Game Journalism - Unfit for purpose?

[Unkindled]

That "satire" comment is vague (it could be construed as "that's not a sockpuppet account, you're just confused because someone's being satirical and you people are idiots") and the "asshat" link is circumstantial at best. As for the rest, how about another theory? You, Unkindled, made both the image and the death threats, then used an alternate account to alert Wu to the image you made on the 8th as though it were new.

My theory has exactly as much evidence as yours does. This is why we're required to prove things conclusively before making accusations.

I wasn't even referring to the asshat part first, and second, how would I predict on the 8th that she'd start a campaign against 8 chan then?

This is just getting silly. You don't have to buy it, but don't start slinging shit my way just because I don't humor these clowns like you do.

edit: Also, when you're accused of a sockpuppet account, you're gonna say a hell of a lot more than "It's called satire", if it isn't you...

She even admits its her account. "It's not a sockpuppet account as much as it's satire."

 

[227]

how would I predict on the 8th that she'd start a campaign against 8 chan then?

Easy; by sending her a meme you knew she'd tweet out, then inciting 8chan into making their own variations. You've shown zero awareness that making accusations without proof reflects poorly on the rest of us, so this kind of short-sighted behavior would be absolutely consistent. Truly, some damning revelations given the low standard of proof we apparently have.

This is just getting silly. You don't have to buy it, but don't start slinging shit my way just because I don't humor these clowns like you do.

You. Reflect. Poorly. On. Us.

There's a difference between humoring them and knowing better than to give them poorly thought out allegations they can use to paint us as conspiracy nuts.

 

[Unkindled]

So you're telling me... that you think I'd have the foresight to send her those images, persuade people on 8chan to spam them, and I'd know that this would make her start a campaign against 8 chan just so I can show this picture I made on the 8th, then send it to her on the 17th, just so I and others can say that she did it?

:rofl: Whatever, dude. I don't much give a damn what you think, so you may as well save yourself some time and direct that bullshit elsewhere.

 

[227]

Of course it's BS. That's the point. I'm showing you how your accusation relies on a similarly ridiculous series of events.

She even admits its her account. "It's not a sockpuppet account as much as it's satire."

Say you accuse me of being a secret lizard person.

Me: "I'm not a secret lizard person as much as a normal human being, but you'd have to be incredibly stupid to not understand that." That particular phrasing can be used to be patronizing and dismissive. Remember that we're dealing with world-class mental gymnastics, here, so leaving them the slightest out is a bad idea. I can PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that Patricia Hernandez left a review up for a friend's game without a disclaimer for over a year and a half. You have an interesting argument, but nothing definitive yet.

 

[Unkindled]

Of course it's BS. That's the point. I'm showing you how your accusation relies on a similarly ridiculous series of events.

.

I know your point. One problem. She already has a history of pretending to be gamergate users... so it's not at all far fetched, not to mention its highly unlikely that anyone would know she'd start a campaign against 8 chan to do this on the 8th. Making this seem even more likely. Only she'd have a good enough idea of what she would do.

Like I said, you don't have to buy it, but don't jump on my balls about it.

edit: And anyway, people thought Zoe Q doxxing herself was far fetched too. Look what happened there. And who is supposedly on such good terms with her.

 

[Garrison72]

It's a fallacy to define gamergate as a unified group with a coherent message. Journos are leveraging this misconception to label people. It's not us, them or we; it's hundreds of thousands involved in an industry having a debate.

 

[Unkindled]

Indeed. And I understand the desire to want to make us look good in the eyes of the world, but it's only your opinion that I'm somehow making everyone involved in Gamergate look bad because I think having a history of pretending to be a gamergate supporter, and having a picture made days before any of this went down as proof she's being harrassed, likely means she herself did it.

I get that the evidence isn't 100 percent, but people have been convicted with less, God knows. Who are you to tell me I'm making everyone look bad because you disagree? I hate this holier than thou thing some people are doing, telling other supporters that they're doing this or screwing up that. Seriously, cool your jets, guy. Gamergate has no leaders, so don't act like one.

And I'm not speaking for @slimgrin, or trying to bring him in. Just using his point for mine.

 

[227]

I don't have a lot of time to reply to all of that, but wanted to quickly point out that for better or worse, we are all being lumped together. It may not be fair, and it may not be accurate, but we're portrayed as a monolithic movement designed solely to harass female indie devs.

That's the reality we're dealing with, and our best weapon against it is to exist as a living contradiction to their portrayal. That's why unproven claims against female indie devs are touchy, and that's why I feel the need to subject our side to intense scrutiny despite the mountains of evidence we have in our favor. We can kick and scream that we're diverse, but they (often literally) own the media covering this, and we're not going to convince them to cover us fairly until they're overwhelmingly proven wrong.

 

[Unkindled]

Well personally, I'm not one to let other's portrayals effect how I act. I've dealt with that bullshit all my life because of my biracial status, and I've learned to be myself, despite what others expect me to act like, or despite that being myself means sometimes I play into what others expect. I am myself, and always will be regardless of what anyone says, or what anyone thinks.

And because of that, I don't give two shits what anyone thinks my conclusions say about me. They can shove it up their ass and be on their merry way. If gamergate says they're diverse, then they're diverse. And they are. They'll keep on being what they are regardless of what the media portrays, and I don't think we should play nice and humor this BS just because others may or may not look poorly on Gamergate supporters for it. Just because the media isn't convinced, doesn't mean we should conform to anything to get them to like us. That's the same thinking that sprouted this appeasement crap:

https://twitter.com/OathAlliance/status/523231310626557952

I say the evidence is enough to conclude she did it herself, based on her history and who she associates with, and no one has the right to tell me or anyone else that agrees that we're making Gamergate look bad. Anyone that does can piss off the far end of my mead spigot. As long as I'm not harassing anyone, my one opinion isn't doing any harm. I'm not at all the only one passing that info and concluding she did it herself anyway.

edit: Gamergate's been getting along really well lately, and that is in spite of the media's portrayal of its supporters.

 

[soldiergeralt]

i feel once the fbi gets involved, there's going to be a lot of ips traced to internet cafes in san francisco

I don't have a lot of time to reply to all of that, but wanted to quickly point out that for better or worse, we are all being lumped together. It may not be fair, and it may not be accurate, but we're portrayed as a monolithic movement designed solely to harass female indie devs.

That's the reality we're dealing with, and our best weapon against it is to exist as a living contradiction to their portrayal. That's why unproven claims against female indie devs are touchy, and that's why I feel the need to subject our side to intense scrutiny despite the mountains of evidence we have in our favor. We can kick and scream that we're diverse, but they (often literally) own the media covering this, and we're not going to convince them to cover us fairly until they're overwhelmingly proven wrong.

gamergate people are already contradicting their portrayals, but you do realize 99 percent of the stuff they say about people in gamergate is complete fabrication, right? it doesn't matter how you want to present yourself to the enemy. he's still not going to be your friend

 

[227]

I updated my post about GG's history to include some recent stuff, fix a few dates, and include the Gone Home "not a game" game journalist uproar from February of this year. The trail's gone cold by now, but let me know if any of you find evidence that Steam blocked the tag as a direct result of game websites putting out their whiny articles about it.

gamergate people are already contradicting their portrayals, but you do realize 99 percent of the stuff they say about people in gamergate is complete fabrication, right? it doesn't matter how you want to present yourself to the enemy. he's still not going to be your friend

Of course. Still, there are parties that haven't made up their minds or who can still be dissuaded from viewing gamers as a hate group despite their initial impressions after reading those slanted articles, and winning them over is the key to succeeding. More people = more legitimacy = fewer lies journos can get away with = better journalism.

WHICH IS WHY YOU JAGOFFS HAVE TO BE CLASSY. DO IT FOR THE TEAM.

 

[HellKnightX88]

WHICH IS WHY YOU JAGOFFS HAVE TO BE CLASSY. DO IT FOR THE TEAM.

And this I agree with. We have to be rational, respectful and civil, let them fling the shit because it only makes them looks more insecure and reflects badly on their side of the argument. Lets not do the same thing we didn't get this far by throwing temper tantrums... lets not start now.

Note: the above isn't directed at anyone in particular, just stating my views on this.

 

[gregski]

So, October 17th and another strange coincidence in the gaming press happens:

On Gamergate: A letter from editor(Polygon)

An important message to our users regarding online harassment(Gamespot)

Letter From the Editor(GIant Bomb)

We cannot let this become gaming culture

All articles seem to spin the same narrative:

Spoiler

"Yeah, sure, GamerGate is supposedly about journalistic ethics but there is no problem with that to begin with. THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE HARASSMENT, DEATH & MASS MURDER THREATS, MISOGYNY, BULLYING etc etc etc".

 

[sidspyker]

Apparently this is big, I haven't read it myself as of yet
http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/10/gamergate-destructoid-corruption-and-ruined-careers/

 

[HellKnightX88]

@gregski
Oh, would you look at that, all on the same day. Shocking! Something's off though, where's Kotaku's "guys, guys! harassment is bad, yeah?" article? Are they swimming in so much shit right now that they can't write about this, hmmm?

They're fools if they think these articles will make it any better because it just further proves that they're refusing to talk about about the real issue... not the elephant in the room, more like the huge ass blue whale in the room! It's an even more pitiful attempt than the "gamers are dead" articles.

"We condemn harassment!" Good! And who doesn't? GG certainly does. We raised over 13000 dollars for an anti-bullying organization in just 2 days after the 2 gawker guys made fun of victims of bullying.

@sidspyker
I'm reading through it right now... can't say it surprises me but on the flip side it's very good that people come out to speak about these abuses of power and corruption.

 

[Mataresa]

Ironic that these kind of articles always come out on the exact same day. They could at least try to hide there collaboration and attempt at opinionmaking. Aren't they thus showing us, that they are all collaborating to create a common narrative to try to influence us? Or a I misreading that?

 

[227]

http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/10/gamergate-destructoid-corruption-and-ruined-careers/

Anyone wanting back story to this should explore this thread: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/project_zomboid_thomas_was_alone_others_trying_to_fund_a_developers_surgery/page1

It's way uglier than the link makes it sound at first. We're talking blackmail, a live-streamed suicide attempt, deleted posts from Destructoid staff to set up Allistair's firing in a more PR-friendly way, and a million other things. I'm blown away that I forgot to add that whole saga to my archive.

 

[Unkindled]

WHICH IS WHY YOU JAGOFFS HAVE TO BE CLASSY. DO IT FOR THE TEAM.

Being classy doesn't mean appeasing to their crap. Only time I got unclassy was when you decided you'd be the decision maker on what Gamergate supporters should and shouldn't believe is true, which is bull. Shit.

I agree. You jagoffs be classy, by not acting high and mighty like them. I have more than enough reason to believe she did it as I showed. Even if you disagree, NOTHING about what I said makes us seem like a hate group. If anyone thinks otherwise, they can piss off. And if a journalist sees what I said and calls me out, well I'm a grown ass man and I can defend and speak for myself.

edit: And I know what I just said wasn't civil, but well, what you said really pisses me off, so. Like I said, unless I'm harassing someone, you need to keep all that crap to yourself. I don't appreciate it, I don't want to hear it, and you are no one to tell me that what I concluded makes me bad for Gamergate. That's quite a few people you just brushed over and dismissed in a general fashion. Just because you don't agree. Repeating myself a lot here, but apparently you didn't get the message with my last post. Stop acting like our nanny.

 

[HellKnightX88]

Anyone wanting back story to this should explore this thread: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/project_zomboid_thomas_was_alone_others_trying_to_fund_a_developers_surgery/page1

It's way uglier than the link makes it sound at first. We're talking blackmail, a live-streamed suicide attempt, deleted posts from Destructoid staff to set up Allistair's firing in a more PR-friendly way, and a million other things. I'm blown away that I forgot to add that whole saga to my archive.

Could you please give a TLDR of that link you posted? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the whole thing and how it relates to Destructoid crap.

 

[grregg]

Could you please give a TLDR of that link you posted? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the whole thing and how it relates to Destructoid crap.

See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13688172660A82580100 for a summary.