FPP/TPP Perspective Thread OPEN. Be NICE.

[Danyel_Longbow]

My only hope is if a mod for third person happens, it turns out as well as this...

...rather than as twitchy as this...

Yes I hope cdpr gives enough mods tool so decent modders can make mods like the borderlands one. That said the mirriors edge one is twitchy because well it's a parkour game so twitchy like that is too be expected I guess.

@Nikola_Nesic

Vr isn't anymore gimmicky than simpits...the word you are looking for is niche. Right now VR is more niche but it isn't going away this time around.

It's sad people are fooling themselves into thinking cdpr is making some kind of mistake that will hurt their bottom line, they are not and I think pre order sales is showing that.

Anyways I think I made my points pretty clear so will move on for from this thread for awhile as I don't see any point to keep going on a circular discussion.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

It's sad people are fooling themselves into thinking cdpr is making some kind of mistake that will hurt their bottom line, they are not and I think pre order sales is showing that.

Anyways I think I made my points pretty clear so will move on for from this thread for awhile as I don't see any point to keep going on a circular discussion.

Honestly, i don't care even if CDPR go bankrupt after this, they are not my friends, i don't know them they don't know me, simple as that, they made one game trilogy and that's it, they are not god of gaming industry, pre-orders don't prove anything.

As i say beffore i am happy for all of you who like FPP, great for you i just say i would like TPP later down the line for me and other who like it, i am fine without 16 free DLC if that mean i get TPP or mod tool so some modder can make it.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

honestly speaking, if it had been up to me, I would've made the FPP something like this:

Though obviously through modern sensibilities, bells and whistles (that game is from '92).

 

[Snowflakez]

honestly speaking, if it had been up to me, I would've made the FPP something like this:

Though obviously through modern sensibilities, bells and whistles (that game is from '92).

Kofe, I love you to death, but at SOME point you have to make concessions for the modern era. This is not where I'd draw the line by any means. Direct control of your character and their camera is the bare minimum to expect from a modern FPP game of any kind; RPG or otherwise. You can then layer on complex mechanics and abstraction after that. (Which is not necessarily being done in 2077; at least not to the degree you or even I would hope).

I get that you were just offering an alternate opinion, of course, and not saying "this is how the game should have been designed." But it gave me a good chuckle.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I get that you were just offering an alternate opinion, of course, and not saying "this is how the game should have been designed." But it gave me a good chuckle.

There was some intentional jest there, yes, but also an underlying point about the game not needing a rush in its gameplay (which seems to be the core discipline of almost any game these days) or needless portrayal of an entire city that, for the most part, can’t be interacted with.

For a sidenote... That game also had first person driving and flying in it, by the way. Cyberpunk won’t let you fly.

Also, for as long as the ”modern” lags behind its past in all the meaningful ways, no concessions are warranted. First rule of the jungle, man.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Honestly, i don't care even if CDPR go bankrupt after this, they are not my friends, i don't know them they don't know me, simple as that, they made one game trilogy and that's it, they are not god of gaming industry, pre-orders don't prove anything.

I'm not one to be a fan boy but that sounds like a slight overreaction. Admittedly, the lack of third person perspective as an option is a disappointment. I don't buy into arguments claiming it has to be one or the other, or adding additional perspectives somehow detracts from others. Both perspectives could be added. Both could be presented well. Likewise, I don't buy into the immersion arguments. In part because it's a highly subjective area. Also because there are past examples where TPP was the only perspective or included and I still felt immersed in the game. Game play, story-lines, characters, player choices, etc. are larger contributing factors to immersion, IMO.

All of that said, going with a single perspective isn't an absolute disaster. Provided it is implemented properly and, as eluded to earlier, the various game systems immerse me, the player, into the virtual world. I find those other areas to be especially important for an RPG setting. The story-lines, characters, choices, consequences and character agency are what make an RPG an RPG in the first place, in my opinion. These are the areas I'd expect to draw me into the game world.

Once again, it's still a disappointment. Each perspective has various advantages and disadvantages. The option for players to select their preference or freely swap between them would certainly be missed.

 

[mhl333]

Almost 1k comments in this topic and I'm just curious, has anyone changed his mind in this matter after reading somebodys else explanation?

 

[Ancient76]

It's rather interesting that you're under the impression that a third person view would be considered cheating when most FPS players are of the opinion that a third person view is actually a liability in a shooter. So which is it? And if you're right, and I think you are because it seems to be the trend these days, that we get some kind of senses to let us see thru walls, any complaints about making the same allegedly easier are a little too late, so no need to rail against a third person view.

As for it being simple to get a game to work in both perspectives, if Rockstar, Bethesda and even Hello Games can do it, I'm fairly sure the makers of such a quality title as The Witcher 3 (so I'm told) can manage to figure it out.

That TPP is cheating is a fact, not mu opinion. It is so logical that discussing it is unnecessary.

I don't know about Hello Games, but what i saw in Rockstar or Beth games is very bad implementation of both perspectives. Let's say for example that you want to implement ballistic and weapon sway in your game. In FPP that works perfectly, but there's no way to make it to work in TPP.

 

[Secretz]

That TPP is cheating is a fact, not mu opinion. It is so logical that discussing it is unnecessary.

I don't know about Hello Games, but what i saw in Rockstar or Beth games is very bad implementation of both perspectives. Let's say for example that you want to implement ballistic and weapon sway in your game. In FPP that works perfectly, but there's no way to make it to work in TPP.

Believing strongly in something doesn't make it a fact, just a strongly held opinion.
Now, while I don't claim that GTAV, RDR2, Skyrim, Fallout 4 or No Man's Sky are perfect when it comes to handling every aspect of first and third perspective, they definitely handle both well enough to make having the option to switch between the two as the player sees fit a better choice for all instead of choosing one perspective, which would leave those that prefer the other high and dry.

Anyways, focusing on this game specifically...as, according to the developers, this is more RPG than FPS, it's highly doubtful ballistic and weapon sway will have much of an impact in Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Ancient76]

Ballistics and weapon sway can be easily implemented into any RPG, and they fit perfectly. STALKER is an excellent example of this where through improving your weapon you change sway and ballistics intensity. You even have a lot of choices here, branching.

Btw, RPG is not something with specific rules that you must follow. The same apply to FPS. This has been mixed many times as you know.

 

[Snowflakez]

Almost 1k comments in this topic and I'm just curious, has anyone changed his mind in this matter after reading somebodys else explanation?

On this topic, likely not.

On other topics, absolutely. I know because I've done so.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Hard to really tell if people’ve really changed their minds since the same topics circle around with the same core arguments.

 

[imitenotbecrazy]

As far as "cheating" with TPP, if multiplayer actually happens and we're talking competitive deathmatch type things TPP can absolutely be exploited. In the single player part of the game, it's irrelevant

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Even in multiplayer if both player have TPP they are on equal footing, Division have pvp zone.

 

[JMB96815]

Almost 1k comments in this topic and I'm just curious, has anyone changed his mind in this matter after reading somebodys else explanation?

I am now more open to melee combat in FPP after hearing some good games that other people have mentioned as I was very skeptical that melee combat in that perspective could be even that good, much less possibly great. I am still concerned that combat will be way too easy with guns and FPP (I am very proficient in this type of combat but in contrast completely sucked at Witcher 3 TPP combat at high difficulty) but I have some faith in difficulty settings so it's not a huge concern.

 

[slimjambo]

First, I understand CDPR's artistic stance on FPP vs. TPP. I respect it, and I understand that a lot of people who are hoping for a multi-player mode do not want TPP. I totally get that. If the FOV slider makes it into the game, I think that'll be a great addition.

That said, I can't play FPP games anymore. They make me physically ill. They make a lot of people physically ill, as an effect of simulator sickness.

I have loved the Witcher games, and was really looking forward to CP77. Even if CDPR decide that TPP will not be an option, I hope someday they'll change their minds and enable it for single-player, at least.

Please understand that for those of us who suffer from this motion sickness, we can't control it. We can't overcome it. Calling us weak, feeble, or whatever - none of that will change it. I can understand that if you don't suffer from it, perhaps it seems like a controllable weakness. I assure you it's not.

We still want to enjoy what appears to be a real epic of a game. Please, give us some hope here. If not yourselves, through a 3rd party mod.

Thank you.

 

[imitenotbecrazy]

Even in multiplayer if both player have TPP they are on equal footing, Division have pvp zone.

"equal footing" being if both parties chose to "cheat" lol

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

That said, I can't play FPP games anymore. They make me physically ill. They make a lot of people physically ill, as an effect of simulator sickness.

Can be healed, but it need months of reeducation.

 

[slimjambo]

Can be healed, but it need months of reeducation.

No, it cannot.

 

[Danyel_Longbow]

This kind of thing isn't always physical sometimes it's a combination of things that may have started out physical but then became psychological.
https://www.mywanderlustylife.com/permanent-motion-sickness-cure/

For those that it's not... well there some possibility of relief in sight from Otolith Labs. They are currently working with the military on something called the ototech head band. It's being tested is in trial with the military atm for soldiers that get motion sick and have simulation sickness during their VR training.
https://otolithlabs.com/
https://uploadvr.com/ototech-vibrating-headband-vr-sickness/

Those of you that truly suffer from motion sickness, I am sure you are aware that tpp can cause it too just to a far lesser degree, I think your best bet is to push for decent mod support from cdpr.