FP VS TP - perspective matters

[xer21]

One of the main aspects I enjoy about many rpgs is customizing my character. I'm the type of person that can literally spend hours in character creator making my character look just "right" before I even get into the game.

Cool. That's not mutually exclusive to Third Person games.

On top of those part of the fun of rpgs is loot, getting new clothing, armor, equipment, etc. I love seeing that on my character and how they change as the game progresses and they look cooler. You miss out on this a lot when you only see your character in the inventory screen or a few cutscenes here and there.

I mean great, but if that makes or breaks a game for you then clearly you value looking at art more than playing. Which is to say, I don't think this matters to you as much as you think it will.

I want to get a cool new trench coat (a la Deckard style) and then walk down a long dark sidewalk at night while the wind kicks the jacket around and I hear the distant cries of violence erupting around me. That kind of thing can add atmosphere that you just don't get in a first person perspective.

If you think that a trench coat is the end all be all of atmosphere, I think you need to open your mind a bit more. Atmosphere is in execution, not just style. Plenty of first person games nail strong atmosphere. You're locking yourself in a box because you haven't experienced otherwise. This is a case of lack of experience, not a lacking of the medium.

Most of us who are advocating for 3rd person simply want it as an option, we don't want to take first person away from anyone. Those that like 1st person should still be able to play and enjoy it that way.

I addressed why this is actually a huge technical issue. Its not as simple as just "make it toggle".

We just want the choice to play in 3rd person, just like Fallout/Elder Scrolls/GTA V offers.

All of those games play pretty awkwardly in both perspectives. There's a reason for that.

 

[Loopyfroot]

Well, other than being asked "will there be third person", which is a future tense, and then answering that directly with a "no". That, to me, reads directly as there being no plans right now, to add a third person mode at any point in the future regardless of how the first person decision will be received (which, trust me, they discussed long before E3, that's obvious), but of course if you go by "well, they may change their minds", then that leaves everything open.

They might change their minds and cancel the entire game. How's that?

Cool its going to suck (for me)

 

[John_Quiroga]

I guess the new question for CDPR ought to be: Will the game support mods? View attachment 10970363

Can mods actually go as far as to add a whole TPP camera?

 

[Yhiirt]

Can mods actually go as far as to add a whole TPP camera?

possible but could take a huge time.

 

[xer21]

I agree with you to a point, but honestly if CDPR hadnt done their last 3 games in TPP, we wouldnt of expected this one to like this. Its really because its a change from the past RPGs that caught us off guard. I certainly wouldnt be seeking out first person games since they tend to make me sick. We just assumed it would have TPP. It is what it is, if they add it as an option great, but if they dont i dont really think you will see that many complaints about future games CDPR does in FPP. Im ONLY asking for TPP because their last games are...

I cant speak for everyone, but i wont sit around whining for TPP on these forums till the end of time. If they move away from what i can play, ill move on eventually when its clear they cant do anything about it.

It's an entirely unrelated franchise, your mistake was assuming anything at all. I mean people seem to have expected a cyberpunk Witcher which...I dunno, seem's just obviously misguided?

Okay, didn't want to engage, but couldn't let this drop.

It doesn't matter if you think FPP doesn't ruin immersion, break combat, or ruin situation awareness. That's obviously true for you. It isn't for other people. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Put another way: Everyone touting FPP as the best at immersion, best at combat, and best at situational awareness are totally wrong, No leg to stand on.

What you're doing is the equivalent of "Tastes great! Less Filling!" and trying to argue that you're preference is the One True Preference. All that most of the people advocating for TPP/hugely disappointed it won't be included are asking for is that we're not forced to use a camera perspective that, for us, does break immersion, combat and situational awareness. Not i place of FPP, but in addition to.

What's difficult to understand is that most people don't seem to even understand how First Person games function and exhibit a clear lack of experience.

I'm not arguing for a preference. I'm arguing for people to actually know what they're talking about. whether its third or first person is immaterial to me, but people make ignorant claims about either perspective is my issue.

 

[Razrback16]

Ya, I was just reading an article on PC Gamer about this - if this turns out to be vast majority in FP, I probably will not buy it. To say I'm disappointed at this point in time is a DRAMATIC understatement. I'll continue to watch the news and see what CDPR has to say, but FP...big thumbs down from me. I was expecting a Witcher 3 style perspective.

 

[xer21]

Can mods actually go as far as to add a whole TPP camera?

Sure. It'll look bad, but sure.

 

[postluc]

Funny how some people say that those who want the TPP are the "minority", but yet, everywhere you go on the internet that's somehow related to CP2077, the majority of people is actually asking for a TPP option... That's a minority alright lol

 

[Terralventhe]

Can mods actually go as far as to add a whole TPP camera?

It honestly depends on whether they have animated the character model in its entirety, like in Borderlands, or if they just reduce the character to an invisible floating camera, like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

If it's the former, and if the game is moddable, then you SHOULD to be able to pull the camera out in some form or fashion to get a third person view. Unless they do what Gearbox did and hardcode it so you CAN'T mod the camera, just to spite the third-person requests.

 

[wall2211]

W

Well, other than being asked "will there be third person", which is a future tense, and then answering that directly with a "no". That, to me, reads directly as there being no plans right now, to add a third person mode at any point in the future regardless of how the first person decision will be received (which, trust me, they discussed long before E3, that's obvious), but of course if you go by "well, they may change their minds", then that leaves everything open.

They might change their minds and cancel the entire game. How's that? [/QUOTE
Will there be third person means will there be third person in the game not will you add it to the game in the future. Stop assuming and giving others false hope. You gamers read into things too much.

 

[wall2211]

Well, other than being asked "will there be third person", which is a future tense, and then answering that directly with a "no". That, to me, reads directly as there being no plans right now, to add a third person mode at any point in the future regardless of how the first person decision will be received (which, trust me, they discussed long before E3, that's obvious), but of course if you go by "well, they may change their minds", then that leaves everything open.

They might change their minds and cancel the entire game. How's that?

Will there be third person means will there be third person in the game not will you add it to the game in the future. Stop assuming and giving others false hope. You gamers read into things too much.

 

[Terralventhe]

It's an entirely unrelated franchise, your mistake was assuming anything at all. I mean people seem to have expected a cyberpunk Witcher which...I dunno, seem's just obviously misguided?

Eehhh.. The Witcher 3 dropping a Cyberpunk 2077 reference with all but outright stating that Ciri went to and lived in Night City sort of makes it related..? Sorta, kinda? 'ish?

 

[Sydanyo]

Adding a third person mode, when one doesn't exist, would also require an incredible amount of work. If the game has been designed as a first person game, then there's no player model there when you're playing. It's not just a case of pulling the camera out. No no. You'd have to create fully animated player models for each type of player body, with all the textures and gear models working perfectly with every single type of movement. There'd be hours of motion capture to be done and so on.

It wouldn't be like, "well, let's dedicate the next month for creating a third person mode."

 

[Suhiira]

It's not a matter of wanting something, it's literally the thumbs up or the thumbs down for me.

I'm in a similar boat.
But in my case it's related to nerve damage. Typical FPS, platformer, QTE, and RTS games are impossible for me to play. I physically cannot react quickly or precisely enough to play such games. For day-to-day purposes this isn't an issue (yeah, I'll never be a fighter pilot) but twitch games? Forget it, I learned not to even bother buying them because all I get is frustrated and another unfinished game lining my shelves. Why I was thrilled to learn there was a non FPS combat option in CP2077.

 

[BaalNergal]

Eehhh.. The Witcher 3 dropping a Cyberpunk 2077 reference with all but outright stating that Ciri went to and lived in Night City sort of makes it related..? Sorta, kinda? 'ish?

Hmm... Cyberpunk 2077 continuing Ciri's story and effectively being Witcher 4?

 

[Gun_Show]

It's an entirely unrelated franchise, your mistake was assuming anything at all. I mean people seem to have expected a cyberpunk Witcher which...I dunno, seem's just obviously misguided?




What's difficult to understand is that most people don't seem to even understand how First Person games function and exhibit a clear lack of experience.

I'm not arguing for a preference. I'm arguing for people to actually know what they're talking about. whether its third or first person is immaterial to me, but people make ignorant claims about either perspective is my issue.

Actually, you are arguing for a preference. Your hubris is showing by making the assumption that those of us stating our intense dislike for FPP don't know what we're talking about.

I've stated it before and I'll do so again. I've been gaming for decades and I know what camera perspectives I like and which ones I don't like. FPP just doesn't do it for me. It really provides me with no fun at all. It's distracting. TPP is much more immersive and fun for me. For me, FPP really lowers the fun quotient of a game to the point where it's no longer desirable.

There's no objective right or wrong here, but all the FPP advocates seem to think there is.

 

[xer21]

And that aside I do honestly think melee combat and other non-gunplay oriented gameplay styles will be stifled and limited by the first-person perspective. And if the game's focus is to be more than guns (especially in order to justify the claim that it's NOT a FPS game) then hampering those other aspects just for a subjectively immersive camera perspective seems rather like a weak argument in its favour.

and third person stifles gunplay. It's less precise. Hampering shooting just to make melee feel better would be the exact ame thing in reverse.

BTW, the whole "Its an FPS/not an FPS" thing is dumb. You can be a gun focuse first person game and still be more RPG than shooter. Deus Ex is not really a shooter more than it is an RPG, for example.

Really the only legitimate excuse that CDPR has at this point is 'we already dropped five years of work and money into this and we can't go back now!'

or you know, it didn't fit their artistic vision. That's a legitimate excuse.

But then that argument is faulty seeing as how I've observed talk about this game over those five years and anyone who would try to claim that the vast majority was NOT expecting a third-person is clearly lying through their teeth.

it doesn't matter what anyone was expecting. it was 100% fan driven hype, CD Projekt promised NOTHING. The hype was all on the fans.

Had CDPR officially stated that this game was going to be first-person at any earlier point than now, people would be having this very same reaction, only then they'd have more time to actually address the issue.

its not an issue that needs addressing. you either buy the game or you don't. an artistic choice isn't an issue. it's YOUR issue, not theirs.

 

[Garrison72]

Same, although I worry about melee combat. Nearly always done poorly in FPP.

Some games of late have done it well in FP, like Doom, Shadow Warrior and Dishonoured. But it will by necessity be pretty simplistic I think, something like a garnish on the main course of the combat loop. Not a fully developed martial arts system with skill trees.

 

[Sydanyo]

Will there be third person means will there be third person in the game not will you add it to the game in the future. Stop assuming and giving others false hope. You gamers read into things too much.

I'm treating the words as they are. I'm not reading into them. Saying that they may add a third person mode later, when there's no indication that they're planning to do that, is the false hope here.

 

[Gun_Show]

Hmm... Cyberpunk 2077 continuing Ciri's story and effectively being Witcher 4?

I'm pretty sure they've come out and flatly denied that Ciri journeyed to the world of CP2077.