I'm not sure what she expects from the land devastated by war and filled with marauders. Didn't she herself said that Witcher games prefer realism? Is she complaining about the fact that such settings are portrayed to begin with, or about the fact that they are not properly portrayed?
@Costin : I think she means the scene with marauders attacking the herbalist's house.
@Costin : I think she means the scene with marauders attacking the herbalist's house.
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She thinks the Killing Monsters trailer was a gang rape. Again, way off. Here's another read that illustrates this is bigger than the gaming world:
http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/2014/09/07/gamergate-journalism-as-a-social-justice-war-game/
And I can't resist. Mods, take it down if you must but goddamn I laughed:
http://www.gog.com/upload/forum/2014/09/ddb5c9494340d4f64ea15267456b90da7ea9e58d.gif
That's not trailer footage, that's gameplay demo. Also seriously what?
You're telling me what a group of bandits finding a lone herbalist living in the woods along with a customer of hers that they decide to murder and rob would limit themselves to just that? In what world exactly?
Now sure it can be argued CDPR handled rape badly in their Witcher 2. Loredo was fine, it had real legitimate story reasons behind it and was handle decently.
Ves however was handled like absolute shit.
You're telling me what a group of bandits finding a lone herbalist living in the woods along with a customer of hers that they decide to murder and rob would limit themselves to just that? In what world exactly?
Now sure it can be argued CDPR handled rape badly in their Witcher 2. Loredo was fine, it had real legitimate story reasons behind it and was handle decently.
Ves however was handled like absolute shit.
"Sigh" Fools enough to go around I guess. That said she has a certain point: The killing monsters trailer was a damsel in distress piece of crap.
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What's wrong with damsel in distress? She says the problem is that it's about rape (which as well can be implied). But again, how is that not fitting into the war settings? Or she means such themes can't be used at all?
It was?
I remember the rather heated and extensive discussion we had about it. I remain convinced there's a strong case to be made about her not being a damsel in distress at all.
On topic though, if a grown-up individual fails to understand the profusion of rape scenes in a work of fiction does not equate to condoning it, if she can't seem to get this straightforward distinction, then her discourse merits no credit whatsoever. To me the fact she sees rape in either or both the Killing Monsters trailer and the Herbalist's shack scene further demonstrates how clueless she is on this matter.
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I'm trying to understand her point about rape. That... what? That there's too much of it? That it's being glorified? That it's being... I don't know. What's her point, about there being rape in a filthy medieval'ish world filled with cuthroats, treacherous kings, murderers, gamblers, assassins and a a bunch of other corrupt individuals?
I would say, the normalization, how she calls it, is actually a strength of the game. It makes you think about how bad humanity can be, if rape becomes a normal thing in war times. This does not mean, it is a good thing or can be condoned! Normal doesn't mean good. Normal can be bad as well. It makes her sick and it should do. That is a justified reaction. So it did exactly what it was supposed to. Show you the horrors of war. Where does her problem come in then? Where do you go from "She has been raped that is horrible." to "Oh, so this games things raping women is cool."? Or better even the step that some SJW like to take: "Oh so the developers and gamersall think raping women is cool"
By the way, I would like to have a game touch on topics like male rape, pedophelia, domestic violence and such. Not demanding it needs to be in the Witcher but I think there are stories that can be told there, which even in other forms of media (and some in the public) are ignored mostly.
By the way, I would like to have a game touch on topics like male rape, pedophelia, domestic violence and such. Not demanding it needs to be in the Witcher but I think there are stories that can be told there, which even in other forms of media (and some in the public) are ignored mostly.
the problem here, and with people in general, is they haven't learned how to dismiss bad arguments from stupid people. don't burden yourselves with trying to understand her point. she doesn't have one. move on. she just wants attention.
No wiser words have been written since the beginning of Gamergate.
I'd like to make an educated point about sexual assault in media for a moment. Feel free to delete my post mods if I veer too far off the point of this discussion. But it is a direct reply to the video posted.
The normalization of rape and sexual assault in media, all media, from TV, music, books and video games targeted at a mature audience I view as a very good thing. I'd go as far as to call it necessary given the heinousness of the act itself.
I was molested as a child starting at the age of 8 and it went on for a year. Sexual assault was always a thing to hide and feel ashamed about for survivors. Always something to keep to yourself and try to forget. No one widely spoke about it, no one put it in peoples face as a harsh reality of the world we live in and certainly no one ever encouraged survivors of sexual assault to speak out against the deep and life long trauma it leaves inside of you. That it leaves a metaphorical scar on survivors that lasts a lifetime. People believe en masse that if you speak up no one will believe you and I believe that is a direct result of treating sexual assault like it's something that needs to be hidden away.
I for one do not long to return to a world where sexual assaults are at most only eluded too on rare occasions when a police detective on TV is tracking a bad guy. The Witcher series uses rape in its game to show humans can be every bit the monsters as the fictional creatures Geralt hunts for a living. It does not champion the notion of rape as a positive thing, it doesn't celebrate those that commit these acts and it doesn't suggest that anyone in real life perpetrate a sexual assault.
Sweeping sexual assault under the rug and going on about your life is why I ended up trying to commit suicide and its why so many people that go through that trauma do the same. So 'no' to the people that want to remove it from games, TV, movies and so on.
Rape and other forms of sexual assault being normalized makes it OK for survivors to know they aren't alone in their pain and that society shouldn't look away from what happened to you to settle their own piece of mind. That what happened matters and I remember being a child knowing nothing of a support structure to help me deal with my experience. Hell I was 15 before I even knew there was such a thing as a sexual assault crisis center. Maybe if there was more media attention on this crime growing up I would have spoken up sooner and got the help I needed.
The normalization of rape and sexual assault in media, all media, from TV, music, books and video games targeted at a mature audience I view as a very good thing. I'd go as far as to call it necessary given the heinousness of the act itself.
I was molested as a child starting at the age of 8 and it went on for a year. Sexual assault was always a thing to hide and feel ashamed about for survivors. Always something to keep to yourself and try to forget. No one widely spoke about it, no one put it in peoples face as a harsh reality of the world we live in and certainly no one ever encouraged survivors of sexual assault to speak out against the deep and life long trauma it leaves inside of you. That it leaves a metaphorical scar on survivors that lasts a lifetime. People believe en masse that if you speak up no one will believe you and I believe that is a direct result of treating sexual assault like it's something that needs to be hidden away.
I for one do not long to return to a world where sexual assaults are at most only eluded too on rare occasions when a police detective on TV is tracking a bad guy. The Witcher series uses rape in its game to show humans can be every bit the monsters as the fictional creatures Geralt hunts for a living. It does not champion the notion of rape as a positive thing, it doesn't celebrate those that commit these acts and it doesn't suggest that anyone in real life perpetrate a sexual assault.
Sweeping sexual assault under the rug and going on about your life is why I ended up trying to commit suicide and its why so many people that go through that trauma do the same. So 'no' to the people that want to remove it from games, TV, movies and so on.
Rape and other forms of sexual assault being normalized makes it OK for survivors to know they aren't alone in their pain and that society shouldn't look away from what happened to you to settle their own piece of mind. That what happened matters and I remember being a child knowing nothing of a support structure to help me deal with my experience. Hell I was 15 before I even knew there was such a thing as a sexual assault crisis center. Maybe if there was more media attention on this crime growing up I would have spoken up sooner and got the help I needed.
Brave post Chance. TF getting suspended by Twitter symbolizes how Anita and her cronies want to operate - stand on your pulpit and preach, then silence dissenters. Sorry honey, not going to work on the internets.
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Thanks for the openness, Chance. That's a perspective I never considered up until your post, btw.
Edit: Also, censoring is pretty "don't go there" stuff. Unless the person you're censoring is inciting violence in an explicit manner, you don't shut people up, no matter how unpleasant - whether in content or form.
I don't follow Twitter and I don't know what are the things Thunderf00t wrote that were flagged. But I doubt it was something along the lines of "we need to go and kill someone".
What's Twitter's policy about this? Just... take down things that are flagged, without checking the content? There has to be more to it. Or I hope there is. Otherwise that's just miserable.
Edit: Also, censoring is pretty "don't go there" stuff. Unless the person you're censoring is inciting violence in an explicit manner, you don't shut people up, no matter how unpleasant - whether in content or form.
I don't follow Twitter and I don't know what are the things Thunderf00t wrote that were flagged. But I doubt it was something along the lines of "we need to go and kill someone".
What's Twitter's policy about this? Just... take down things that are flagged, without checking the content? There has to be more to it. Or I hope there is. Otherwise that's just miserable.
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If enough people complain, they can get a Twitter user removed. It's a standard harassment technique.
In case you think the feminist and anti-violence critiques of video games aren't related: Marin County, CA (where a lot of video games are made, incidentally) is offering an ice cream for toy guns or video games exchange, in order to "raise awareness among children about domestic violence." In other words, to train young boys not to grow up and kill women because they play video games. Yep. Little window into the mindset of people like Sarkeesian.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/09/18/california-county-offers-tempting-violent-video-games-for-ice-cream-exchange/?utm_campaign=techtwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
In case you think the feminist and anti-violence critiques of video games aren't related: Marin County, CA (where a lot of video games are made, incidentally) is offering an ice cream for toy guns or video games exchange, in order to "raise awareness among children about domestic violence." In other words, to train young boys not to grow up and kill women because they play video games. Yep. Little window into the mindset of people like Sarkeesian.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/09/18/california-county-offers-tempting-violent-video-games-for-ice-cream-exchange/?utm_campaign=techtwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
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Middle aged lady under Polygon's magnifying glass: https://archive.today/eNQ8s
Re. Liana K on The Witcher:
Oh good lord. Well, she did say she was a feminist. I can't believe she made such slams against Poland. Bleccchhh.
Since you can't read comments on archive.today, I'll copy paste this one. It was worth giving Polygon a click.
" I don’t think he nailed this in any way whatsoever. In fact, I think he completely missed her point, and hasn’t provided a single shred of evidence to support his assertions, unlike Sommers.
Well let’s just go through her video point by point. Oh, wait. I don’t have to. Someone else already fact-checked Sommers objectively and posted it on medium.
https://medium.com/@cainejw/the-factual-feminist-a-factcheck-f5ae584f56da
Showing once and for all that, in fact, a first-wave feminist who has a PhD in Philosophy, who reads dozens and dozens of papers about behavioral studies and analyzing statistics, actually knows what she’s talking about.
Finally, we have some really, really screwy logic coming from certain writers around here. On one hand, sexism in gaming is super dangerous and definitely bleeds over into real life, and anyone who thinks this might not be true (because there studies that show this) is automatically labeled reactionary, conservative, etc.
But then again, on the other hand, when it was about violence in video games, anyone who thought that it might bleed over into real life was labeled as….well…I don’t need to type it. Colin said it best himself:
So we have a demonization of someone who would dare suggest something negative towards violence in gaming, but a complete 180 when it’s about sexism in gaming, neither of which, might I add, have a single shred of evidence to support the assertion that anything inside of a game has the power to influence the long-term behavior of someone in real life, as detailed by the medium article above.
But, hey, at least Colin isn’t a 'reactionary, in the sense that he is hostile to the scrutiny of, and implicit changes to games suggested by progressives'. Right?"
Oh good lord. Well, she did say she was a feminist. I can't believe she made such slams against Poland. Bleccchhh.
Polygon is owned by Vox, so they come by it honestly. Come to think of it, their launch had the same "aren't we special" vibe that Vox had as well. No wonder they think they're so much better than the rest of us.
Since you can't read comments on archive.today, I'll copy paste this one. It was worth giving Polygon a click.
" I don’t think he nailed this in any way whatsoever. In fact, I think he completely missed her point, and hasn’t provided a single shred of evidence to support his assertions, unlike Sommers.
Well let’s just go through her video point by point. Oh, wait. I don’t have to. Someone else already fact-checked Sommers objectively and posted it on medium.
https://medium.com/@cainejw/the-factual-feminist-a-factcheck-f5ae584f56da
Showing once and for all that, in fact, a first-wave feminist who has a PhD in Philosophy, who reads dozens and dozens of papers about behavioral studies and analyzing statistics, actually knows what she’s talking about.
Finally, we have some really, really screwy logic coming from certain writers around here. On one hand, sexism in gaming is super dangerous and definitely bleeds over into real life, and anyone who thinks this might not be true (because there studies that show this) is automatically labeled reactionary, conservative, etc.
But then again, on the other hand, when it was about violence in video games, anyone who thought that it might bleed over into real life was labeled as….well…I don’t need to type it. Colin said it best himself:
So we have a demonization of someone who would dare suggest something negative towards violence in gaming, but a complete 180 when it’s about sexism in gaming, neither of which, might I add, have a single shred of evidence to support the assertion that anything inside of a game has the power to influence the long-term behavior of someone in real life, as detailed by the medium article above.
But, hey, at least Colin isn’t a 'reactionary, in the sense that he is hostile to the scrutiny of, and implicit changes to games suggested by progressives'. Right?"
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