Freak Show & the Borsodi Brothers [with Bounty]

[4RM3D]

This thread was bound to pop-up sooner or later, so I might as well kick it off. The Syndicate has a lot of cards that perform a little too well, but at its center there are two cards that make it all possible: Freak Show and Borsodi, both capable of insane burst damage, which can cause a lot of trouble when combined with other cards. For example, Apothecary is already a bit overstated, but it creates a too strong combo with Freak Show. Similarly, Borsodi (and Executioners) is also the reason why the Bounty mechanic is a bit too strong.

To fix this, I suggest the following tweaks:
- Freak Show's insanity has a cooldown of 1, but you can pay a Coin for extra pings (and also still losing 1 strength).
- Borsodi doesn't need the secondary effect. However, fixing the burst potential (and that of other cards) isn't as easy. That's why I would suggest a cap on the amount of Coins that can be spend per turn. My suggestion is 6 max per turn.
- Bounties will be collected at the end of your turn (as suggested by Ispyy).

 

[DRK3]

I see somebody saw my post on the syndicate poll thread...

I havent seen anyone yet using Freakshow to its full (OP) potential, but i'll test it tonight and share the results.

On the bounty mechanic, you actually dont need Borsodi at all. Caleb Menge+ Witch Hunter Executioner does the exact same thing, since the Borsodi does 2 dmg for 2 coins, but the Executioner, has long as he targets an unit with Bounty, does 1dmg for 1 coin, so same thing.

I've had my board of big SK units with base strengths of 7,8, 12 wiped in a single turn, since Caleb doesnt have a cooldown, its just destroy and move to the next.

 

[4RM3D]

On the bounty mechanic, you actually dont need Borsodi at all.

Yeah, hence my comment: However, fixing the burst potential (and that of other cards) isn't as easy. Nonetheless, I've edited the thread to specifically mention the Executioners.

[...] since Caleb doesnt have a cooldown, its just destroy and move to the next.

That's why I (also) suggested a cap on the amount of Coins that can be spend per turn.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

I don't think putting a cap on the amount of coins you can spend is a good idea. Why limit that freedom instead of balancing cards? I know CDPR doesn't have the best track-record when it comes to balancing but the op cards in Syndicate stick out like a sore thumb. Hopefully they listen to the community and get that nerf hammer going.

 

[SkiZophreniC]

Borsodi brothers should have Tribute instead of Fee. Keep their ability but avoid this nonsense where you can deal 8 damages with a 7 prov card.

Freak show is ridiculously op, just nerf him straight to 4 pts.

And a cooldown to Caleb ... This is just basic balancing... Pls CDPR be little more serious

 

[DRK3]

So, yeah, ive tried a Freakshow deck, with 2 apotecharies and necromancy and stuff.

It didnt work well because people already figured Freakshow is one of the most dangerous cards in Syndicate, so they do everything to stop it.

Also, lost many times because 80% of the matches were against KoB, using the broken mechanic that is even more OP: Bounties. And they were using Freakshow too, and all other OP cards like that mage and ghoul.

But back to the Freakshow - if it isnt immediately locked, you get 8pt value of apothecaries! And that's without tribute, since i wasnt playing KoB and actually that deck had 0 coin generation!

When you're mulligan golds in search of a bronze, something might be wrong.

 

[tulamide]

To me bounty is the equivalent to Gaunter (give doomed, destroy doomed). Only that Gaunter was a one of its kind, rare and expensive card, whereas bounty is much more versatile, yet cheaper.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

So, yeah, ive tried a Freakshow deck, with 2 apotecharies and necromancy and stuff.

It didnt work well because people already figured Freakshow is one of the most dangerous cards in Syndicate, so they do everything to stop it.

Also, lost many times because 80% of the matches were against KoB, using the broken mechanic that is even more OP: Bounties. And they were using Freakshow too, and all other OP cards like that mage and ghoul.

But back to the Freakshow - if it isnt immediately locked, you get 8pt value of apothecaries! And that's without tribute, since i wasnt playing KoB and actually that deck had 0 coin generation!

When you're mulligan golds in search of a bronze, something might be wrong.

The mages with KoB are so stupid lol. 6 points for 4 provisions and zero coins!

 

[BrokeCiri]

3 Solutions i can think of:
1. What @4RM3D suggested, a coin usage cap per turn.
2. Cooldown for Fee units.
3. Additional keyword for Fee units.
- Greed: For every X Fee usage, increase the Fee cost by 1.
or this can just be added to the Fee description instead and have a fixed X.
- Fee: Trigger this ability by spending the specified number of coins. For every X (3?) Fee usage, increase the Fee cost by 1.

Also Fee damage should be more expensive than Fee boost because damage is more valuable than boost.

 

[Archan6el]

People, let's do some root cause analysis. It's the coin mechanic that is broken. Fix the mechanic: make it interactable, let coins stay at the units who create or obtain them and can give them to other units. Then the opponent has a chance to counter the use of coins, by locking, killing or seizing those units. Yes, it will require quite some rework, but it will fix the biggest problems and make the game more interactive, more interesting and more fun.

 

[BrokeCiri]

People, let's do some root cause analysis. It's the coin mechanic that is broken. Fix the mechanic: make it interactable, let coins stay at the units who create or obtain them and can give them to other units. Then the opponent has a chance to counter the use of coins, by locking, killing or seizing those units. Yes, it will require quite some rework, but it will fix the biggest problems and make the game more interactive, more interesting and more fun.

So Demavend (Charge deck) with zeal.

 

[Archan6el]

So Demavend (Charge deck) with zeal.

Yes, but with the ability to steal coins by killing or seizing units with coins, or directly steal from them like Thaler and Kaedweni Cavalry. This way hoarding coins becomes more risky and the mechanic can be better balanced as coins may be stolen and used by the opponent (very fun for Assimilate or decks with some possible new cards that may use coins as additional ability). Demavend becomes dangerous (and OP) when he is allowed to hoard charges. Charges can actually be changed into coins. Demavend needs to provide coins for soldier's pay and contribute to a dragon's treasure anyway.

 

[static-ghost]

it's too early to talk about nerfs, update is alive only a few days.
People still do not know how to counter new decks, make mistakes and learn to play.
I would prefer buffs to other factions instead.

 

[teddybee_r]

How about
Bounty: only one bounty can be collected every turn
or
Bounty: bounty will be collected at the end of your turn

 

[4RM3D]

How about
Bounty: only one bounty can be collected every turn
or
Bounty: bounty will be collected at the end of your turn

That's also a good suggestion to nerf bounty.

 

[Raziel_888]

Fee could work like orders and need one turn before you can activate it. That would solve a lot of problems i think

 

[Lexor]

What about "update other factions"? Nerfs to one faction will not solve all problems of the others.

Yes, many SY's cards and mechanics are broken, it's clearly visible that CDPR did not do proper testing.
All employed testers should be fired if they couldn't see such basic problems - and if it was the problem of "not enough time" then not the testers but their management (who decided to release this expansion despite all the bugs) should be fired.

I want to have fun, not to be frustrated. Professional testers are paid, I am not.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

I don't really like the idea of a maximum spendable amount of coins per round, as I feel that is far too limiting and will having full coins only useful for Hoard anymore.

Nonetheless, I would like the introduction of more Cooldowns for Fees and the tag Greed for some without a cooldown.
Giving the bounty coins only at the end of the turn seems like a pretty good fix for bounty too.

And in case that it isn't a bug, Insanity and Fee should be disabled by locks.

After that SY should be in a far better state and only single units might have to be nerfed a bit.

 

[kotpeter]

Unpopular opinion here, but pinging out multiple bounty targets in a single turn is very satisfying. It requires some setup (to maximize profit, you'd better deal some damage to enemies beforehand), it requires opponent not playing around Caleb Menge + Executioner, it requires math. Balance-wise it is very strong indeed, but I'd rather see other fractions receive similar cool combos (and buffs overall), than have this one nerfed to the ground. I mean, nerf to bounty mechanic would take so much fun away.

I'd rather remind the majority of people that there are multiple purify units out there that can help you get rid of bounty. But everybody's just so used to carrying max-value cards instead of teching against sth nowadays, and whenever something requires them to make the deck suboptimal value-wise, they start complaining.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

SY needs cooldowns. Spamming out the coin power is just too OP. It's so much better than orders in Northern Realms.

Post automatically merged: Jul 1, 2019

Unpopular opinion here, but pinging out multiple bounty targets in a single turn is very satisfying. It requires some setup (to maximize profit, you'd better deal some damage to enemies beforehand), it requires opponent not playing around Caleb Menge + Executioner, it requires math. Balance-wise it is very strong indeed, but I'd rather see other fractions receive similar cool combos (and buffs overall), than have this one nerfed to the ground. I mean, nerf to bounty mechanic would take so much fun away.

I'd rather remind the majority of people that there are multiple purify units out there that can help you get rid of bounty. But everybody's just so used to carrying max-value cards instead of teching against sth nowadays, and whenever something requires them to make the deck suboptimal value-wise, they start complaining.

I would agree with you however the other factions do not have the great purify cards that SY currently has. Maybe CDPR needs to give the same good cards to the other factions so that they can actually compete.

Buffing the other factions is needed but some nerfs to SY will need to be done in the meantime.