Game is super frustrating.

[LittleTeze]

Game is super frustrating.

Why can't we have a sense of deck progression for new cards?

The very tiny small amount of card packs I do get, mostly equal to nothing to the deck I wanna play and nothing compared to the large amount of super rares cards, players randomly spit out at you at a stupidly quick margin. I'm gimped from the very start and I honestly feel frustrated that I have nothing to catch up with unless of course I just pay to win or pray out my goddamn ass that I get insanely lucky for a misplay.

If the game wants to be heartstone 2.0 that's fine but even they didn't gimp players this much to pay.

 

[Master_Kenobi]

Well if you want to be competitive in beta i suggest u mill at least two factions u don't consider playing at this moment. That will give you enough scrap to craft something useful. Other than that i cant tell suggest anything else. i was lucky enough with the kegs, i got ciri and two times shani which was enough to construct something viable. i crafted only one card (geralt: igni) and now i'm pondering whether or not i should mill whole skellige deck to craft something else.

 

[Rawls]

Yeah I would also reccomend focusing on one or two decks and scrapping the others. I scrapped all of my decks but Scoia'tael and it really helps.

 

[Rethas]

Why can't we have a sense of deck progression for new cards?

The very tiny small amount of card packs I do get, mostly equal to nothing to the deck I wanna play and nothing compared to the large amount of super rares cards, players randomly spit out at you at a stupidly quick margin. I'm gimped from the very start and I honestly feel frustrated that I have nothing to catch up with unless of course I just pay to win or pray out my goddamn ass that I get insanely lucky for a misplay.

If the game wants to be heartstone 2.0 that's fine but even they didn't gimp players this much to pay.

Over time and as more players are added to the beta the matchmaking should improve to alleviate some of this issue.

We're also looking into some ideas regarding progression.

 

[Turtleboats]

If the game wants to be heartstone 2.0 that's fine but even they didn't gimp players this much to pay.

Do you expect a CCG to just hand you a full set of cards in the first weeks of your gameplay time without even paying a cent? Gwent is a free to play game - no one is forcing anyone to pay for anything if that is the route you want to take, which is completely fine. As shocking as it may seem don't go in expecting to be at an equal playing field to those who bought cards in a card game; the same can be said for Hearthstone or any other CCG.

In hearthstone if one wants to enjoy their time and be a consistent player they have to put in an insane amount of money that I am shocked you fail to realize that.

You need to constantly have the latest three expansions and a healthy collection of their classic set to remain viable. A free to play player in that ecosystem I would argue has a harder time achieving even the basic means to play at their level required simply because the rate at one achieves card packs is at a snail pace. You are lucky to get one pack a day in Hearthstone, whereas the same cannot be said in Gwent (as it currently stands.)

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I do not recommend milling whole factions as I think it will lead to faster burnout. Playing different factions keeps them game fresh.

 

[LittleTeze]

Do you expect a CCG to just hand you a full set of cards in the first weeks of your gameplay time without even paying a cent?

Gosh that does sound fun. Can't wait to play that game.

Thanks for the milling info Master_Kenobi and Rawls, i had no idea you could just mill the starter decks. It helps a lot just to keep the pace up.

 

[xsomeNOOBx]

Hi Everyone,

I want to echo the sentiments of the first poster.

The progression in this game feels very slow. Often games of this type (long term investment of time / money, repeated play, progression through play) start you off with what is relatively a flurry of advancement. Over time this slows down to a more reasonable pace for extended players.

I feel that for this game however there are 3 things that frustrate your ability to advance.
1 - It takes many games to acquire a pack, and there is only one vector: playing (mostly winning) games. No dailies, no quests. Just grinding it out.
2 - The difference between winning and losing is very big. From 15 ore and level advancement, to potentially just 5 ore or less. Once you start you feel at a huge disadvantage to players with even a couple relevant cards in their decks, and it makes a loss feel even worse.
3 - Once you do win enough to gather a pack it may have 1 card for your deck which is likely mediocre at best. The rare may or may not have a place.

When you consider this and think that it's likely to just slow down the more you play, it feels like an insurmountable task.

I am not expecting the game to give you everything, but I think it should start you off at a good pace to draw you in, and then taper off over time if you've decided you want to keep playing. Then you might have a good enough enjoyment of it to want to spend cash on more Kegs to keep things going.

As it stands now, I feel like without dropping more money on the game I have no chance to even access the deck building in a meaningful fashion. And I don't want to feel coerced in spending money on the game just to access the ability to play it as intended. I want to do it because the game is awesome! Which I feel deep down GWENT is.

 

[Turtleboats]

Gosh that does sound fun. Can't wait to play that game.

You already mentioned you had some experience with Hearthstone and their systems, so what makes Gwent so much different? Instead of low effort posts like:

but even they (Blizzard) didn't gimp players this much to pay.

explain what Hearthstone does much better than Gwent in its business/progression model. Stating that you don't like the genre essentially (as many CCG's operate under the pay to play model) doesn't do much in terms of the dev's recieving feedback or promoting a healthy discussion.

 

[Lytha]

I felt just like the OP a few days in. My half-baked "boost the little guy" Hawk Support deck had been discovered by the meta as something that needs to be countered, and people learned how easy that is done. So I had a horrible time for a bit and frustration was high.

Then I just said "screw it" and

(a) threw together cheap and awful decks for all 4 factions (didn't mill anything, didn't buy any kegs) and tried them
(b) decided that I also like Skellige and played that for a short time
(c) started to develop more Scoia decks, because that simply IS the faction I prefer
(d) had a massive losing spree in the course of setting up a really lovely Scoia Trap deck. If there is a matchmaking ranking going on, I probably hit the very bottom during that time. Despite the 100% lose rate during this interval, I enjoyed myself again.
(e) tweaked that Trap stuff enough until it started to work (50%ish win rate on a good day, but I thoroughly enjoy myself ), doing short episodes of some more Skellige in between if frustration happened again.

I can highly recommend this approach for anyone who feels that they're not having a good time.

 

[bre3zer]

I feel that for this game however there are 3 things that frustrate your ability to advance. 1 - It takes many games to acquire a pack, and there is only one vector: playing (mostly winning) games. No dailies, no quests. Just grinding it out. 2 - The difference between winning and losing is very big. From 15 ore and level advancement, to potentially just 5 ore or less. Once you start you feel at a huge disadvantage to players with even a couple relevant cards in their decks, and it makes a loss feel even worse. 3 - Once you do win enough to gather a pack it may have 1 card for your deck which is likely mediocre at best. The rare may or may not have a place.

I see that you are a new player. The system doesn't exactly work the way you are describing. Check out my signature.

I am not expecting the game to give you everything, but I think it should start you off at a good pace to draw you in, and then taper off over time if you've decided you want to keep playing. Then you might have a good enough enjoyment of it to want to spend cash on more Kegs to keep things going.

I agree that the game as of right now, is VERY hostile to new players. And should probably shift somehow.

Also, being a new player and not being able to win should be really distinguished.

As you might just play poorly and being match agaisn't people who have more experience(and probably cards). in a reasonable fashion.

Totaly unfairness aka a lvl 9 being match agaisnt a level 40. (< Fix this, get rid of the above problem(s).)

 

[Master_Kenobi]

I intend to spend 60€ when this game starts because it feels like i should support the developers, especially ppl from cdprojekt red. they haven't failed me yet. i think it makes total sense.
Which brings me to the next point... that being the "pay to win" notion some players have. it is true these games are pay to win in the beginning. there is no denying that. when i started playing hearthstone (HS) i paid 20€ for the Naxx expansions. the cards in naxx were very op and it gave me a chance to be competitive. the other thing i did was i visited dedicated deck building websites to check out the latest decks and see what class i should focus on in order to get better win rate. it was because of several reasons: a) you can enjoy the game b) you can be competitive c) you can get up the ladder to get better end of the month reward. coughing up money in the beginning is not mandatory and if you are lucky with the keg rng lottery you will be mostly unscratched. that goes for day-one players. for the new players (like myself in HS) it was a must and that's how the cookie crumbles. love it, hate it or be indifferent it doesn't matter. u cant argue with the facts.

As far as this games goes the only thing that matter here is the win rate. i dont know if we would have some kind of a "end of the month" reward depending on the rank you managed to get till the end of the month. my opinion: it is very unlikely at this point since there is a ranking system already which at the moment has no role whatsoever. keep in mind its very early beta so things might go in various directions but from my past beta experiences not a lot will change. the core design will not change, it will mostly be technical and comestic stuff (i wish i am wrong but that remains to be seen).
we haven't seen the single player mode. it could be a huge help considering the amount of cards u might be getting.

here is one simple example; in single player mode u get to choose one of 5 factions and then u will stick with it for an unknown period of time. during that time u will have a chance to unlock certain cards (couple of silver and possibly a gold one). this will enable you to have one primary deck and the rest will be sitting there for god knows how long until you are either lucky with kegs or u get to start new single player session but with different factions. this should be limited to say a month or so (or even more) because if you finish the single player mode too fast you will be able to unlock all the factions and that simply wont do because it makes no sense. this however will stop players from milling their decks (or at least stop them from milling the leader cards unless you have no love for the other factions). in beta we don't have that possibility so basically what i did i milled monsters (which i regret a bit since i really like the weather deck) and i milled the elves because i have no intention playing them. i'm left with the islanders but i don't play them so i will be milling them as well. this leaves me with foltest which i really enjoy and i will be sticking with him. maybe if another reset happens i will switch to monster but who know how the cards will be nerfed and will the current monster deck be viable at all.

in my eyes beta is for testing and for sticking with only one faction and grinding through it like a madman. you can form 2, maybe 3 different decks from a single faction and is amazing because it adds a variety of possible decks and it is good for breaking monotony.

 

[Flintberg]

You already mentioned you had some experience with Hearthstone and their systems, so what makes Gwent so much different? Instead of low effort posts like:


explain what Hearthstone does much better than Gwent in its business/progression model. Stating that you don't like the genre essentially (as many CCG's operate under the pay to play model) doesn't do much in terms of the dev's recieving feedback or promoting a healthy discussion.

Once you begin in hearthstone, you get a decent amount of cards for each class, and a singleplayer mode allowing you to learn each cards and unlock extra cards, including neutrals, for doing it.

So, in HS, as a new player, you can start by learning the ropes, acquiring cards and picking the classes you like. Bringing each class to lvl 10, and thus unlocking all basic cards, means you are already invested (emotionally) in the game, and you have a senbse of where do you want to go next.

In Gwent, you get a few tutorial games, a handful of cards, and that's it, you're on your own. The onboarding process just plain sucks compared to HS.

 

[ManuW3]

I see that the problem basically is that people with decks that are too weak can't overcome people with stronger decks and thus can't progress. So how about improving the matchmaking so all these people with abysmal lose to win ratios end up with other people who also lose a ton and maybe they all have better chances to win among themselves and get new cards to improve their decks?

 

[Mak0r]

Looks like you are not aware you can dismantle and produce cards.

 

[Turtleboats]

Once you begin in hearthstone, you get a decent amount of cards for each class, and a singleplayer mode allowing you to learn each cards and unlock extra cards, including neutrals, for doing it.

The basic set awarded for leveling up in HS does indeed provide the player an incentive to stay in the system, that much is true. These are of course things I hope Gwent addresses in the future. That said that's not what I am discussing about with the OP.

 

[Nekojin]

Looks like you are not aware you can dismantle and produce cards.

This isn't really a solution. Dismantling cards is lossy - it has to be (and every CCG does it this way), so that people don't just dismantle their old deck and rebuild a Deck of the Week any time a new meta evolves. So for a new player, dismantling a large percentage of their cards means decimating your card count/value (and, by necessity, dismantling cards that are good and useful - just not something for your improved "first" deck). Since you've gotten rid of half or more of your cards, you're going to have to spend a good deal of time to just get back to the card count/value that you were given when you started. If the meta changes before you've got enough cards for another viable deck, and your improved deck is no longer a viable deck, you're screwed. Even more screwed than you were as a new player, because you no longer have any flexibility in your collection.

 

[Flintberg]

The basic set awarded for leveling up in HS does indeed provide the player an incentive to stay in the system, that much is true. These are of course things I hope Gwent addresses in the future. That said that's not what I am discussing about with the OP.

The basic set awarded for leveling up in HS does indeed provide the player an incentive to stay in the system, that much is true. These are of course things I hope Gwent addresses in the future. That said that's not what I am discussing about with the OP.

I noticed. However, my main concern here is that the game's onboarding is broken, and the beta is exactly the moment people should bring this up.

I really want to like Gwent, don't get me wrong. But the game's not letting me. I was hooked on HS long before I gave Blizz any of my money. With Gwent, I feel I need to pay before I actually get my chance to like the game. This is wrong on so many levels.

 

[Turtleboats]

I noticed. However, my main concern here is that the game's onboarding is broken, and the beta is exactly the moment people should bring this up.

I really want to like Gwent, don't get me wrong. But the game's not letting me. I was hooked on HS long before I gave Blizz any of my money. With Gwent, I feel I need to pay before I actually get my chance to like the game. This is wrong on so many levels.

True words man, I understand what you mean completely and it is indeed good that we are having these discussions.

 

[vodge]

I noticed. However, my main concern here is that the game's onboarding is broken, and the beta is exactly the moment people should bring this up.

I really want to like Gwent, don't get me wrong. But the game's not letting me. I was hooked on HS long before I gave Blizz any of my money. With Gwent, I feel I need to pay before I actually get my chance to like the game. This is wrong on so many levels.

Maybe you just need to try a different deck or strategy? I'm level 24 and haven't bought a single keg yet. I never milled all my spare decks either, I've kept them spare in case I want to try a different deck. My girlfriend was getting really frustrated when she was first playing because she kept losing, I looked at her cards and built a deck with her and went through a few games explaining different strategies and how to think ahead of your opponents moves and all of a sudden she's winning more and having fun. You might just need to try something else.