FPP/TPP Perspective Thread OPEN. Be NICE.

[EngryEngineer]

It is really refreshing to see a game developer make decisions based on their vision instead of market trends. I agree TPP or TPP/FPP would sell more copies, but the creators feel that their game gives the best experience in FPP. If this was a feature people didn't care so much about (like loot boxes or radio towers) we'd all be praising CDPR for making the version that plays best instead of the version that sells best.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

The Witcher series sold 33 millions in 10 years, Skyrim sold 30 millions in 5 years, GTA 5 sold 90-100 millions in 5 years.

Both Skyrim and GTA have option to play in FPP or TPP

When you sale some product, you want that many people buy that product, not to sale it less, Obsidian say they know people want TPP and Mods, support but they don't have money and now if Microsoft calculate that adding TPP and Mods support will bring them more buyers, they going to give money to Obsidian to add TPP and Mods.

Tom Clancy's The Division on second year had 20 millions players, that's are 20 millions copy in just 2 years.

Can Cyberpunk 2077 sale well? sure it can, would more people buy it if game have TPP option probably yes.

 

[diegodelmonico]

While I would vastly prefer TP, I doubt the choice of perspective would hurt sales as much as you suggest. Skyrim and the Bethesda Fallouts have TP-options, but the majority of players seems to stay in FP. Both sold extremely well.

Also, Far Cry 5 (I know, FPS with RPG-elements) sold very well and Cyberpunk 2077 might just appeal to that demographic.

Fallout has TPP and its enough to be not be at CP2077 side in this debate.

Far Cry is a good example, and it has the best crowd for CP2077 IMO. But it is not an orthodox consolidated crowd. Anyway, even that, it would be Far Cry, Borderlands and Deus Ex, it would hardly bigger than The Witcher 3, Fallout 4 or Skyrim. Even considering the masterpieces among them.

It's not it's advertised feature and among the worst TPP out there.

In YOUR opinion.

It is really refreshing to see a game developer make decisions based on their vision instead of market trends .

[Nope.] Market is a system that allows people to create stuff to solve other people problems. Medicine, Food, Beverages, Entertainment....

 

[sv3672]

I doubt FPP is that much of an issue for sales, other FPP-only games sell well and receive very little criticism for the particular reason of not supporting TPP. It might be more of an issue that existing fans (of CDPR games) from the Witcher series are used to TPP already, so there is understandably some disappointment, but it does not seem to be the kind of major controversy that would really affect if a game is successful. Of course, if CP2077 is actually better overall with the FPP design, that is also a factor that increases sales.

 

[Poison19]

I never heard about "perspective is main thing that sells games". I thought that people enjoying every perspective if the game is good huh.

 

[diegodelmonico]

I doubt FPP is that much of an issue for sales, other FPP-only games sell well and receive very little criticism for the particular reason of not supporting TPP.

The survey is around there. If you find you can do analyses as you wish and prove me wrong.

I never heard about "perspective is main thing that sells games". I thought that people enjoying every perspective if the game is good huh.

It is not the main and it is just part of what I said. But there are people that prefer FPP and people that hate it or don't even play FPP games. All this fuzz about it here is already a proof of that.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Many fans don't care about CP2077 and want CDPR to finish CP2077 and start working on Witcher 4.

Also CDPR don't like when some one say that CP2077 is FPS, maybe they should have said to Youtubers and Game Journalist who see E3 demo say that game is RPG, but no all Youtubers and Game Journalist say game is FPS, how is same as Borderlands not even one talk how game is RPG even now sites say CP2077 is FPS.

So yes if they wanted to get more people from COD, Battlefield and other FPS, out they i can see why they pick FPP.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

It is really refreshing to see a game developer make decisions based on their vision instead of market trends.

THIS.

Same as RDR2 and all those "useless" animation: for some people are boring, but for rockstar and people who loved the game, are one of the most immersive thing ever seen in a videogame and part of what elevates the game to masterpiece. Maybe it will sell a little less, but people will remeber it forever. I really hope CDPR will be brave enough to take unpopular decisions as the absence of TPP for some RPG mechanics as well and make it more similar to an immersive sim, if this is their vision. Some people will complain, but if the game is good, it will be awarded and remembered forever.

Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2019

maybe they should have said to Youtubers and Game Journalist who see E3 demo say that game is RPG

all the journalist said it's a FPP action RPG, the 48 minute demo they saw says it clearly as well. Who said FPS?

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

On this side was poll about TPP/FPP, TPP was first on the poll and after that option to have both TPP/FPP, if that was not a hint that people want both TPP/FPP i am not sure what they need more, and that was just poll on this site, i am sure many other also would be happy with both TPP/FPP.

Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2019

Who said FPS?

IGN for example.

Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2019

I am sorry if you don't want to accept, but 48 minute demo didn't show nothing RPG like, it show FPS gameplay with few abilities from other FPS.

 

[diegodelmonico]

So yes if they wanted to get more people from COD, Battlefield and other FPS, out they I can see why they pick FPP.

Have you ever seem how a typical FPS player reacts to quest pick and given? They can't even hide their enthusiasm. Although most of them purchase games for online competitive playing. That's why COD always sell far better than Far Cry.

 

[EngryEngineer]

[Nope.] Market is a system that allows people to create stuff to solve other people problems. Medicine, Food, Beverages, Entertainment....

Are you arguing that a product creator should compromise the quality/vision of their product as an obligation to serve the greater needs of the market? That sounds like the worst of Capitalism and Communism mashed together.

 

[sv3672]

The survey is around there. If you find you can do analyses as you wish and prove me wrong.

Forum polls are not a very reliable source for market analysis, it is a small sample of people here with a bias towards long time Witcher fans (who are obviously used to TPP), and there is also a bias towards those who do not agree with the FPP decision, as they are the ones who want a change, while people who are fine with FPP (or do not care either way) are less likely to participate in the poll in the first place.

In the end, the first priority is to make the game the best possible, compromising quality for the sake of chasing apparent market trends is an approach that may or may not pay off, and one might say it is not how CDPR became successful.

 

[Sild]

I doubt FPP is that much of an issue for sales, other FPP-only games sell well and receive very little criticism for the particular reason of not supporting TPP. It might be more of an issue that existing fans (of CDPR games) from the Witcher series are used to TPP already, so there is understandably some disappointment, but it does not seem to be the kind of major controversy that would really affect if a game is successful. Of course, if CP2077 is actually better overall with the FPP design, that is also a factor that increases sales.

Most people don't care about sales or how well a company is or isn't doing. If the products they make somehow "solve" their problems then creativity be damned. That's the reason you see things like "Cp2077 is FPS" or "it won't sell well without x/y/z" these type of sansationalist statements serve no purpose other than creating enough of a crapfest so they can impose their own views on something in hopes of changing the outcome. Thank God CDPR are better than that.

 

[diegodelmonico]

Are you arguing that a product creator should compromise the quality/vision of their product as an obligation to serve the greater needs of the market? That sounds like the worst of Capitalism and Communism mashed together.

I just said that your view is pessimistic regarding what is the marketing and why companies exist. I have a good example. For years I was in the musical production business. The real reason for an artist said that its musical view is more important than pleasing their audience, is that they failed to make an emotional connection with their audience through their music. Which is bad music, and few people like it only by chance.

Forum polls are not a very reliable source for market analysis .

I am not saying about forum pools. Is a professor from an American university that published a scientific paper in a well-respected journal, and published the data as a xls file. It is a huge amount of data. Sorry I don't remember the name or have the file anymore. I would be pleased to share. But it is around there.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

IGN for example.

I am sorry if you don't want to accept, but 48 minute demo didn't show nothing RPG like, it show FPS gameplay with few abilities from other FPS.

Really? IGN says so?

• CD Projekt describes the game as a "first-person RPG."

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/06/12/e3-2018-first-cyberpunk-2077-details-game-is-a-first-person-rpg-more

minute 1:00 "This is a RPG" while it shows character creation with stats. Minute 2:00 "Cp2077 is a first-person role-playing game". twice in the first 2 minutes, I'm not watching it all again just to find more.

Only people claiming CP2077 is "just an FPS" are disappointed isometric RPG fans on the internet. And perspective has nothing to do with role-playing. CP2077 will be as RPG as witcher 3, probably even more since you create your V (to some extent)

 

[diegodelmonico]

or "it won't sell well without x/y/z" these type of sansationalist statements serve no purpose other than creating enough of a crapfest so they can impose their own views on something in hopes of changing the outcome. Thank God CDPR are better than that.

It was not me that start arguing about the sales. I just argue back. And I never said that CP would sell poorly. I said it is a tough market space they will be. I hope they do fine. I won't purchase. I suffer from motion sickness. But I will try to play surelly.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Last CoD Black Ops 4 make 500 millions in 3 day with no campaign just multiplayer and Battle Royale.

CP2077 at first was just Singleplayer game, and now they make Multiplayer with Battle Royale probably.

I never was that CDPR take away FPP and just do TPP, i always say option for both would be great, i also would support any people who want FPP in TPP game, i respect anyone who like FPP and finde it more Immersive and fun, for me and other TPP is more fun and Immersive.

Would it be hard to make TPP yeah sure it going to be, but lets be honest if developers wanted easy jobs, they should work other jobs, thats why i say ok if they don't make TPP for game releases, but after 6 months why not?

Will i try CP2077 yes if game is good and more RPG, will i have fun in FPP maybe 20% if game is really good, would i instal TPP mod yes i would and probably would have 100% more fun.

But there are people who not even going to try game in FPP, like there is people who not even going to try game in TPP.

 

[EngryEngineer]

I just said that your view is pessimistic regarding what is the marketing and why companies exist. I have a good example. For years I was in the musical production business. The real reason for an artist said that its musical view is more important than pleasing their audience, is that they failed to make an emotional connection with their audience through their music. Which is bad music, and few people like it only by chance.

My view is largely based on a mix of optimism with a touch of pragmatism. I do feel that artists/creators have a complex set of goals they need to achieve that vary by individual/market footprint/etc. We have a giant global marketplace that can support projects of a variety of scales. Success through niche markets is viable, not everything needs to have mass market appeal. We do know for a fact that MANY decisions in the game industry are motivated solely by profitability, we know this by the public statements by the companies to their investors and even sometimes to the public. CDPR has a large enough footprint in the market and enough success behind them to fuel marketing that they can leverage to sell a game that adequately rewards their efforts without necessarily chasing consumer whims. Many game companies don't see a difference between "enough customers" and "all the customers," actively reducing risk by genericism and market appeasement or eliminating entire properties to focus on making tremendous profits instead of good profits. Instead CDPR can make the product they feel makes the strongest connection with their customers while accepting that not all customers will feel that way. If every creator did this then every consumer would be able to find plenty of things that supply more value to them personally rather than subsisting on things that provide the specific consumer meager value in favor of value to consumers-as-a-whole.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

CP2077 at first was just Singleplayer game, and now they make Multiplayer with Battle Royale probably.

absolutely not true, it has always been a single player game with a multiplayer modality (search for slides from 2013 and they got funds from poland for seemless multiplayer R&D back then) which will be released AFTER launch. For battle royale, microtransactions and shit like that, who knows. Doesn't seem likely, but yeah, that shit sells.

P.S. good luck with TPP mods, it's going to be worse than bethesda's with little to no animation.

 

[Sild]

I suffer from motion sickness.

A fair concern, and they have publicly stated that they are working on ways to counteract the issue. I hope they are successful. Have you tried tinkering with the FoV options that newer FPP games have? I heard it can at times completely counter the sensation.