FP VS TP - perspective matters

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What perspective do YOU want in CP game ?

  • FP- First person

    Votes: 300 22.9%
  • TP- Third person

    Votes: 457 34.9%
  • I must play TP- I have motion sickness GIVE as choice !

    Votes: 99 7.6%
  • I do not care

    Votes: 131 10.0%
  • I want both!

    Votes: 323 24.7%

  • Total voters
    1,310
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That their claim of "I bet there aren't even that many people who suffer from motion sickness anyway!" was quintessentially a self-serving dismissal because the idea that 17-20% of gamers suffering from it is an inconvenience to their own stance in this whole mess.

So now it's 17-20%? Checking those journals now.

With such a great sample size (9 and 7) we could prove anything, how great! I'm sure it's totally reasonable to assume 89% feel sick when playing Halo! Also this study is made with players playing on VisettePro, an early VR-thing.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...Console_Video_Games_and_Head-Mounted_Displays

More VR which is not the same thing as FPP. Virtual Boy induced nausea as well, but no one's comparing VB with video games in general, are they?
http://jultika.oulu.fi/files/nbnfioulu-201802091218.pdf

But I'm sure it's just my "subjective" view that VR isn't the same thing as FPP. Look mommy! I'm moving the goalpost!
 

Guest 4311839

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That their claim of "I bet there aren't even that many people who suffer from motion sickness anyway!" was quintessentially a self-serving dismissal because the idea that 17-20% of gamers suffering from it is an inconvenience to their own stance in this whole mess.

I will not claim numbers but adding TPP option wouldn't probobly make sense in cost effectivness. And it might be to late in development. to do it. And 20% is huge numbers but you cant go for all the 100% gamers merket any way it wouldn't work. So even it is 20% it still might not make sense to add TPP for many reasons. I understand you asking CDPR for option and lets hope they will think about this subject like this in the future. But trying prove how this might hurt CDPR or how they would had much more sales for this is just speculations and i don't see how gaming market history showed us that trying to please all or FPP can lead to bad sale bad rpg or bad game.
 
I'm still waiting for a source on that 17% figure, nothing you linked says that, and Wikipedia only has the vague "a third of people are SUSCEPTIBLE to motion sickness". I've seen no concrete source saying "this is an issue that affects 17% of people who play video games, to a point where they can't play first person games at all"
Well, I'm digging through a number of research papers. Here's one from the navy relating to 'Simulator Sickness', which more or less refers back to first-person perspective simulators used in training. More often than not the nausea and motion sickness gamers feel is often linked to simulator sickness as well.
https://www.twentymilliseconds.com/pdf/navy_motion_sickness.pdf

Warner et al. (1993) assessed SS in two wide-FOV F-1 6 flight simulators. Twenty-four (24) male pilots participated in total. Sixteen (16) were active-duty military pilots of mean age 28.6 years (the "younger group"). Eight (8) were older active-duty military pilots and former military pilots of mean age 52.1 years (the "older group"). The task was a challenging 50-minute flight through a long, narrow, twisting canyon in each of the two simulators, in counter-balanced order, two weeks apart. One pilot from the younger group (1/16 = 6.25%) terminated a session prematurely due to severe SS. Three pilots from the older group (3/8 = 37.5%) terminated a session prematurely due to severe SS. The discomfort ratings (early version SSQ) collected from pilots who terminated prematurely were significantly higher than those from pilots who completed the flight. Among those pilots who completed the flight, there was no significant difference in discomfort ratings between the younger and older groups. Among those pilots who completed the flight, there was also no significant difference in postural equilibrium (SOLEC, WOFEC) between the groups.

Hein (1993) reported the results of 22 separate studies, involving 469 participants of both genders and a wide range of ages, over the course of 6 years. All studies took place in a fixed-base, automobile-driving simulator. Hein stated that age differences in susceptibility to SS were among the most consistent results. "Younger, male drivers adapt easily. Older drivers and women are severely susceptible to simulator sickness" (Hein, p. 611).

This study here suggests the number is as high as 67% of adults and 56% of children, in direct correlation to videogames:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00221-011-2993-4#/page-2

Want me to keep digging up studies?
 
No problem. Both cameras are very convenient and pleasant if they are well implemented. But in a whole 3 face of course more functional and a simple
 

Guest 4311839

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In GTA and TES were able to implement both modes. Apparently not yet grown to the level to cover the interests of the largest number of players.

Yes but GTA and TES or FALLOUT for me isn't even good examples i found those game toggling TPP/FPP kinda afterthought.(You can say its subjective) For my taste best TPP/FPP example still is StarWars Jedi Academy/Outcast. I trust CDPR had a visions for the game. Sadly some wont or want be able to play it

But cheer up guys it might be trash anyways.
 
Ok for you but not for the sales. They aren't a bunch of neckbeards working on a game inside a garage.
If done, it must be the best they can, and that's not possible due to the design.
Amount of people who said "I won't buy a CP77 with tacked on TPP mode" = 0
Amount of people who said "I won't buy a CP77 without a TPP mode" = a lot

So far, not seeing what you told.
 
just to recap the poll.

Nearly 1200 people vote and the results are pretty impressive.

And since some devs already speak out loud... They will not listen the community into this one and they will not add 3rd person view. I do ask them to reconsider their tweets and personal visions for the benefit of the whole.

I would suggest tweaks to satisfy both communities because it seems you divided your community and you went with the minority, to implement 3rd person view (user choice), when we are out of combat, when we do other stuff other than killing (except if the game is a pure fps and everything is about kill kill kill and no point to argue but CDPR keeps it low for now) and all content related with our apartments (housing) city travel, mini games, bars, drugs..sex... to allow us use 3rd person view as well.

I also wish hirelings and followers, I wish to have the hireling I like most and not only be my combat follower, but also be my spouse and what so ever… Thats what RPG means...

so consider this as a suggestion. With this suggestion, you dont have to change much especially the combat mechanics, also gives freedom of choice.
 
First-person view is depressing news. And excuses developers, the type
The first-person view will allow you to better see what is happening around, much better interact with the game world.
- bullshit. Review and interaction is always more convenient from a third party. Trite because of the width of the viewing angle and the ability to see what is behind. Plus stealth and the cover system is always in the third person more comfortable playing. And the 3rd person became a Canon for RPG. Name me at least 5 RPG only with first person view?
And actually, so driving a car can be done with a choice of first-person or third-person, and the whole game can not? This is nonsense!
 
I don't understand how people here don't understand simple branding. CDPR has, from the start of it's rise, been branded as a TPP RPG studio. The best one. Witcher series is practically their trademark.

For five years they kept their mouths shut fuelling a faux mystery. It worked, and now they're getting backlash, because they broke the brand. Yeah, mystery is fun, but communication costs nothing and helps a lot as well. This discussion could've been done in 2015 in a more civil way. Now? It's reaping what you sow, a mess.

FPP is not my cup of tea, but I hope I'll like it enough to play this game.

I wanted to see the character I customized in my own way interact with the world, which I now won't be able to see. Instead I'll see floating hands which'll help me with 'immersion.'

Immersion is subjective, understand that. Both perspectives have issues.

It would've cost CDPR $0 to communicate. But they didn't. Let this be a mistake from which (I hope) they'll learn.
 
it is in games third-person view is more consistent with real human vision as a wider view creates a semblance of peripheral side vision. a first-person view is limited by the screen frame.
 
Well, I'm digging through a number of research papers. Here's one from the navy relating to 'Simulator Sickness', which more or less refers back to first-person perspective simulators used in training. More often than not the nausea and motion sickness gamers feel is often linked to simulator sickness as well.
https://www.twentymilliseconds.com/pdf/navy_motion_sickness.pdf

Warner et al. (1993) assessed SS in two wide-FOV F-1 6 flight simulators. Twenty-four (24) male pilots participated in total. Sixteen (16) were active-duty military pilots of mean age 28.6 years (the "younger group"). Eight (8) were older active-duty military pilots and former military pilots of mean age 52.1 years (the "older group"). The task was a challenging 50-minute flight through a long, narrow, twisting canyon in each of the two simulators, in counter-balanced order, two weeks apart. One pilot from the younger group (1/16 = 6.25%) terminated a session prematurely due to severe SS. Three pilots from the older group (3/8 = 37.5%) terminated a session prematurely due to severe SS. The discomfort ratings (early version SSQ) collected from pilots who terminated prematurely were significantly higher than those from pilots who completed the flight. Among those pilots who completed the flight, there was no significant difference in discomfort ratings between the younger and older groups. Among those pilots who completed the flight, there was also no significant difference in postural equilibrium (SOLEC, WOFEC) between the groups.

Hein (1993) reported the results of 22 separate studies, involving 469 participants of both genders and a wide range of ages, over the course of 6 years. All studies took place in a fixed-base, automobile-driving simulator. Hein stated that age differences in susceptibility to SS were among the most consistent results. "Younger, male drivers adapt easily. Older drivers and women are severely susceptible to simulator sickness" (Hein, p. 611).

This study here suggests the number is as high as 67% of adults and 56% of children, in direct correlation to videogames:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00221-011-2993-4#/page-2

Want me to keep digging up studies?
A navy flight simulator is not the same as sitting at a desk, it involves an actual moving machine that you sit in, that simulates extreme flight conditions, it's not relevant to what we're discussing

As for the other study, what was the sample size? What pool did they draw from? It means nothing unless we know these bits of information, the article is behind a paywall. For all we know, they could have recruited people who self reported as susceptible to motion sickness. The abstract doesn't say in general 67% of people get motion sick, is says 67% of their participants did. We need to know where they got their participants from
 
They are not threatening. They are exercising their freedom of choice, the freedom that all consumers have.

I acknowledge that it frustrates you, but unless you genuinely empathize with them, they have no incentive to empathize with you and argue rationally with you.

Uh, okay. One can exercise freedom of choice without announcing it. When you do announce it, and attach conditions to your purchase, that's a threat.

You seem to confuse "emphatize" with "agree", or perhaps "acquiesce". I would also think that arguing rationally would carry its own incentive. Are you implying that they are irrational? I didn't think so, but you seem to.
 
After watching some video reactions those of kinda funny games, they give a example were in the game the character sits in a chair and has his eye removed then changed for a new one with a type of scope ability. I do agree that a scene like that is epic in first person. With that said I still reject the idea of only fps seing that a scene could be done as a interactive cutscene like the opening of mgs5. Further more on young yea's channel he adds in his video at e3 that he indeed remembers posting a video with insight a few years ago that the game originally started with 3rd then went with both and now its only 1rst. He indeed said it could be due to funding they're going with 1rst. I dont know about that. I still think both views should be in since the gameplay has been done for it supposedly. I dont find it fair that a game at this caliber should limit to only one fan base.
 
A navy flight simulator is not the same as sitting at a desk, it involves an actual moving machine that you sit in, that simulates extreme flight conditions, it's not relevant to what we're discussing

As for the other study, what was the sample size? What pool did they draw from? It means nothing unless we know these bits of information, the article is behind a paywall. For all we know, they could have recruited people who self reported as susceptible to motion sickness. The abstract doesn't say in general 67% of people get motion sick, is says 67% of their participants did. We need to know where they got their participants from

For reference, this is a navy flight simulator, as you can see it's extremely different from sitting at a desk and simulates extreme conditions
 
it is in games third-person view is more consistent with real human vision as a wider view creates a semblance of peripheral side vision. a first-person view is limited by the screen frame.

That doesn't make any sense to be honest.
 
Want to make a first person game, no problem! But listen. People are asking for a third. It's not something sky-high. A small piece of code, a little more attention to the animation and appearance of the character well, more hours to test the game. I understand that it's money and time, well, and swung a little. Since we decided to make a good game, so make a chic! Not too much to ask the players
 
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