From Lockdown Meta to Uninteractive Meta

[OuterSpaceDoggo]

So today I decided to playing on ranked. I missed a couple of Seasons so I'm starting at rank 9.
Never I've been more frustrated and nervous at the current meta since the release of the decklists of the current qualifiers. You basically encounter two type of decks:

- Lockdown/Clogger, sometimes the Madoc variant. Be prepared to watch at least 3 Viper Mentors slamming for an average of 10 points each
- Uninteractive Madoc Decks, most popular variant ( from my experience ) is the ST one, Healthy Package: Madoc, Curse of Corruption, Wave, Saber Tooh, Saesenthessis.

And this is at rank 9; I can only imagine how unnerving must it be at higher ranks.
So what if you decide to play on casual? Tough luck friend, now you get Lockdown, Lippy and the same Madoc shit.
I had to close the game because I was starting to add those player to my friend list only to congratulate them on contributing to sink this meta into this turd.
Honestly, I'm done. Everytime I decide to get back on the game I only find the game state getting worse and worse.
Accuse me of rant, whining, at this point I don't care anymore. If you can have fun on this meta, well good for you! God forbid you try an homebrew deck because the amount of control is so insane that they actually managed to make this game even more draw dependant.
Giving all that, I expect the current Masters to be a boring fest, so much about "game about skill".

 

[InkognitoXI]

Agreed that the current Lockdown + No-unit gamestate manages to be considerably more toxic than the previous Viy + Lippy + Lockdown situation (which is almost impressive), however at this point it is very unlikely that they mess up dealing with this afterwards, especially since making the situation even worse is difficult.

Having played the game since Closed Beta I can safely say that the average meta is a lot better than the current one, so it is very safe to assume that after this format the game will get a lot better again.
Just sit this one out.

 

[ReaperTek]

Well it was kind of obvious that the Lockdown clog heavy Meta will drive Player's to decks that don't give them valuable clog targets so the rise of no unit decks isn't really that surprising, but yeah the current Meta is probably one of the most annoying ones I've ever experienced and almost unbearable to endure.

Let's just hope that this is a wake up call for the Devs and that the upcoming balance Patch isn't another half hearted one and that they further adress the isues in their State of Gwent (we don't want to call it a Roadmap) Stream because another month with a Meta like this would be really bad for the Game.

 

[EduFerraz]

The game should change drastically.

Its The second seasonal i didnt even tryed to play on rank, because its The same shit meta lockdown no unit.

If in unranked matches we get that.

Well, Just sit and wait ppl coming in your topic saying.... "... Bla bla bla, lockdown fights The meta... Bla bla bla... The vyi problem... Bla bla bla"

 

[Lokiat0r]

another month with a Meta like this would be really bad for the Game.

It's already bad for the game... Given how long it takes to find a match these days, I'd guess that a lot of players have already abandoned the game until the next patch (if not entirely). I only log in long enough to grab enough CP to keep me on target to finish Yen's Journey by week 13, otherwise I'd probably have sat this season out too.

 

[Morph3uXD]

This is very complicated, with so many archetypes out of the meta, the devs chose to buff cards which support no units, along with the buff of the mentor viper, which made cloggers stronger than ever, made this season even more boring to play from than last season that had Viy super broken.

I am very disappointed with the current meta after 2 months of viy, I expected a more fun goal to play.

 

[Gwentsan]

So today I decided to playing on ranked. I missed a couple of Seasons so I'm starting at rank 9.
Never I've been more frustrated and nervous at the current meta since the release of the decklists of the current qualifiers. You basically encounter two type of decks:

- Lockdown/Clogger, sometimes the Madoc variant. Be prepared to watch at least 3 Viper Mentors slamming for an average of 10 points each
- Uninteractive Madoc Decks, most popular variant ( from my experience ) is the ST one, Healthy Package: Madoc, Curse of Corruption, Wave, Saber Tooh, Saesenthessis.

And this is at rank 9; I can only imagine how unnerving must it be at higher ranks.
So what if you decide to play on casual? Tough luck friend, now you get Lockdown, Lippy and the same Madoc shit.
I had to close the game because I was starting to add those player to my friend list only to congratulate them on contributing to sink this meta into this turd.
Honestly, I'm done. Everytime I decide to get back on the game I only find the game state getting worse and worse.
Accuse me of rant, whining, at this point I don't care anymore. If you can have fun on this meta, well good for you! God forbid you try an homebrew deck because the amount of control is so insane that they actually managed to make this game even more draw dependant.
Giving all that, I expect the current Masters to be a boring fest, so much about "game about skill".

The reason is...

VIY. KOLGRIM. CHARGE Decks... bascially everything about the new patch...
To counter that.. most people play LOCK or Lockdown.

And to counter that, people play Sabertooth/Saesenthessis kind of decks.

So yes. ATM the problem is there is WAY too many TALL CARDS... but NOT ENOUGH TALL CARD REMOVEALS.

Hope that helps. Lol

 

[radesign]

That`s why there should be a standard CCG games mechanic - blacklisting.

At least in casual mode for each player.

Option like : ban leader/faction from matchmaking for a week.
No same faction for two consecutive weeks, ban does not include chosen faction.

Let SK beat each other, or Lockdowns lock each other.

 

[Draconifors]

That`s why there should be a standard CCG games mechanic - blacklisting.

No, there shouldn't. It's been discussed several times in the past, in at least these two threads:

Adding an option to accept or reject the opponent match up
allow player to ban leader abilities for non-ranked matches

 

[Vo1fger]

That`s why there should be a standard CCG games mechanic - blacklisting.

I don't recall any CCG with blacklisting as standard mechanic. I want to see at least one example (then I will check its forum if my assumptions about consequences of using blacklisting system were correct).

No, there shouldn't. It's been discussed several times in the past

And it will be brought up "Again. And again. And again..." @ Temerian drummer.
But the most painful aspect about this is that such suggesters will never listen to sensible arguments until they get what they asked... to then hypocritically proclaim "That was not what I was suggesting!"
I truly admire your composure - I wouldn't be able to behave properly after (probably) years of seeing the same suggestions, the same arguments and the same "I know better!" attitude.

 

[Messyr]

I don't recall any CCG with blacklisting as standard mechanic. I want to see at least one example (then I will check its forum if my assumptions about consequences of using blacklisting system were correct).




And it will be brought up "Again. And again. And again..." @ Temerian drummer.
But the most painful aspect about this is that such suggesters will never listen to sensible arguments until they get what they asked... to then hypocritically proclaim "That was not what I was suggesting!"
I truly admire your composure - I wouldn't be able to behave properly after (probably) years of seeing the same suggestions, the same arguments and the same "I know better!" attitude.

Pretty much this. People (definitely not just players) tend to focus only on one thing, the one that is right in front of them (in this case: "I don't want to play against the faction that beats me, so I want to blacklist it").

This is a most complex issue actually. Being able to think 3 steps forward and imagine the negative side effects one action such as this would cause on the long run - both to queue times and actual player experience - is definitely difficult, and requires a deep understanding of the matchmaking logic, player mentality and even game mechanics, such as factors shaping a meta.

The issue comes when one's expectations of himself and his awareness exceed reality and wouldn't want to read/understand/comprehend these side effects even when they get explained over and over.

 

[Barracuda88]

Well, with explanations like these, it's no wonder people keep bringing it up. And yes, blacklisting should exist, in casual at the very least. And no, the world won't end if everybody decides to ban ONE toxic leader ability out of 42 or whatever. It'll just be another factor shaping the meta.

 

[Vo1fger]

Well, with explanations like these, it's no wonder people keep bringing it up. And yes, blacklisting should exist, in casual at the very least. And no, the world won't end if everybody decides to ban ONE toxic leader ability out of 42 or whatever. It'll just be another factor shaping the meta.

I prefer to not repeat what was said before me or by me. So eager to express your opinion about blacklisting? Do so in proper thread. You will find most of arguments from both sides there.


P. S. If I may ask - could moderators move some of the posts here to other thread (preferably one of aforementioned ones)? The discussion is already going away from its original topic, no need for it to turn into another "Give me the cancel button" thread.

 

[EduFerraz]

No, there shouldn't. It's been discussed several times in the past, in at least these two threads:

Adding an option to accept or reject the opponent match up
allow player to ban leader abilities for non-ranked matches

For me it should. Its not because you are moderator your opinion has more value than The others

 

[radesign]

I don't recall any CCG with blacklisting as standard mechanic. I want to see at least one example (then I will check its forum if my assumptions about consequences of using blacklisting system were correct).

Well, I`ve been playing a lot, and there is a mechanic exactly like this in every game I`ve been playing.

For example, if you want to attend a tournament in Magic:the Gathering, there are tons of cards you cannot use in a specific standard, or even entire card sets.
That`s blacklisting in your face.

Blacklisting specific cards was a thing even in ancient times, when I used to play Netrunner or Doomtrooper.

 

[Vo1fger]

Well, I`ve been playing a lot, and there is a mechanic exactly like this in every game I`ve been playing.

For example, if you want to attend a tournament in Magic:the Gathering, there are tons of cards you cannot use in a specific standard, or even entire card sets.
That`s blacklisting in your face.

I suppose I should've asked differently... Alas...
Rephrasing my initial question - can you name me any CCG that has blacklisting outside of tournament scene? Because tournaments are not the same playing field as any other mode.

 

[Messyr]

No they cannot.

No, there are no competitve CCGs that ever allowed blacklisting outside Tournaments or vs AI. Is there really anyone still out there who needs explanation on how a Tournament mode differs from an average standard/ranked mode? On how an open-deck format can work differently compared to a matchmaking based ladder format?

This argument has no constructive outcome. Repeating/demanding the very same things without end while completely ignoring any reasoning why those ideas cannot be implemented is pointless. The moderator was kind enough to collect all the arguments that were said already. Anything further than this is like bashing your head against a concrete wall.

Why not skip this for now so we can get back on topic? Bashing the meta for example.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Moderator: Indeed. Back on topic, please.

 

[Guest 4416545]

I read this topic like 4 Days ago and i thought "WTF he is talking about, they had almost dissapear", and karma as his best match me with them so so so Many times that im gonna cry a bit here.

And is not only sabertooth/schirru, i see so Many variants, even one with arachas leader that unless you know the deck you Will get tilted very easy when you find what they doing.

Like lately i even miss viy, atless against them u Will only need Spore to win and they let you do your things, meanwhile against this lock/uninteractive decks you need 200 answer in hand to beat them and a lot of patient because its gonna be a long boring match.

 

[Vo1fger]

Why not skip this for now so we can get back on topic? Bashing the meta for example.

I was suggesting to move off-topic posts where they belong - thought it would be for the best of everyone's sanity.

As for bashing meta - I never made any statements about meta since I'm playing what I want or plan (right now I'm going for 200 wins with every Thronebreaker leader, concentrating on Eldain and Arnjolf since I'm close to 1000 wins with their respective factions).

In short - I prefer to adapt to situation rather than pointlessly discuss it because the "meta" will inevitably change.