FPP only cutscenes might be a deal-breaker for me

[Guest 4310777]

There are a few different discussions happening here.

Firstly, some people doubting the value of FPP. Well, imagine for a moment you have a desk covered in physical objects. You can pick up any object on the desk, examine it, drop it, throw it, break it. You could add it to your inventory for selling, or crafting, or whatever else. You can click and drag the mouse to open the drawers in the desk. You can get as close as you want to anything in the game.

Now, compare that experience with TPP. You are zoomed right out steering your character around, the act of merely selecting a specific object on a cluttered desk would be impossible, not to mention the rest.

I always thought the classic stats based RPG model was just something borrowed from pen and paper to approximate what couldn't be properly simulated in video games. All the old RPG's were simple point and click types. These days of course combat can be more fully simulated and players can be given complete agency over the outcome, but many people hate that because they don't want to be transported into the game per se, they want the relaxing old school experience of guiding and shaping an avatar of their design. It's the difference between the RPG purists and people who think about RPG as "the best we can do to simulate an alternative reality and transport ourselves into it." The manifestation of the latter concept is going to be constantly evolving with new technology, one day most new RPGs will be VR exclusive, and you will get people crying out for the classic screen experience.

 

[dogukans]

Even in Witcher 3 the game provides so many meaningful choices which affect main story, fate of major characters and world state.

We are talking about the same game right? The game that only five decisions in a game may last more than 100 hours depending on your play style determining the ending. And no, none of them but

Spoiler

taking Ciri to her father

are meaningful and don't get it why they did effected the ending anyways

 

[Secretz]

I don't deny Baldur's Gate is one of the most beloved RPG. Of course it could be called RPG but adding 'true' term is another problem.

RPG is genre about role-playing. If your choice can't change anything, or change very subtle things and that's it, your choice is meaningless. In BG, choice is all but illusional. Even in Witcher 3 the game provides so many meaningful choices which affect main story, fate of major characters and world state.

This is why I don't consider Baldur's gate as "True" rpg(I hate using this word though). And again, the game can be called RPG for sure. It's relative.

So by your definition, a game like, say, Final Fantasy 7 isn't a "true" RPG, but the upcoming Dying Light 2 is? You play the role of the lead protagonist Aiden and the decisions you make can have major ramifications, like gameworld altering or life and death. That meets your criteria to be a "true" RPG, right?

 

[Bondaebu]

The game that only five decisions

My statement is not only about ending. Don't you see fate of major characters and world state? Read carefully please.

upcoming Dying Light 2 is?

Yeah I can see the possibility Dying Light 2 could be called as an RPG. Devs actually hired Chris Avellone (the writer of Torment, Fallout, Ice Wind Dale, Pillars of Eternity, etc)

 

[dogukans]

So by your definition, a game like, say, Final Fantasy 7 isn't a "true" RPG, but the upcoming Dying Light 2 is? You play the role of the lead protagonist Aiden and the decisions you make can have major ramifications, like gameworld altering or life and death. That meets your criteria to be a "true" RPG, right?

We can also add Quantic Dream, Telltale and text based choice games to this. These games are "True RPG" games then?

 

[Sild]

My statement is not only about ending. Don't you see fate of major characters and world state? Read carefully please.




Yeah I can see the possibility Dying Light 2 could be called as an RPG. Devs actually hired Chris Avellone (the writer of Torment, Fallout, Ice Wind Dale, Pillars of Eternity, etc)

Personally, I think Dying Light 2 is missing a few things to be called an RPG, but, in terms of meaningful gameplay and story altering choices (which is a pillar of RPG's) , it looks to be miles above most of the those "classic" RPG's.

 

[CyberBobber]

I think its going to be fun to see how sex scenes are made in first person. Almost like stripclubs? You view your partners extremely objectively. But that sounds Cyberpunk if asked from me.

Oh damn.. GTA did it already.

I liked that BJ, Cyberpunk definitely should be more rough. maybe put some rock music on the background etc. Spanking. Put your hands around her neck and that kind of stuff. TIe their hands. Thats way to to do it for Cyberpunk.

 

[Rasuka]

Mirror - You can only see yourself from the front and the mirrors will not be that often.
Motorcycle - Here you see yourself only from behind and only if you drive a motorcycle in TPP.
Inventory - Yes Here's the place where you can admire your self-created character. In the inventory....
Photo Mode - So far there is no information on how it works.
TPP Cutscenes - That was my hope to see my character occasionally.
Scenes like those in the elevator or in the morning as V wakes up but they seem history now.

"We can confirm that last year's cutscenes have been replaced by new FPP scenes (which are not 100% the same, they can be very different), there will be some short transitions, for example during a sex scene, but it's mostly first-person. "

Quelle


Yes, I know there will still be TPP cutscenes, but less than many hoped for, and that is very disappointing in my opinion.

 

[Bondaebu]

We can also add Quantic Dream, Telltale and text based choice games to this. These games are "True RPG" games then?

It can be distinguished whether game devs wanted player to experience the game as an RPG or not.

Telltale and Quantic Dream games aren't the case. Because that games don't provide the feel that the character is players themselves or their avatar, or at least motivation to players willingly pretend to. (It can be materialized by character progression, freedom of solving quests, etc.) The devs of the games(Telltale, QD) even didn't try to. So these games aren't seen as RPGs.

 

[dogukans]

I think its going to be fun to see how sex scenes are made in first person. Almost like stripclubs? You view your partners extremely objectively. But that sounds Cyberpunk if asked from me.

FPP sex scenes are good if your character is a male, for further example check GTA V

But if your character is a straight female, you're going to see only a man saying "oh yeah" (unless you can see your entire body*). Lesbian one might be enjoyable tho.

Side note: Since I am male, I don't know female's experience about FPP sexual intercourse so this might be wrong of course. I'm just guessing

 

[Bondaebu]

I think Dying Light 2 is missing a few things to be called an RPG

Yeah so I just see the possibility.

 

[CyberBobber]

FPP sex scenes are good if your character is a male, for further example check GTA V

But if your character is a straight female, you're going to see only a man saying "oh yeah" (unless you can see your entire body*). Lesbian one might be enjoyable tho.

Side note: Since I am male, I don't know female's experience about FPP sexual intercourse so this might be wrong of course. I'm just guessing

They need to bring some whips and handcuffs for female characters and such. Sure, you can do some stuff with females too.

 

[Dr. LaBrat]

"We can confirm that last year's cutscenes have been replaced by new FPP scenes (which are not 100% the same, they can be very different), there will be some short transitions, for example during a sex scene, but it's mostly first-person. "

Quelle


Yes, I know there will still be TPP cutscenes, but less than many hoped for, and that is very disappointing in my opinion.

hey so outstar, madqueen and all the other cyberpunk youtubers were wrong again? wow what a big surprise. /s

they changed already existing 3rd person cutscenes and replaced them with fpp cutscenes.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Firstly, some people doubting the value of FPP. Well, imagine for a moment you have a desk covered in physical objects. You can pick up any object on the desk, examine it, drop it, throw it, break it. You could add it to your inventory for selling, or crafting, or whatever else. You can click and drag the mouse to open the drawers in the desk. You can get as close as you want to anything in the game.

Now, compare that experience with TPP. You are zoomed right out steering your character around, the act of merely selecting a specific object on a cluttered desk would be impossible, not to mention the rest.

What? what you say depend a lot from developers if they program game for that, you can even in TPP to pick all objects from that desk and examine it closely, camera would move close to your hand so you can see object much better, or it would zoom in as your character open a drawer. it would not be imposible to do things like that in TPP.

 

[immessingaround]

i swear to god if CDPR keeps using the word immersion im just gonna buy this game used. what a bunch of hogwash

 

[dogukans]

Because that games don't provide the feel that the character is players themselves or their avatar

I wonder how did you get this from "role-playing", I don't see any reason why "role-playing" should limited to creating and acting like yourself in a game but not acting like other character provided by game or creating and acting like a character from other thing.

If I get it right, your criteria about RPG games is role playing and effect of choices (not stats, not creation screen, not skill tree, not inventory etc). If we consider RPG this way, Detroit: Become Human is damn good true real RPG game. Your choices can make massive effect for not only you, but your companions, other characters and even the world.

It can be distinguished whether game devs wanted player to experience the game as an RPG or not.

So we can consider CP2077 as non-RPG at all since game seems evolved to FPP game with some RPG elements?

or at least motivation to players willingly pretend to

Well IDK you but most people if not all enjoying playing as Connor for DBH and I don't think they would change him with someone else.

 

[Wenceslaus]

Greetings, all. I almost never write in forums but feel strongly enough about this issue that I'd like to offer a few of my opinions.

With complete respect to developers everywhere, who pour their hearts and souls into their games, I think it's important to realize that this game, and all others, are made for the players, not the developers. If the players are happy with what the developers produce, then everyone wins; the players will sing the developers' praises potentially for years to come. This is especially important if the developers are considering DLC -- or other games, for that matter -- in the future. If the players are not happy, then everyone loses, the developers most of all. It affects their reputation among the gaming community and also hits their bottom line -- a double whammy. Gamers have long memories and are slow to forgive.

Bioware made the decision to protect the "artistic integrity" of the writers telling the story of Mass Effect -- and completely botched the ending of arguably one of the most beloved series in the history of computer gaming. I would venture to say that this was the beginning of the end for them; IMHO, they have never recovered. Artistic integrity is never worth disappointing the players.

Immersion is to me the wrong focus. What I seek from the games I play is engagement. To again use Mass Effect as an example, I found the interface to be sufficiently immersive, and from the videos released so far, it's clear that CDPR have excelled in this. But what made Mass Effect so compelling to me personally was to see the character I had created in the cut scenes, interacting with NPCs, and generally living out the consequences of my choices. It didn't matter that there was only one male and one female voice; this visibility of my created character made the experience of each playthrough *mine*. An FPP-entirely, or even -mostly, perspective would have significantly diminished the impact for me and, thus, the engagement. Less engagement = less fun, less interest in repeated playthroughs, and less interest in whatever future the game may have.

The bottom line -- and what I feel the mantra should be for every game developer -- is this: if at all feasible and possible, strive to give the players what they want. The consequences for not doing so are never good (or as profitable as they might have been) and are potentially devastating. Anthem may never hit its stride, and it's a rare developer that can recover from an initial release like that of No Man's Sky.

I strongly disagree.
I think that developers should do the game like they are doing it for themselves. Listening to feedback and perhaps made some changes where it is possible and they feel to, sure, but rather tend to stick with their vision as much as they can.
That way, original game ideas have a chance. Ideas that players would never though might work. It might sound risky... and it is... but alternative is doing some multiplayer action sims with battle royale (in 3rd person of course) with micro-transaction or what the current summer hit was.

And since I do have faith in CDPR to make a solid game I would rather their version of the game, than the one of the public popular opinions.

Not that I agree with everything - I had my concerns towards the gunplay and RPG and such, but if they think this is the best way and suits the whole vision of the game then be it. I will wait and try it.

 

[Bondaebu]

If I get it right, your criteria about RPG games is role playing and effect of choices (not stats, not creation screen, not skill tree, not inventory etc).

You didn't get it right. Stats, skills, perks are also important rpg elements. And these features are also part of role-playing because, imagine you want to become sword master. So you would fight with sword right? Then how would you materialize your sword skill is improved in video game? Yes, It can be materialized through skills. This is some kind of reward for your role-playing.

And I said role-playing is core of RPG that's for sure, but it doesn't mean other features are completely irrelevant, okay?

So we can consider CP2077 as non-RPG at all since game seems evolved to FPP game with some RPG elements?

Can you explain to me why the game going to FPP suddenly means the game is not RPG anymore? I'm confused.

Ultima Underworld is FPP and is an RPG, Wizardry is FPP and is an RPG, Deus Ex is FPP and is an RPG, Kingdom come Deliverance is FPP and is an RPG..

Well IDK you but most people if not all enjoying playing as Connor for DBH and I don't think they would change him with someone else.

That's why Become Human isn't RPG

 

[Guest 4310777]

I strongly disagree.
I think that developers should do the game like they are doing it for themselves. Listening to feedback and perhaps made some changes where it is possible and they feel to, sure, but rather tend to stick with their vision as much as they can.
That way, original game ideas have a chance. Ideas that players would never though might work. It might sound risky... and it is... but alternative is doing some multiplayer action sims with battle royale (in 3rd person of course) with micro-transaction or what the current summer hit was.

And since I do have faith in CDPR to make a solid game I would rather their version of the game, than the one of the public popular opinions.

Not that I agree with everything - I had my concerns towards the gunplay and RPG and such, but if they think this is the best way and suits the whole vision of the game then be it. I will wait and try it.

I think games made with passion are always better games, devs should definately go with their vision. So much debate about what an RPG is, and if CDPR should be making one.. well, honestly I don't really care about the definition of RPG, and CDPR should make whatever they want to make. I don't know if I will like it until I play but, I'm very optimistic about 2077.

 

[Rawls]

These games are "True RPG" games then?

I would say yes they are rpgs ... even if they dont feel like it in the mechanical sense. They are roleplaying in the strictest sense of the word.