot figure out.

Yes, that is a great problem, we all know you are busy with EE, and I don't want to critizise CDPR, but I got a message from Endrek, that he still hasn't had time to look at the problem with my first cutscene. So another thing I had to find out on my own (thanks Medusa team for their help with this), and now I have the second problem with a cutscene, even while doing all exactly as it was in the m1_module... *sigh*So more of you people that will watch the forum for those modding-problems and answers within short time would really be great.@And Eriash, I really hope that after the EE is finished and out, that you put all your technicans and designers to work and make a better Djinni for us... (not only for beginners)

 

[username_2075278]

OK, I'm going to add my two penn'orth. I'm a computer scientist of a sort. I've earned my living writing software for twenty five years. I used to be a specialist at inference engines; these days I specialise in transforming data. I know a lot about software, it holds few terrors for me. I wrote my first RPG in 1984. And, like Raven, I have experience of the old NWN Aurora toolset, which was on the whole stragihtforward, stable and easy to use.I can even see what you're trying to achieve with D'Jinni - and a lot of it is good. But for heaven's sake, why did you start to write your own IDE from scratch rather than building a plugin for Eclipse or SharpDevelop? Why on earth do you not have a component to convert cleanly between GFF and XML? Why,for the love of God and little fishes, is there not some referential integrity checking?I'm told by people who probably know that you have a different version of D'Jinni in house, which may be more stable. And certainly, when it falls over in house,you can go and talk to the people who developed it and get a feel for why it fell over... I haven't given up, yet. This has been very much harder, and very much more stressful than I had expected it to be.I think we can finish. But also I think that in order to finish we're going to have to reverse engineer and rebuild quite a lot of D'Jinni, because frankly in its present state its more hindrance than help. And the question is at what point this ceases to be worth it - at what point putting the same effort into The Blender or the Java Monkey Engine will pay off better dividends.Guys, I love The Witcher. I think it's a marvelous piece of work - on many levels, and certainly artistically, the best computer mediated fiction yet. But if you're going to develop the sort of modding community that can keep a buzz going in the medium term, you're going to have to find a way of releasing better tools. Because in its present state D'Jinni doesn't cut it.

 

[vaernus]

Honestly, and this is not any attempt to divert the direction this is going, we have had very little problems using Djinni when building Deception. The only quirks we ran into were a few crashes when building cutscenes (Caroline, aka Unkreativ, can attest to this), and we were able to bring out an engine bug when our poly count of the area was much higher in which it wouldn't properly create a binary model. Otherwise, though, it's been very straightforward. The only crash I get is when I exit, as it apparently needs to headbutt a brick wall to shutdown, instead of gracefully exiting properly. Now the big thing here is they approached Djinni as not being a standard modding tool, but the actual "protool" that they used in developing The Witcher. By this, they meant it wasn't going to be as easy and intuitive as previous toolsets that were built from the ground up to be for the modding community but with constraints. By constraints, it could mean many features that their tools could accomplish that they didn't pass on to community. Djinni, however, is supposed to be the very same tool used in-house. And, typically, an in-house tool is not as user friendly. It's made a certain way to accomplish the goal of making the game efficiently and quickly, and then the designers are trained extensively on how the tool works. So perhaps 20 people understand it inside and out and that's it.Because this same tool was passed onto community, it was never rebuilt for a modding community. It is built for the developer, the programmer, the game designer. Now while this may deter folks from using it, once you learn everything inside and out, you can do things with Djinni that most typical toolsets don't allow, or don't have functionality for. But this requires a good amount of learning. The REDFlame team has played around with Djinni since launch, and we've had 40 developers. So we've been able to pool knowledge and understand most of the inner workings. Whatever we couldn't understand, CDPR has supported with tutorials and answers whenever we needed them (which are up on Djinni Wikia). Deception has been the result of that learning, the trial and error, and support from CDPR. It's good, but not great. But taking from Deception, our other projects will be to the same quality as The Witcher.The best thing the community can do at this point is pool knowledge, and every person at REDFlame is here to help. Djinni can be a one-person tool once everyone understands every part, and the only way to accomplish that is putting the knowledge down on the Djinni Wikia. When each community member figures something out, write a tutorial and drop it on the Wikia. We have done what we can on our side, and will continue to create tutorials as time progresses. CDPR is also there to help, and they do above and beyond with the limited time they have. I can safely say that Eriash runs around like a headless chicken every day, including his days off, to support the community. All you have to do is ask. But this is a developer protool and will take longer to get used to, and understand every part, of it. It was never flouted as anything else but a protool in previews, and nor that it would be easy to use. But the results would be rewarding, and they have been so far.

 

[Gamewidow]

buried in your text i see "it took more than 40 experienced gaming people several months to figure out D'Jinni" and they needed help from CDPRthat is not something that even our team of 3 could have done ... or am i misreading things ?

 

[username_17]

Huh, I've opened a big discussion about Djinni with my retreat from contest....Only to say it clearly: My main reason, why I give up the contest is the time!Yes, there are several problems with Djinni itself, but that was not the main reason for me. If there would be more help from those 20 people, that knew the Djinni, if those 20 people would have more looks into the problems threads, that really would help.I try to make it longer now than Game Widow does: (I don't want to insult you, Vaernus, or something like this, so please don't understand my next lines wrong)

The only quirks we ran into were a few crashes when building cutscenes ..

The only crash I get is when I exit, as it apparently needs to headbutt a brick wall to shutdown, instead of gracefully exiting properly.

This is really the only crash you have? Why did my Djinni crashes every time, when I do clicking more than 50 dialog lines? It went slower and slower with every line until it crashes. Also, if there are more than 3 or 4 files opened at same time. If 2 areas are opened and you try to write dialogs, you can be sure that it will take half an hour changing between those files, and then you really should save before it crashes. And so on... not to talk about the damned cutscene problems.So is this only a machine problem? I ever thought, my computer is good enough for all this. I can't believe, because I know, that Medusa team has several crashes, too.

Now the big thing here is they approached Djinni as not being a standard modding tool, but the actual "protool" that they used in developing The Witcher.

That was never my problem, if I have enough time and enough help from people that are programmers, I would get through this. My problem was the time for contest and that I don't work in a team, so this is more a single person problem for me

The REDFlame team has played around with Djinni since launch, and we've had 40 developers. So we've been able to pool knowledge and understand most of the inner workings.

I agree with Game Widow! If I would have 40 people around me, that are all profi programmers/designers and whatever, you can be sure, that my mod would have been ready long before the deadline for contest.

CDPR has supported with tutorials and answers whenever we needed them (which are up on Djinni Wikia).

Vaernus, really.... you remember our chat? The problem with the quests? Simon and I had problems with those quest tutorial in the Djinni Wikia, because it was bull.s---, that's why we both asked you. When the contest began, there were several things mentioned in this Wiki, that doesn't work as they were described there, that was the reason why I had asked Arkray, how she made some things in her first mod.. especially for dialogs, flags and journal entrys. Now Arkrays journal tutorial is on the Wiki ! Now your quest tutorial is on the Wiki !But they weren't there when contest started, and there are a few more things on the Wiki now, because some modders add them there.Also I mentioned my PM, that I get from Endrek (the "Djinni First Aid Technican"), ok he was on holiday at the time we had the problem and they are really busy with all the EE stuff and so on... but if there are 20 people with knowledge of Djinni (as you said), why is there not only one to answer every day a bit to the questions.I asked for a script in TNZ's thread for the "Scripting FAQ's" and the only response comes from other modders, but as you can see: TNZ itself has not answered this thread for a very long time... and no one can have such a long holiday, and I'm sure he isn't the only one at CDPR who knows something about scripting.That was that what I meant, it would help us if only one from CDPR, that has the needed knowledge, would have a look at our questions every day, and so there are 19 people left to do the EE stuff and what else they have to do.But, and that's only my opinion: Maybe CDPR is getting a bit megalomaniac with all the stuff they want to do, I have the feeling that it more helps CDPR and the community to retreat a bit and only do a few things at the same time and get it a bit slower. I for myself am here now, and if they would do some things a bit slower, I swear I will be here in a year or in two years and whenever they want and need a Witcher-Fan.

I can safely say that Eriash runs around like a headless chicken every day,

I don't want Eriash to run around like a headless chicken... that's not looking so cool. 8) So maybe I am right with saying: do it a bit slower....And now I say it again, so that everybody understands my reason to go out from contest: There is not enough time for one single person to go through all this problems and make a good mod.Simon from Medusa team is a software writer, and Game Widow (same team) mentioned that she had a programmer course once ago... and I, well, I just begin with all this stuff a year or so ago, and it takes a bit time for me to learn... and I can't learn it until the deadline

 

[vaernus]

This is really the only crash you have? Why did my Djinni crashes every time, when I do clicking more than 50 dialog lines? It went slower and slower with every line until it crashes. Also, if there are more than 3 or 4 files opened at same time. If 2 areas are opened and you try to write dialogs, you can be sure that it will take half an hour changing between those files, and then you really should save before it crashes. And so on... not to talk about the damned cutscene problems.So is this only a machine problem? I ever thought, my computer is good enough for all this. I can't believe, because I know, that Medusa team has several crashes, too.

Honestly, you never really want to have more than one area open in any toolset considering the resources needed to load one area alone. And when you're done with an area, shut it down. Between the poly count and everything you may add on, you're basically running it in real time. And considering how advanced the engine is compared to what graphics card you may have, it could very well be overloading your graphics card and easily filling your memory. Those crashes would be more hardware related than Djinni.Other than that, we really have not had many crashes honestly. Maybe it's the systems we have, and Djinni doesn't run well on older ones, but it runs smooth.

Vaernus, really.... you remember our chat? The problem with the quests? Simon and I had problems with those quest tutorial in the Djinni Wikia, because it was bull.s---, that's why we both asked you. When the contest began, there were several things mentioned in this Wiki, that doesn't work as they were described there, that was the reason why I had asked Arkray, how she made some things in her first mod.. especially for dialogs, flags and journal entrys. Now Arkrays journal tutorial is on the Wiki ! Now your quest tutorial is on the Wiki !But they weren't there when contest started, and there are a few more things on the Wiki now, because some modders add them there.Also I mentioned my PM, that I get from Endrek (the "Djinni First Aid Technican"), ok he was on holiday at the time we had the problem and they are really busy with all the EE stuff and so on... but if there are 20 people with knowledge of Djinni (as you said), why is there not only one to answer every day a bit to the questions.I asked for a script in TNZ's thread for the "Scripting FAQ's" and the only response comes from other modders, but as you can see: TNZ itself has not answered this thread for a very long time... and no one can have such a long holiday, and I'm sure he isn't the only one at CDPR who knows something about scripting.That was that what I meant, it would help us if only one from CDPR, that has the needed knowledge, would have a look at our questions every day, and so there are 19 people left to do the EE stuff and what else they have to do.But, and that's only my opinion: Maybe CDPR is getting a bit megalomaniac with all the stuff they want to do, I have the feeling that it more helps CDPR and the community to retreat a bit and only do a few things at the same time and get it a bit slower. I for myself am here now, and if they would do some things a bit slower, I swear I will be here in a year or in two years and whenever they want and need a Witcher-Fan.

We didn't need any support to get the quest system running. One of our guys was from NWN, and used a similar system using journal entries mixed with dialogue lines to get the quest to work. We tweaked it some, but what is seen in Deception basically was what we had working day one. It's become much more complex, but that was very straightforward with "AND" and "OR" subquests. Now granted, this wasn't exactly explained on the Djinni Wikia as it used the standard dialogue system (which does work), but understanding the logic of Djinni makes it a simple matter of figuring out the multitude of ways you can manipulate the quest system into what you need. Quest System 101 explains some approaches of that, and those results were simple trial and error by one guy in one day. As for 20 people, it was merely a guess. Probably much less as CDPR was a smaller team building this. However, Endrek and TnZ are the ones that have been officially given the task of supporting the community. If everyone had to hop on here, no other products would get completed. So questions get sent to those two, and they can get the answers from other designers as quickly as they can. Considering this is a time right before EE, it is probably very hectic in the offices as they get the game ready for September.

I don't want Eriash to run around like a headless chicken... that's not looking so cool. Cool So maybe I am right with saying: do it a bit slower....And now I say it again, so that everybody understands my reason to go out from contest: There is not enough time for one single person to go through all this problems and make a good mod.Simon from Medusa team is a software writer, and Game Widow (same team) mentioned that she had a programmer course once ago... and I, well, I just begin with all this stuff a year or so ago, and it takes a bit time for me to learn... and I can't learn it until the deadline Cheesy

Well unfortunately in the gaming industry, you don't get time for doing things slower. Generally you've got a publisher saying that things must be out in a month, when you have 6 months of work left to do. So you do crunch time for that month and get 4 of the 6 months complete, but they have bugs from human error of not sleeping for a month and the game is still not complete. Only time it's slow is when the development studio goes under. But yea, we are here to help you as well as the modding community. I'm sure this will not be the only contest, and once you've gotten the skills (which really shouldn't take too long), then you'll wow the hell outta the community and yourself with the results. I have faith.

 

[username_17]

Well unfortunately in the gaming industry, you don't get time for doing things slower. Wink Generally you've got a publisher saying that things must be out in a month, when you have 6 months of work left to do. So you do crunch time for that month and get 4 of the 6 months complete, but they have bugs from human error of not sleeping for a month and the game is still not complete.

I must really say: I never understood this and you can be sure, that I never will understand this.They produce only to make money... so they throw it on market unfinished and with bugs, because they want to sell it now and not in 3 months. (like Gothic 3, hehe)But if they want to make much more money, they have to understand, that they have to produce a good game with no bugs and release it 3 month later, because the people don't buy such a game why it is there or not there... people buy such a game after they have read gaming magazines, reports, after they heard opinions from other people or whatever, but if they read or hear, that the game has several bugs and doesn't run and isn't finished, they won't buy it.Money is never made with disappointing the people who will some day buy the thing you produce, money is made by making a good ware, producing a high quality ware and give it to the users. Example Gothic 3: How much money have they lost, because several people hasn't bought the game because of the bugs? Because of the bad reports in gaming magazines? Because of people that shouted out in the forums, that they want a bug-free game and not such a mess? How much more money could they had made, when they waited 3 months and fixed some bugs more before throwing it on the market?There are several fan-made products that are better than the original game itself...I for myself am not a developer, not a publisher and I am no programmer, but if I ever wanted to make a game and sell it, then I would give such a publisher a kick in the a-- and search for another. (Or publish it on my own.)And those "other" publishers exist... even if there are only a few of them.I think, all those publishers, who only want to throw their game on market, not interested in the fact, if it is good enough at this time, needs such a "Gothic3" kick-in-the-ass and get lost of all the money that they could have made.I want to make a good mod (withput any publisher ;D), and give it to the market(place), when it's finished and when it is good enough and running without any bugs!Btw, my system:AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4600+, MMX, 3DNow (2 CPU's)2046 MB RAMRadeon X1550 Series (ATI) with 1024MB to less for the Djinni...?