FPP only cutscenes might be a deal-breaker for me

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@BluPixel

Perhaps I'm remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure back in or around 2012/2013 the game was being described as FPP and TPP in those early announcement videos that appeared on YouTube.

Either way that isn't what I was referring to but rather that the experience of playing your character is what is being lessened.

Cyberpunk is all about self customization. RPG's are all about role playing and losing yourself in your character, story and world.

It seems clear to me CDPR has accomplished the world and likely story aspect but the character portion appears to me to have been lessened.

Perhaps not from a what was advertised before perspective but certainly from a video game role playing perspective in as much as myself and many others are concerned.
 
My worthless two cents: to keep arguing about this is point is pointless know it has been talked to death. One side wont convince the other is in the right. You made your statement where it could be seen by cd project and what will be done will be done. you dont like, you dont like. Dont preorder but dont say dont buy it at all, you dont know for sure how a game turns our until it comes out. See review than watch some play throughs and take it from there. In the end it might surprise you.
 
In what creative ways can this issue be addressed? Here are a multitude of different ideas I came up with. I have no idea if they're already in the game or if they're too ambitious to consider. If I get any info incorrect, please correct me.

Confirmed features -
1. Mirrors to see character.
2. Character menus
3. Vehicles (motorcycles)
4. Occasional cutscenes.
5. Photo mode
6. You can look down at your legs.

Unconfirmed / unspecified features -
1. If your character is idle for long enough, the camera could go into third person, and show them smoking, leaning against a wall, pacing back and forth, stretching, checking their gun, etc.
2. In relation to #6, I'm unsure of how much you can see of your character when looking down. I hope they let us see most of our body & outfit, like our jacket and shirt, not just our pants and shoes.
3. In relation to #5, hopefully you can take a picture of your characters body/face with your cell phone, if we have one.
4. People could react to what you wear. Maybe depending on the rarity of the clothing, and it's origin, it could influence people's comments on your style. I'm unsure how costly this may be for development. It might be too ambitious.
5. Instead of creating a full-on third person mode, the player could have an option to toggle a temporary third person view for simply checking out their badass character within the active city environment. It could maybe be attached to the photo mode.

what do you guys think? Any suggestions?
 
Confirmed features -
1. Mirrors to see character.
2. Character menus
3. Vehicles (motorcycles)
4. Occasional cutscenes.
5. Photo mode
6. You can look down at your legs.

I will probably be happy with just character menu if I can rotate my character in it. I need to be able to observe and admire my character occasionally. A photo mode would be great. I understand the pros of FPP, but I just need to be reminded who am I playing every once in a while.
 
In what creative ways can this issue be addressed? Here are a multitude of different ideas I came up with. I have no idea if they're already in the game or if they're too ambitious to consider. If I get any info incorrect, please correct me.

Confirmed features -
1. Mirrors to see character.
2. Character menus
3. Vehicles (motorcycles)
4. Occasional cutscenes.
5. Photo mode
6. You can look down at your legs.

Unconfirmed / unspecified features -
1. If your character is idle for long enough, the camera could go into third person, and show them smoking, leaning against a wall, pacing back and forth, stretching, checking their gun, etc.
2. In relation to #6, I'm unsure of how much you can see of your character when looking down. I hope they let us see most of our body & outfit, like our jacket and shirt, not just our pants and shoes.
3. In relation to #5, hopefully you can take a picture of your characters body/face with your cell phone, if we have one.
4. People could react to what you wear. Maybe depending on the rarity of the clothing, and it's origin, it could influence people's comments on your style. I'm unsure how costly this may be for development. It might be too ambitious.
5. Instead of creating a full-on third person mode, the player could have an option to toggle a temporary third person view for simply checking out their badass character within the active city environment. It could maybe be attached to the photo mode.

what do you guys think? Any suggestions?
That's awesome. I think it would also be funny for NPC's to react to V's LACK of clothing as well. But as you have highlighted, plenty of great opportunities to view your own character, which is awesome! :D
 
I'm super confused. People are treating this game as though it isn't an RPG or that an RPG is specifically tied to being in the third person perspective. The two aren't mutually exclusive. An RPG can be as hardcore regardless of perspective.

The fact of the matter is the third person perspective is very difficult to control as evidenced by essentially any game, even shooters, created in the perspective. This becomes increasingly evident in cities or tight environments. One need only look at how Geralt controls in any confined space compared to in an open field.

Controls are very clumsy in TPP when interacting with objects, navigating closed in or populated rooms or shooting.

I mean, many of the most hardcore RPGs are isometric or tabletop. It's not like people said The Witcher series wasn't an RPG because it wasn't in those perspectives or genre. :shrug:

This game takes place in a city, with confined quarters and plenty of shooting (futuristic), thus the optimal perspective to navigate this world, especially designed as they have, would be in the first person.

Furthermore, they've stated that they haven't removed the TPP scenes that were in-game. And they've surely said the opposite in terms of watering down RPG mechanics.

It's funny that people are referring to this game as "Farcry" now because it has the first person perspective. If people want to see how well having the TPP "makes the RPG" people need to look at Fallout 4 and 76. Arguably one of the greatest RPG IPs reduced to a shallow shooter.

Edit: Lastly, for people saying they can't roleplay a character in FPP, that's actually kind of scary. Perspective shouldn't influence the ability to place yourselves in the shoes of a character at all. Are people unable to put themselves in the perspective or shoes of others?
 
It's true that the game being TPP or FPP wouldn't define it as a RPG, however many RPGs do TPP or both. The game is already a shooter as well, put on the FPP for most/all the game and you start to think if it's a shooter with RPG elements rather than RPG with shooter elements.

It makes me worry that when the game comes out it won't be as much of an RPG anymore, more of a Cyberpunk shooter and some dialogue here and there.
 
It's true that the game being TPP or FPP wouldn't define it as a RPG, however many RPGs do TPP or both. The game is already a shooter as well, put on the FPP for most/all the game and you start to think if it's a shooter with RPG elements rather than RPG with shooter elements.

It makes me worry that when the game comes out it won't be as much of an RPG anymore, more of a Cyberpunk shooter and some dialogue here and there.
That is basically what it is now. Again, and people aren't talking about this enough, CDPR is marketing this game as an "action" game now on their official media accounts. RPG elements are just stats and skills, which almost every FPS does these days. Even Call of Duty has skill trees.

If you were expecting this to be as expansive or deep as The Witcher, you will probably be disappointed. If you wanted something like Far Cry or Dishonored in a cyberpunk setting, you probably will be happy with it.
 
I`ll bring The Mad Queen`s YT vid over she also says nothing has changed with there being TP cut scenes .

 
It's true that the game being TPP or FPP wouldn't define it as a RPG, however many RPGs do TPP or both. The game is already a shooter as well, put on the FPP for most/all the game and you start to think if it's a shooter with RPG elements rather than RPG with shooter elements.

It makes me worry that when the game comes out it won't be as much of an RPG anymore, more of a Cyberpunk shooter and some dialogue here and there.

Well you have seen the skill tree, lifepaths, freedom of dialogue choice, customization, open world style exploration, crafting. How can you still think it will only be a shooter first with RPG elements just because of the perspective?
 
@BluPixel

Perhaps I'm remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure back in or around 2012/2013 the game was being described as FPP and TPP in those early announcement videos that appeared on YouTube.

Either way that isn't what I was referring to but rather that the experience of playing your character is what is being lessened.

Cyberpunk is all about self customization. RPG's are all about role playing and losing yourself in your character, story and world.

It seems clear to me CDPR has accomplished the world and likely story aspect but the character portion appears to me to have been lessened.

Perhaps not from a what was advertised before perspective but certainly from a video game role playing perspective in as much as myself and many others are concerned.
Yeah I see however they said it would be FPP TPP hybrid only during pre production (until 2015) .

They probably changed their mind in production before revealing the gameplay to us last year. That's when they said gameplay would be FPP with TPP cut scenes. And people lost their mind back then. We've known the game is FPP with occasional cut scenes for at least a year so I'm not sure why people are suddenly angry again now that they've confirmed nothing has changed since last demo.
 
Well you have seen the skill tree, lifepaths, freedom of dialogue choice, customization, open world style exploration, crafting. How can you still think it will only be a shooter first with RPG elements just because of the perspective?

I said that it didn't define it as an RPG. However, I felt that seeing some of the changes, well more things could be cut out. I said a few pages ago that I don't know CDPR and can't judge them the same way some people here can. So to me, if I see anything that seems like a downgrade or cut after getting close to release well... I get worried. I don't know how much dialogue choice there will be because it's not like I have the game now to see how much it really is throughout the game. Also customization seems limited from what is seen (for now hopefully). So what I'm saying is just I'm worried about what it will be I guess, but because I don't have the game I also can't say it's going to be bad.
 
Controls are very clumsy in TPP when interacting with objects, navigating closed in or populated rooms or shooting.

I mean, many of the most hardcore RPGs are isometric or tabletop. It's not like people said The Witcher series wasn't an RPG because it wasn't in those perspectives or genre. :shrug:

This game takes place in a city, with confined quarters and plenty of shooting (futuristic), thus the optimal perspective to navigate this world, especially designed as they have, would be in the first person.

What? controls can be clumsy in any game both in TPP or FPP, i never had a problem with control in TPP or that they was so clumsy as you say.

Max Payne game is set in urban setting and have good shooting, Vanquish sci fi game with good TPP shooting, The Division also set in city with good shooting, all of these games are good and TPP work great in them.
 
They better give us lot of options to customize our legs then. More than face I hope. Because this "deep customization system" they have showed us in Deep Dive is a joke in comparison to what they hint in previous demo.

Lol I want some beautiful asf legs, perfectly sculpted now.
As well as some amazing hands
 
open world style exploration, crafting.

When did you see that ??????

Also skill tree many FPS now have some skill tree, nothing new like many say new idea for FPS game to emulate RPG.

Lifepaths that add some shortcuts in dialogue mostly and maybe different starting location, nice but nothing so great Pillars have same system, mostly add small shortcuts in dialogus and events but nothing to great.

Open World Style exploration is not really exclusive RPG thing.
 
I said that it didn't define it as an RPG. However, I felt that seeing some of the changes, well more things could be cut out. I said a few pages ago that I don't know CDPR and can't judge them the same way some people here can. So to me, if I see anything that seems like a downgrade or cut after getting close to release well... I get worried. I don't know how much dialogue choice there will be because it's not like I have the game now to see how much it really is throughout the game. Also customization seems limited from what is seen (for now hopefully). So what I'm saying is just I'm worried about what it will be I guess, but because I don't have the game I also can't say it's going to be bad.

Frankly you shouldn't be too worried on that part. They did cut some RPG features but it's mostly still an RPG from what I can tell (choice of build, multiple approaches to the story etc...). I mean if you consider Deus Ex an RPG then CP2077 isn't any less an RPG as they look pretty similar. The only major RPG content that we know they have cut are "chilhood hero" and "why have you come to Night City" roleplay options.

As for customization, they claimed that they are working on expanding the choices for the player to define their character. I assume the CC we see in the last video is just a WIP of the new iteration.
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When did you see that ??????

Also skill tree many FPS now have some skill tree, nothing new like many say new idea for FPS game to emulate RPG.

Lifepaths that add some shortcuts in dialogue mostly and maybe different starting location, nice but nothing so great Pillars have same system, mostly add small shortcuts in dialogus and events but nothing to great.

Open World Style exploration is not really exclusive RPG thing.

Welp, lifepaths will most likely work like dragon age origins' origins. They will alter some missions, how npcs interact with you, endings, maybe romances and so on, according to them. I doubt it will just be "shortcut" dialogues.

You can see the crafting tab in the last video and it was confirmed a while ago.
 
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