Free education

[hamenaglar]

Free education

In croatia there's going on a bit of a fuss about free education. Some students (philosphy and politics mainly) decided to block all lectures and exams on their colleges, demanding free education on all levels (as high school and elementary are already free, it means they want free faculties (colleges) ). Ofcourse the best students based on preliminary exam will already have the opportunity to study for free (on my faculty it's about 40% of the entry quota). The price of a one year school fee is usally between 1500$ and 1800$ (from my estimation). So this is a bit of the background, what I'm wandering do you guys and girls think college education should be free? I know that in USA and GB fees are massive, but I wonder how it is in other countries and do you think that higher education should be free for all students.

 

[artrerigreyjoy]

No. Paying tuition helps support the school and staff, plus there are programs in place to help kids get into college and pay for it. Anyone can go to college and finding a way to pay for it shows diligence and weeds out those who would only go to college as a way to avoid working for a few more years. Honestly, I think having great colleges fully paid for by the state would be a disaster, seeing California's current state of finances. Without paying tuition, my college probably wouldn't have the resources to stay open, but you never know. But I could see the arguments for making college free. The heavy tuition does, at times, create a division between the proles and the "elite." I think it is very telling to view California's education systems. The free systems- high school, middle school, and elementary- are now rock bottom on the list of the states. However, California's public college systems are some of the best. If California were to pay my tuition and that off all of CalPoly's students, my major would be cut off within a few years. Engineering is not cheap, and California's poor budgeting would not be able to cover the expenses of the many engineering programs that CalPoly /alone/ offers./rant

 

[TC_Coyote]

I know that in USA and GB fees are massive,

Actually that depends on what type of college in the US, and how prominent it is (you'll be paying far more for a "big name" school like Harvard than you would for a state university). Typically a good way to save funds in the US with colleges is to go to a "community college" for your first two years to do all the non-core curriculum (ex: English, math, history, etc) and then transfer to a 4-year college or university to complete your final two years of your major. Community colleges are 2-year schools that are a _lot_ cheaper (provided you're a resident of the area) than full colleges.For example, the school I did my undergraduate and graduate degrees at is currently charging $24,230/year ($32,190 if you're living on campus). The community college I did my first two years at, and which I'm currently working on a one-year post-graduate paralegal certificate at, is currently charging $80.54 per semester hour....estimate a full-time semester as 12 semester hours (12 hours/week of classes, basically), check the chart....so about $966.48/semester. I'm doing summer classes as well...so figure that in terms of tuition, my one year is going to come in at under $3,000 for the year. Bit of a difference there, eh? Also, this doesn't take into account the financial aid options available in the US: scholarships, grants, student loans.....I forget what the cost was when I was there (was less than $24k/year, though!) but I know I never had to pay full price for a semester at the 4-year school. Now, granted also, at any US college/university of any type, this doesn't include books which can easily cost you another couple hundred dollars a semester (textbook prices are insane :dead: )

 

[artrerigreyjoy]

My local community college charges $20 per class per semester. And if you have certain qualifications, it is free. However, the trade off is that the education is not the same. People jokingly call the local CC the "13th grade."If you want a comparison for colleges here, my sister's college is $42,000/ year living on campus. Mine is $17,000/ year living on campus. My sister go to a private school, and mine is a state.

 

[TC_Coyote]

However, the trade off is that the education is not the same. People jokingly call the local CC the "13th grade."

It depends on college, really. One of the science profs at my 4-year college also taught part-time at the local community college. Same basic classes, same prof, but easier on the wallet.Also one thing nice the CC's currently doing (which it didn't a decade ago when I first took some classes at it right out of high school) is that many of its programs (including the one I'm in, which is the primary reason I'm taking it) provide an internship/co-op as part of the program. With the CC or specific department arranging the work experience if necessary. That way, when you complete your program, you've got actual on the job experience instead of just academic -- something my four year school didn't do. Which is why in the 3+ years since I got my MBA, the only work I've had was retail at what my friends have dubbed the "pet store from hell". Anyone actually looking for someone with my education takes one look at my resume and says, "Well, your education's fantastic, but you don't have any work experience. Go find a job at some other company, then come talk to us again once you've gotten experience there first."

 

[artrerigreyjoy]

Well, some colleges do help you with internships. That one of the things I'm planning to do a bit later on. I haven't heard of any companies actively recruiting from a CC, though. So going to a great, hands-on college is definitely a good stepping stone. I'm not saying CC's aren't a great option- they are- but they are certainly less prestigious and have high drop out rates.

 

[Licaon_Kter]

in Romania education is free ( free as in not payed more, but it's payed by the parents anyway with their taxes )

 

[TC_Coyote]

Well, some colleges do help you with internships. That one of the things I'm planning to do a bit later on. I haven't heard of any companies actively recruiting from a CC, though. So going to a great, hands-on college is definitely a good stepping stone. I'm not saying CC's aren't a great option- they are- but they are certainly less prestigious and have high drop out rates.

Well, the higher dropout rates are partly because you get a lot of folks right out of highschool there who are only going to college (any college) because "daddy's making them go to college".Again, depends on the CC though. ....CC I'm at is apparently one of the major sources for ABA-approved paralegal training in the US, and has received complements from various firms, particularly in regards to the focus spent on proper research and legal citation methods. One of the classes I'm finishing up now is "Basic Legal Research and Drafting", in other words: How to research using a law library. My sister's a law school graduate, who passed the Nevada Bar Exam last year, and her reaction was, "Wait, they're having you look things up in law books? I don't know if I could do that. All of my classes used the online (usually expensive to access) services." Which is perfectly fine if you're in a large firm that can afford the rates those two services charge, but if not.... There's a reason why the lawyers teaching the classes regularly comment that the paralegals and secretaries are the ones who actually get all the work done in the law firm (One of the profs, a retired lawyer, has a theory that progress occurs in law firms only when the secretary flings herself across the latest draft of a document, screaming, "It's done! Stop demanding revisions! Just mail it already!" while threatening the lawyers with a letter opener. )Also depends on what major you're talking about. I mean, an Associates or certificate in paralegal studies is pretty much a standard, Bachelors in the subject are much rarer. But, say, something like Anthropology, good luck finding work in that field without a Masters or PhD (as my sister discovered early on, given that was her original major prior to law school). ....actually, MSN recently did an article on what they consider to be the top 6 Associates Degree majors (mostly based on salary, with the qualifier being a $50,000/year average salary for someone with the 2-year degree), I'll try and locate it once I get home from class and post the link here.

 

[Corylea.723]

Northeastern University, here in Boston, has a co-op program, where students go to classes some semesters and work in their field during other semesters. It's a regular four-year university, not a community college, so it has the reputation advantage of a four-year university and the hands-on experience that's usually only offered at community colleges. It tends to attract unusually practical students.

 

[wisielec]

All (almost) education is free in Poland.You can go from primary/grade (and now there are some changes here - college/grammar school) then highschool and then to university (4-6 years). I ment public, right? Tahere are also Private schools and other universities that you pay for.And I think that paying for education is discrimination. All education should be free for those who want to learn. Period. You see the educational system worked pretty well up until now, when our country began introducing changes based on "western models". Now the knowledge of average student is declining, belive me, I know coz I spent some time teaching in schools and learning with younger generations, which i must say was a schock to me...Ok, some fo the fault is the society and the modern way of life that we get today...Nevertheless, Paying leads to elitism, and the gap between the poorer and the rich broadens.Some red ;D at the brink of fall of communism in Poland said that one mistake they made was to give free and comprehensive education to the masses. Now we see as the new political "cast" is rectifying that err...We all happy 'coz we got us MTV, right?As long as people are content they wont seek changes. As long as they dont know there is more beyond their backyard reality they wont strive for something greater. And the easier it will be to controll them/us.Only my few groshes :teeth:

 

[Gamewidow]

I agree with you that it should be free to all who wish to work at it --- i do think there should be ways to cut down on the people who are not working and just taking up space, though eace:Here in Canada, school is free up to (but NOT including) university ... that said, it is NOWHERE near as expensive as schools in the US eace:

 

[TheSilver]

Tempting gamewidow, tempting :teethersonally I do not have a clear opinion. I see that eduction should be available for everybody, but also that teacher need to be payed. I think Quixote made a nice little summary.Personally my big problem is more in the form of loans. I see that if the tuition cost would be lower, that might affect the loans too, but not necessarily.The college I am going to attend has is about 24K per year ( :dead: ) but I think that it will be worth it. Let me give an example from Germany: University is free (might have changed nowadays though....) but to be eligible to attend you have to either been in a school branch called gymnasium or prove that you have the same level of knowledge in a awfully complicated test. Students that have attended Realschule (like me) or Hochschule will have to take the test to be able to attend a university.

 

[TC_Coyote]

Found the article on 2-year degrees: http://encarta.degreesandtraining.com/articles.jsp?article=featured_6_associate_degree_jobs_that_earn_over_50k&GT1=27001

And I think that paying for education is discrimination. All education should be free for those who want to learn. Period.

Actually, the cost of college in the US at present is a direct cause of attempting to legislate a decrease in discrimination. Note to moderators: If this post is deemed to be too political in nature, feel free to edit it to remove everything after the link I posted above.See, a few decades back, it was acceptable in the US for employers to have prospective employees take basic competency tests (some called them 'intelligence tests', but generally they were closer to what's now termed 'critical thinking' tests than to true IQ tests).Then it was decided that these standardized tests were prejudicial to non-whites who may have grown up with different backgrounds than white applicants, and so these tests were banned as a form of "discrimination".The employers, still needing some way to test prospective employees to make sure they had basic skills (math, reading comprehension, etc.), then made the Bachelors Degree the new defacto standard, requiring it for positions that previously anyone with a high school education (which is free in the US) could get provided they passed the test.Result: Sudden increase in demand at colleges/universities, since everyone was told they "had" to have a college degree, whether or not they actually needed it. And trust me, there's some folks who shouldn't be in college -- they know it, the teachers know it, and their classmates certainly know it, but they're there because they've been told they "have to" rather than out of any desire to learn or need for the coursework.Colleges have limited space available and following simple economics, cost rises to meet demand since supply isn't infinite.End result (leaving out such idiocy as "racial quotas" which the courts've been striking down the past decade or so): Those people who previously may've passed the tests but can't afford college, a group which minorities often fall into, lose out even worse than under the old system.As the old saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[PotatoProphet]

I'm from Sweden and here it's free. I think it should be, okey, we do pay really high taxes but I think it's worth it most of the time (there's always flaws in any system). A free education, for me, is a sign of an evolved country. Everyone should have the same rights and be treated the same way. It shouldn't be an upper class privilege :-\.